kliq

I feel like this board would explode.

You really can't look at hockey this way. Any team can beat any other team on any given night.

When I first read this thread title, my initial thoughts were "here we go again, another poster about to go on a rant spouting out hyperbole" but after reading what you wrote, I think you made a lot of good points. Here are my thoughts: 1) I agree with this. For whatever reason they cannot clear the puck out of the zone, and when they are able to rush into the opposing zone, they do continue to dump and chase quite often which just results in giving the puck up. I do not get why they continue to do this, I cant see this being anything but a coaching issue. 2) I agree with this as well, chemistry is definitely a problem. 3) This I disagree with. When everyone is healthy I think this is one of out strong suits, but with AA and Helm both out I admit we look like a much slower team 4) I dont think we are great here, but I dont think we are awful. It would be interesting to see the stats. 5) I agree with this as well, especially on the PK. So often I am thinking to myself 5 on 5 "are we on the PK? Where is the pressure?" 6) This is probably our worst trait, I think we may lead the league in 3rd period, final 2min breakdowns. 7) Agreed 8) This I disagree with. Our PP ranks 17th in the league at 15.9%, that's not inept, its average. I also completely agree with your last thought. We don't have elite talent, but we are not as bad as we are playing as we do have a very deep team. I think our issue is either coaching, or team chemistry which can be argued is a result of bad coaching.

That sucked, I was really curious to see if that Helm/Nyquist/Vanek line could have kept it going, but then Blashill split them up and Vanek got injured anyways. They really seemed to click. That's the thing with lines, its all about chemistry.

Here is my question though, who did we not get in UFA that was "elite" that we were not able to sign because of those deals? Who was "maximum worth" in UFA that we did not get because of cap issues? David Backes? Milan Lucic? Matt Niskanen? Paul Stasny? We did make a pitch for Matt Niskanen, but "cap issues" were not why we didn't land him. Sometimes players just want to play somewhere else (ie. Suter). I am not saying those deals are not hurting us at all, but I haven't seen a specific circumstance where the correct narrative was "Oh shoot, we could have signed player X if we had the cap room" unless player X was another mid level player which would be no different then what we have been doing. The only thing these mid level players have done is caused us to lose Nestrasil and Pulkkinen. If you want to make the argument that they are taking spots from guys like Mantha, Frk etc. sure I see that, but those guys are not elite at this point, and that is not our biggest problem. The one time in years that an elite player was about to become available in UFA (Stamkos) Holland made sure there was space. Stamkos didn't stay in TB because we couldn't afford him due to the cap. In 2016 UFA has become an avenue for mid level guys to be overpaid in either total dollars or term (ie. Niesen). Elite talent just doesn't hit free agency anymore for whatever reason. Have these contracts hurt us in regards to trades? I dont think so. If Holland had an opportunity to get a guy like Trouba for a reasonable return (ie. not Larkin), he would not have a hard time shedding salary. You can trade a guy like Tatar or Nyquist for picks if you want. Our issues are what I stated earlier, our elite/high end talent regressed before our kids were able to step in and replace them. Its simple. And yes, not drafting top 5 does make it harder to land franchise players. Again, please do not misinterpret this as me saying that all the contracts given to mid range players are great or not an issue at all. What I am saying is they are not the reason we are not elite right now. In 4 years from now when players like Larkin or Mantha are due for their next contract, that is when these contracts COULD be an issue.

Ignore him, he's just trolling. Think of it like you are at dinner and adults are speaking, and then a 6 year old starts to share their thoughts and everyone looks, pauses, then just continues the conversation. To your actual point, I don/t think Blashill is a terrible coach, but I don't think at the NHL he is a good coach either. He has done well at every level he has every coached, and he's likely going to take time to adjust to the NHL. If coaching in the NHL was easy, anyone could do it. The question becomes, do the Wings want to wait and let him grow as a coach here if it is felt that he has a high ceiling? OR do they need immediate results, and this is not our guy. The answer....I have no clue and I am glad I am not Ken Holland lol.

Its so true. I would love to see stats on how many goals we have allowed in the last 2 years in the final 2 min of a game when tied or up by one. I feel we are the worst in the league. Our D is dreadful at clearing the puck. I want to add as I may sound a bit unfair about E. When he has the puck, yes I cringe, but I feel when he doesn't have the puck, he is one of our best. He definitely has his strengths. If he was on the 3rd pairing making 1.2 mil per year and 26 years old, I don't think anyone would talk poorly of him. He's a victim of his contract.

My issue with E is in his own end, anytime he has the puck on his stick I cringe as I cant even count how many times he has tried to dump the puck out only to pass it right to the point man, or even worse right in front of net. With that being said, I think who's he's paired with and when he plays is vital in in his success and I 100% agree with what you said. Putting him on 3rd pairing with Kronwall would be a very good fit. Second pairing with Marchenko, needs to end. Ya it sucks seeing Smith out and E in.

The thing is, I think all the teams that are very good are going to have identical issues as us down the road. Look at Chicago, until 2023 both Toews and Kane will have Caphits of 10.5mil, Seabrook 6.875, and Keith 5.538. They are bound to have similar issues unless all 4 of these guys can keep up there level of play for another 7 years, and if they do, will Chicago land any elite players in the process? Probably not. I think the NHL has been setup to be more cyclical then ever, and unfortunately we are on the down turn (or just starting the up turn depending on your thoughts of our kids) of our cycle. Agreed with drafting, for as good as Holland has been finding good players deep in the draft, he has been awful in the first round prior between the Kronwall and Mantha picks. I guess my point is that no GM can keep their team elite forever, but we had a damn good run between 1992 - 2011 (give or take a year or so on each end).

I'll be the first to admit, there are exceptions and outliers to every rule.

In places like Las Vegas.....probably not.

See we are talking about two different things, you are talking about Detroit's cap situation as whole, I am talking about Helm's contract in a bubble. I even said that in my post, so to counter me with "how the world works" is redundant as that was not the context in which I was even speaking. Also, the system you talk about that Holland should replicate only works when you have elite talent to compliment with the young talent with (ie. Crosby/Markin/Letang, Toews/Kane/Keith/Seabrook, or Kopitar/DD etc. We cannot mimic them, because at the moment we dont have elite talent like them.

I was there in person, with AA and Helm being out it really made us look a lot slower. Those two are both extremely important pieces to this team and I hope they get back soon. I didnt notice Nyquist play a bad game, was there something he did that maybe didnt come across live, but did on TV? A few notes, I liked the way the Z/Nyquist/Mantha line looked, I couldn't believe how nice of a shot Mantha has. This kid need to stay up with the big club. Everytime E touches the puck I cringe, Our D pretty much just look like they are all playing above their heads. I hate when people say all of our D sucks, because that is simply not true. Individually, we have good (not elite) D, but we lack a #1 and #2. Think about it like this, lets say we had Keith and Seabrook as our top pair, then if you had DD/Green on second pair, and Sproul/Smith or even Marchenko/XO on the third pairing and all of a sudden our D becomes one of the best in the league. Our old top pairing of Kronwall and E regressing to a point where they are 3rd pairing guys who are paid like first pairing guys has really really hurt us as nobody has stepped up in that role. I think this is pretty much the biggest problem with this team. Our former elite/upper end talent of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall regressed before our kids have been able to step up and replace them. Now we are in a position where our top guys are no longer top guys or in the case of Datsyuk gone, and our young guys are not there yet. I wish Larkin, AA, and Mantha were good enough to play top line together and produce like a #1 line, but they are not there yet. This is why it frustrates me when people are so hard on guys like DD, Tatar, Nyquist, Abby, Helm etc. These guys are not top tier guys, but because of the regression of others, they are asked to play like it and are failing. Nyquist should probably not be on a first line, but on this team he has to. DD should not be a #1 D man, but on this team he has to. When you put guys in roles where they are playing over there heads, they are going to appear bad however this does not mean they are bad players. This teams needs some top tier talent, unfortunately with the system in place now we are all going to have to wait. The growth of our kids, and the ability of Holland to find a #1 D man is HUGE and will dictate our future. I dont even know who is to "blame" for this, if anything I think this is just a part of the cyclical nature of sports.

I'm basing it off of what my accountant has told me who I have a lot of trust in and respect for due to her track record, financial advisers, and research I have done. I didn't just pull a number out of my ass. If you look at my posting history I hope it proves that I am not someone who just throws false numbers or claims out there. A number like this can change depending on the industry, but as a general rule of thumb 50% is typically the max number. Of course it can be less, no business would complain about payroll being too small if gross sales and net profit are high, I didn't mean to insinuate that payroll cant be smaller then 50%, my post was about it exceeding 50% so I agree with half of what you said. Personally I run a business where gross sales are contingent on payroll, so if our payroll is down, gross sales are down. The higher our payroll, the higher our net profit, though our model is setup where 50% will not be exceeded. Out of curiosity, do you run or work for a business where this is incorrect? I don't personally know of a business model where payroll should be greater then 50%, but I admit that it could exist.

Once LV arrives, you will have 4 divisions with 8, 8, 8, and 7 respectively, I can't see them not evening it up. Another team is coming. There is plenty of talent to make room for 1 more team.

Going to the game tonight and looking forward to it! I really like this top 6, curious to see what mantha can do playing with gus and z.

Oh ok, I didnt know the context which is my bad.

If Z goes on LTIR in a couple years, his contract will be very tradeable. To a floor team he could be a 6mil cap-hit while his actual salary would be 1mil. This is the reason why Marc Savard was traded to Florida. Franzen will not be bad either. He has a caphit of 4 mil, but actual salary in 2018 is 2mil, 2019 is 1 mil, and 2020 is 1mil. Kronwall is a tougher sell. His caphit is 4.75, but actual payout is 3.5 and 1.75 over the next 2 years. he's probably staying here.

What is the max cap relief using LTIR? With him and Franzen that is close to 8.5 million. Ether way, I see Holland trading Franzen at some point ala Pronger.

I just read he's playing on the second line with Nielsen and Larkin. Mantha was bumped up to the first with Z and Gus.

Of course those two are going to make his numbers look much better then if he was still here playing with Miller and Glendening, I dont think anyone things of him as a top 10 goal scorer, but he was put in a role and is playing extremely well in that role, you can't take that away from him. I always liked Eaves and its nice to see him succeeding.

I don't know about that, all it tells me is that he is not one of the best 12 or 14 Swedish forwards in the world, it doesn't mean he isn't a solid second liner, or a very good third liner. Nobody is calling Nyquist an elite talent.

No I get it, at any point in the season if you are in the playoffs you have a higher percentage of making it, and if you are not in the playoffs you have a higher percentage of not getting in, but my point is November is too early to give up as there is still a lot of time left and I dont think November specifically has any special meaning. I'm sure if you charted it, the majority of the playoff teams were sitting in a playoff spot for the majority of the season. Either way, I don't believe the Wings are close to as bad as some people make them out to be, but please don't mistaken that with me saying they are great. I have always said that this year they are an average team.I think they have a bright future, but IMO the future isn't now. I still see us landing in the wild card this year or MAYBE getting 3rd in the division but with Montreal's resurgence I have a hard time seeing that.

That just doesn't sound right. I can tell you this, I remember last year at American Thanksgiving Tampa Bay and Anaheim were out of the playoffs and I think Minnesota and Detroit were as well. 2 years ago, Ottawa was out pretty much the entire season until they cliched in like the final week (maybe even day) of the season and that is just off the top of my head. This is a league of parity and most teams are separated by only a handful of points. Where you are in November when the season ends in April means nothing.

Based on the goals put forth my this team, wayyyy to early to even consider that. At the end of the day, they are 4 points out of a playoff spot. String together a 4 game winning streak and you are right back in the hunt. I would be shocked if this team gave up on the streak if they still had a chance. I could see them firing Blashill before I could see them doing a fire sale.