kliq

I find it funny that some people attribute any success Holland has to those around him, however any bad decisions are solely placed on him. Got to love being a GM in the NHL, you will never please everyone. As far as the '89 draft goes, yes it gave the Wings Vladdy, Lidstrom, and Fedorov, and yes of course it was a big part in the future success of the franchise, but only 2 of them were there in 1998 and 2002, and one in 2008 (well I guess 2 if you count Drake lol). To say all of his success is based on that draft is just wrong. Using that logic to dismiss Holland's part in the 2008 cup win could pretty much dismiss every GM's part in any cup win ever as most teams have a player that is good that was there before the GM got there.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/ales-hemsky-boards-jonathan-ericsson--discipline-coming---video-012513221.html

If Franzen never plays again which I'm guessing is the case, his salary is off the books. If Howard keeps playing like a top tier goalie, I dont think they will have a problem moving him at all. Agreed though that 7 years is a long time, unless he takes a lower salary per year.

If its closer to 4 then 5, I am ok with it. Longer then I was hoping for, but worth it if he is a top 3 forward for us.

I'm not going to say you dont make a good point Frank...you do. Like I said, I like Helm as much as anyone, but its a big contract for a guy playing on the 4th line who does have some red flags. Gritty players have a tendency of declining in their 30's. It wasn't that long ago that Cleary was everybody's darling. If he signs for 2mil/year, I would do it in a heart beat. 4 mil for 4 years, that worries me and seems like bad cap management.

As much as I love Helm, all signs point towards letting him walk. Pre cap era, I would say resign him, post cap is a different story. He is close to 30 with an injury history, he will likely get more then the 2.1 mil cap hit that he has right now, we have a ton of young forwards ready to come up/re-sign, and we currently are playing him on the 4th line. You just don't pay a 4th liner close to 3 million/year anymore. Now, if he is willing to sign say a 3 year, 6 million deal I would do it, but I dont see that happening.

Was at the game tonight, probably the most exiting 1-0 game I have ever seen in person! Kindl really impressed me, while he didn't show up on the score sheet, he definitely helps generate offense which is something we need from a d-man. We looked good, but something is just not clicking. I feel like we are close though. I cant even count how many times we make a pass but it either bounces over a stick, is just wide, hits a skate, hits a stick etc.

Does anyone know what time the ceramony starts?

Its pointless, you say "AA & Mantha should not be on the 4th line, MIller is a better fit there in 2015" he hears "Miller is better then Mantha and AA, I am in love with him as a player". He's either trolling, or just doesn't get it. Would you really want to get rid of Nyquist for a rental? If the trade guaranteed that Kopitar would resign that would be one thing, but it doesn't.

When you say things like this, it makes you sound 12 years old. If you don't agree with people that's fine, but act mature about it. Again, the reason why people (myself included) don't want to see AA on the 4th line in a permanent role is because people don't want to see him regress in his development. The perfect example of this is Jurco. In retrospect, he should have played in the AHL last year on the top line, as coming here and playing in a chequing role with the Wings hurt his development. I know he got his chances on the third line, but when that didnt work he was sent down to the 4th. In a video game, putting your most talented offensive players in works. In real life there are many more variables involved.

Well we currently have Andersson on the 3rd the line, so as long as he is getting minutes and playing with good players I am ok with this!

My guess is that we sign a veteran goalie as I dont see us going with two kids. Someone like James Reimer. I could actually see it being him if some team doesnt throw stupid money at him.

Your hypocrisy amazes me Frank. When someone says anything good about Ken Holland, you call them “fanboys”, yet you are the one who spouts off that Babcock is the best coach in the world every single chance you get. I could probably look at your posting history and find 10 posts from the last month alone. If someone makes a valid point against Babcock, rather than acknowledge or even debate the point, you simply call the people making the point “the anti-Babcock” crowd. You take the argument to the extreme and dismiss/distort what is actually being said. There have been alot of great points made in this thread. I do believe that if Babcock was the greatest, he should be getting more out of TO then he is. What TO’s performance is telling me, is that while he is good, he is not to the level some people think.

I think you are missing my point. I am not saying that Babcock is bad coach, in fact I think he is a great coach. What I am saying is that I do not think he is the best in the world no questions asked. Winning the gold medals is an accopplishment, but I dont think it should be in the critera when comparing him to other coaches due to the fact that these other coaches are not being given a shot to do the same thing. Like Kip said, just because the powers that be on team canada think he is the best, doesnt mean that he is the best, it's just the opinion of a few people. You said "Every Canadian Olympic team is stacked but they don't always win, why is that?" Since 2002 Canada has won EVERY gold medal other then 2006. If anything this reinforces my point that its due to the stacked roster, not soley coaching. 2002: Canada won Gold 2004 (World Cup): Canada won Gold 2006: Canada Lost 2010: Canada won Gold 2014: Canada won Gold Again, Babcock is a good coach, just not the best in the world no questions asked.

Never once did I say he was any of the things in bold. Out of all the accolades you listed, the only one that matters is the cup. I hate when people use the gold medals when doing a comparison to other coaches. How many other coaches are given an opportunity to win a gold medal with a team that has a chance? The answer at best is 5 other coaches every 4 years. Add in the fact that his roster was stacked, not fair to compare. World Cup Champion? I assume you mean World Championships? If so, winning that tournament does not make you best in the world. Babcock is a great coach, but to say he is without a doubt the best coach in the world is just wrong. He's one of the best. Just because certain posters feel the need to say it every post, doesn't make it true. I agree with everything you just said Kip.

I believe Mike Babcock is a very good coach, one of the best in the league in fact. I will admit, I wanted him to stay and I was extremely disappointed when he left. However, some around here put him on a pedestal and claim is the best in the world no questions asked, and as soon as anyone says otherwise they make it sound like you are turning on him. You cant put this entire start on him as everyone knows the Leafs are a mess, but at the same time if he was the best in the world by a mile like some say, you would think that he could be doing a bit better. The guy is overrated, but not because he isn't good, it's because of the way people talk about him. If I had to summarize his career, I think Babcock did something special in '03 with the Ducks, but that was also during a time where obstruction played a huge part in the game, and he had a goalie that quite possibly had the best playoffs any goalie had ever had. With the Wings, he always had good players in front of him. You can say what you want about 2012-2015, but its not like he set the world on fire and even though we weren't the Wings of old, we still had a plethora of talent. As far as the Olympics go, while I do give him credit, that should in no way define him. The roster he has was truly amazing and most good coaches should be able to win with it. This is the biggest test of Babcock's career, and so far he is not doing well. It's very early and he does have a pretty crappy roster, but I have seen plenty of good coaches do extremely well with crappy rosters. If Babcock is truly "the best in the world" the Leafs should get better then what they are right now. *Cue Living Color: Cult of Personality*

It actually is truculence, the misconception is that truculence is a good thing. With the definition below, Bertuzzi on Moore, McSorley on Brashear, Weber on Zetterberg etc are all truculent acts. I'm all for guys sticking up for a teammate, but guys just wanting to hurt people because of impulse control issues, is not something I am a fan of. adjective adjective: truculent eager or quick to argue or fight; aggressively defiant.

I was actually going to reference that one as well.

Well that's embarrassing, I know that. I dont know what I was thinking. I take back the first part of what I said then. Still stand by the second.

I do find it funny how this is "disgusting" but when guys randomly punch someone in the head (ie. Benn On Zetterberg) nobody cares.

I don’t see this happening, at least not now. First of all, there is a strong change that Det and Win will be in competition this year over the wildcard. If Win wanted to trade him, I'm sure their first choice would be a team in the West. Secondly, they are in a similar situation as us, I don’t see them unloading as they want to make a run as well. Maybe if come January they are out of it and we are in it, then it will be a different story.

Kind of hard to evaluate that with just a few seconds of video. Yes he did it, but we have no idea what happened prior.

Exactly. Non Troll: "Wings offense struggling, what do we do!" Troll: "Breaking News! Wings defeated by local high school JV team!"

Not taking away from your point, but I dont even think Johnson was drafted. I think Stevie signed him as a UFA similar to the way we signed DD.

I thought you addressed this in another thread. It doesn't make sense to trade a player with Mantha's potential for a rental.