kliq

No worries.

I am not sure why some people are so mad at Babcock, the guy is doing nothing wrong. All he is doing is giving teams an opportunity to speak with him. I can pretty much guarantee that 9/10 people that post on LGW would be willing to hear an offer from a rival company (regardless of what job you do) if your current employer had absolutely no issue with it, and there was a ton of interest in you from other companies. He is not acting cocky, he does not sound like he is lying to the the fans. He says he is exploring his options, and that's what he is doing.

Who is the second Samuelsson that played D? We had Ulf for a hiccup. but I dont remember anyone else. I assume you are not talking about Mikael, as he was a forward.

To be honest, I didn't see enough of Weiss on Florida to agree or disagree with you. What I do remember, is him being a very good player on Plymouth, getting drafted 4th overall, being their best player with Horton for years, and being the epitome of consistency before his wrist injury. The talk on him, was that we was a below average first line center, but that he would be an elite second line center. I get your point, similar to Lang on Wsh or Hudler this year on Cgy, There could be a valid point there, but I dont think you can simply assess a player based on points (I assume you are because you said "lack of production" when referencing Vermette). There are so many variables involved here, lack of production on a new team could be because on your old team you were given a TON of opportunity like you said, it could mean you are being given a different role from your new coach, it could be lack of chemistry with your new line mates, it could be that you are a player that works well in system A, but poorly in system B. Point is, unless you watch every Weiss game, you really don't know. I personally think Weiss's poor play is because he suffered a really bad abdominal injury and never re-gained his form. Plus, I think there is an issue with him and either Babs himself or Bab's system. I get your point though, you didn't like the signing. I guess my point, is that the people that liked it were not "idiots".

I would disagree, I think alot of the media here in Canada are pretty educated, I really enjoy listening to Bob McKenzie. From what I remember, all of them were calling Weiss a great signing. If you are referring to the link I posted, that was just the first that came up in my Google search lol. No offense taken, my point was that Weiss was considered a big free agent at the time, and that most of the experts ranked him right up there. Not sure what you mean by "considered number 1" though.

The year we signed Weiss, he was considered a top free agent. Here is an example of an article ranking him the #4 forward: http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/free-agents/2013-top-30-nhl-free-agents/ UFA is not what it used to be. Its pretty much either guys on the downside of their career asking for big money they are not worth anymore, slightly above average to below average players asking for money that they are not worth. Last year Paul Stasny was the #1 UFA forward, I think that says it all right there. The key now a days is drafting well, making the right trade if its out there, and maybe making a signing or two if the right player comes around at the right price.

Dont want Green, past his prime and injury prone. Maybe in the pre-cap era, but not now.

It sounds like Holland said he will match any offer, the only way to get Holland to match a high offer is to get a high offer.

Agreed

This is all subjective, you cannot be proved right or wrong. IMO, when you consider that there are 30 teams with 6 regular d-man which means 180 d-mean in the league. Being a #1 means you are good enough to be the best on a team (ie. top 30). Being top 30 out of 180 (or more if you count guys in the press box/minors) is pretty damn good. I'm not going to touch "elite", had that argument, not care enough to have it again.

If we get a legit #2 guy, our D looks like this: Kronwall - New Guy DD - Qunicey Eriksson - Marchenko or Smith Erikkson would be an elite 3rd pairing guy, he just miscast. If this new guy can help Kronwall, I think Kronwall will prove to most he is a #1.

That is weird.....I'm surprised Babs would do this if he is actually leaving. Why would he want the team he is going to, to lose a draft pick just to talk to him early. Obviously not a make or break move, but does slightly hurt his knew team. Maybe this is just to assess his market value.

Whenever you take over for one of the greatest of all time, its extremely hard to gain full acceptance from the fan base. Because he is not LIdstrom, he will always be criticized. He is a true #1.

My comment was in reference to you saying "Not sure why he'd want to stay" (see below). I was simply telling you what the reasons would be. If I indicated that my opinion in some way effected Babcock, that was not my intention lol. I am fully aware that what I think is irrelevant to him..

I guess it all depends on how you view our kids. If you are a fan of Nyquist, Tatar, Juroco, Mrazek, Sproul, Ouelette, Marchenko, DD, Smith, AA, Pulkinen, Mantha, Larkin etc.its obvious why he would want to come back. If you think these kids are nothing special, then I see why people think he wouldn't. Personally, I'm excited for our future.

I dont know why a team would trade for him when they can just sign him when his contract expires. Teams do that with UFA's because it gives them exclusive negotiation rights. Without that, a trade is pointless.

Classy move, stopping Babs from doing this would just delay the inevitable. Hopefully this just shows him even more then he already knows the class of this organization.

Agreed, but the last thing Toronto wants to do is help us. The may trade us Pheneuf as they need to unload his contract, but I dont see them trading JVR to us unless its a part of a giant blockbuster with Pheneuf and a ton of our prospects.

I completely agree, a rule like that would make things worse. If a player has a minor conussion, the last thing they would want to do is tell anyone as that would then count on their "concussion card". Plus, like you pretty much said. One severe concussion can be worse then 5 minor consussion, its completely situation and you cant just put a number on what is "too much". The guys suing are not the same guys who are playing through them now. All the lawsuits (as far as I know) are about the NHL not making the players aware of the long term ramifications of concussion. They are doing that now, so the current crop of NHL players would not be able to launch that suit. What the current players could possibly sue for is the NHL allowing aspects of the game that cause concussion, when they are not necessities to the game (ie. Kronwall hit, fighting, random punches to the head (Benn/Zetterberg)). That is why I think fighting is being fazed out, and that is why I think big hits are being fazed out. Its only a matter of time until cheap shots to the head are fazed out as well.

6 years???? I would say the re-build started in 2013, you could even argue 2014. What about 2009 was a re-build?

No it makes sense, you just dont agree with me because it goes against your original point. Message board aside (I agree that is irrelevant), Weiss was a good signing on paper as he filled a pressing need in a 2nd line center. Sometimes a person does everything right, but things go wrong. What happened was extremely fluky, I know people will talk about Weiss's injury on Florida but that was a wrist injury, the injury on Detroit was completely unrelated. There is no way Holland could have saw that coming. The same injury could happen to Tyler Seguin tomorrow, does that mean we should all "blame" Nill for the Seguin trade....of course not. Its hockey, fluke injuries happen. Now if Holland gave a long term deal high cap hit to a 37 year old and an injury like that happened, I would agree with you. If the player had a reoccurring injury, I would agree with you. This is neither of those. I also disagree in Holland being wrong more then he is right. The guy has done an amazing job in drafting, which in today's NHL is the most important aspect of being a GM. Not to mention, when your biggest mistakes are signing Tootoo, Sammy etc. your a pretty damn good GM! We're re-building, accept it. Most re-building teams dont even make the playoffs, we took the champs to game 7 two years ago and took the possible champs to game 7 this year. We are not as bad as people are making us out to be, and we are in a time where our roster cant have 10 HOF players on it.

Really? I don't think people are critical of Yzerman at all. The only real criticisms if you can even call them that, are that when people appoint him as "a great GM" people say "he hasn't done anything yet".

I would take Razor over Lucic any day lol!

Hindsight is always 20/20. I'm not going to "blame" Holland for making a UFA signing that at the time seemed like a a great signing that 90% of us would have made. Was it a bad signing....of course it was in retrospect.

Screw Lucic, I dont want him. I would rather lose then have him on our team. He just comes across like a bad guy. I would love to have a guy with grit on our team, but not him. Not to mention, IMO the guy is not as tough as he makes himself out to be. Anytime I have seen him play (which I admit is not much) he goes after guys weaker then him.