kliq

If Babcock leaves my top two choices are Blashill because he knows the kids and has won with them, or Paul McLean because he knows our system and has proven to be a good coach in the NHL.

- I would like to see all of our RFA's re-signed with maybe the exception of Andersson. - Cleary to retire (though I think he has one year left on that hand shake deal with Holland a couple years ago). - Franzen to retire (again, not because its better for us, but because I want the guy to be able to enjoy the rest of his life) - Cole/Zidlicky gone - A top 2 D-man to push E down to the 3rd pairing - Weiss traded - Kindl traded - Smith........traded if it means a good return, but I wouldnt get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him - Holland/Bacbcock still with the team - Not sure what I want to do in goal. Mrazek as the guy for the entire season scares me, but Jimmy has too big of a cap hit to be the backup. I guess I would only get rid of Jimmy if it got us a return in a guy like Thornton. - An elite #2 centre as long as it doesnt cost us our future - NOT to stray from the re-build, please do not trade any of Mantha, Larkin, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, AA, or Sproul......Marchenko, Oulette, or Jurco ONLY if it brought a big piece back that would be here for a long time, but I would still rather keep them.

If we traded Howard, here is a list of UFA goaltenders that could come in and be the backup: (I erased some of starters & 3rd/4th string guys) http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2014/11/25/2015-nhl-free-agents-unrestricted-goaltenders/ Viktor Fasth Karri Ramo Michal Neuvirth Josh Harding Jonas Gustavsson Peter Budaj Jhonas Enroth Thomas Greiss Ray Emery Dan Ellis Jason LaBarbera Curtis McElhinney Richard Bachman Scott Clemmensen Cam Talbot Anders Lindback

I didnt think about that, I like that idea! Jonathan Cheechoo scored over 50 on a line with Thornton, that could be an awesome line!

I actually would really like this, but Thornton wont leave California. If it did happen, could you imagine, Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Abby & Tatar-Thornton-Nyquist, then with Sheahan-Jurco-Helm thats 2 solid lines.

Babcock

People don't understand/accept that we are going through a re-build. Pretty much every elite team in today's NHL was horrible at a point. In our case, horrible is losing in the first round of the playoffs. While it completely sucks and its frustrating to see us lose, you have to see the big picture.

My apologies if this was posted elsewhere and I missed it. My condolences to his family and friends. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/27/marcel-pronovost-death-nhl/26457745/

Those players are not really relevant to this conversation as Lidstrom retired in 2012, these players were not available until 2014. If you are going to bring them up, IMO none of them would have been a suitable replacement for Lidstrom. Erhoff has had a horrible season this year, Niskansen was not worth the contract he was given, and Myers required trading ManthaI....right? I dont want any of those guys, and especially Myers who I read is overrated for possibly our biggest prospect. I cant disagree with you, but I think this is alot easier written then done. I think when any team loses a franchise player, they are going to struggle replacing him. Holland did try the immediate fix in Suter (which I agree with your assessment on) but when that didnt work, he went into re-build mode and stock piled young D, and signed some vets to hold the fort until the young guys were ready. The re-build part is what which I believe frustrates people as Wings fans are conditioned to "WIN NOW". If we didn't have the depth of prospects that we have, I would be more incline to blame Holland for this. Think of the following with 2012 eyes; you have DD, Smith, and Kindl, then in 2011 you draft Sproul, Marchenko, and Oulette (not a coincidence). This was the plan in replacing Lidstrom.....re-build the D.

I'm guessing the pairings tonight go DD-Quincey Ericcson-Marchenko Zidlicky-Smith

This is a joke! I am all for player safety and enforcement of suspensions on head shots, but not when its implemented selectively. This one makes me really mad because I think it is going to end our season. I just hope that our other D step up and play the game of their career!

Your thread is called "At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?", this title alone insinuates that you believe he either deserves blame now, or soon. Your statements in bold just confirm this, which is fine as you are entitled to your opinion, but you cant be upset that people are defending Holland when this thread was made as a criticism towards him. I'm also surprised that you dont think Holland gets any blame. In the summer there was literally a thread about why he should be fired. Of course Holland has made mistakes, no GM is perfect. I don't even think Holland himself would say he makes no mistakes, but the reason why some people are so firmly behind him IMO is because he makes many more good decisions then bad decisions. Lidstrom was the greatest defenseman of the modern era, you cant just replace him. Teams aren't trading away norris caliber d-men, the only real option of a "replacement" in free agency was Suter. Holland did make him one hell of an offer (one that would probably have bit him in the ass down the road) but Suter decided to play on a team with his friend that was close to home. You cant put this on Holland. As far as Weber goes, sure I would love to have him on this team, but that was never going to happen. And for the record, reports show that Holland did try to go after Weber. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/07/red_wings_pursued_defenseman_s.html

Some people have a philosophy that making moves makes you a good GM. Personally, I feel that its all about making the right moves, and sometimes about the moves you dont make that make you a good GM. Yzerman and Nill could end up being great GM's. But they havent proved anything yet,

Blame for what? We are in a battle with one of the best teams in the league (a team some picked for the cup), and we are going into a game 7 tomorrow. I don't see what there is to "blame" him for.

If it is it must be from back in the 80's, they haven't won a playoff series since 1993.

You cant just blame the goaltending. The scores in the 4 games St.Louis lost were 4-2, 3-0, 4-1, 4-1. Getting 4 goals in 4 games is not going to get you the win. St.Louis lost as a team. Goaltending may have let them down, but so did the rest of the team.

meh, I was 1 game off.

Tonight's loss was tough. We had it, we were about to go up 3-1 in the series and we just let it slip through our fingers . Hardest non elimination loss I can remember in years. What's done is done and you cant let a bad 2min kill your spirits. The last 2 games at home were overall a success in my eyes especially considering the the ass kicking we got in Tampa. Now its a best 2 out of 3, we are by no stretch out of this series. I admit TB are the favorites, but you cant count the Wings out.

What do you mean by watered down? The skill set of today's NHL player is probably the best its ever been. Do you mean because of the cap/parity, there are no longer stacked teams?

Sad to see this, these guys really do believe what they are saying, regardless of how many facts are thrown their way. McGratton is probably the best example of this, he really does think this is just a faze. Too bad these guys weren't younger, I would suggest they go into MMA.

Did you just break kayfabe lol! They played well last night, hopefully they can keep it going!

Too Soon

For me it was Goose. I watched that game live and that was just a cool moment!

It doesn't look like Winnipeg can win now, but hopefully they can give their fans a win at home.

I just checked, Hammond is a UFA. So unless they trade one of the other two, it looks like they are losing the goalie that got them in the playoffs. http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/OTT?year=2015