kliq

I'm not saying we should or should not retire Osgood's number, but this is not the reason why not to. With this logic, one could say that Yzerman should not have had his jersey retired because he never won a hart.

From what I have read, the only number taken out of circulation that is not retired is Konstantinov's which is obviously a unique situation.

I feel like that would be a slap in the face. Either retire their jersey, or don't. We don't have a ring on honor. To create a separate "category" for just D & Z would would seem patronizing to them. Its like we are saying "We want to honor you, but just a little bit. Not to the level of the real greats"

I think Datsyuk will be the next to go up. Everyone keeps comparing him against Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Howe, when the guys he should be compared to are Abel, Lindsey and Delvecchio. I think Datsyuk is an elite talent, and is a generational player in an age where to be amongst the best is very hard. I look forward to the day that his jersey is raised to the rafters. Not fair at all to compare to different era's like that. Its not D & Z's fault that when they were rookies the team was good. Also not their fault that they play in the salary cap era. While I love Yzerman & Lidstrom (my fav player of all time, my fav D-man of all time), they were lucky to play in an era were we had a leg up on alot of the teams in the league with our resources. I feel the same way about the Howe era, not fair to compare. WAY less teams back then, to win a cup was so much easier. Plus, those guys didn't even play against the best in the world. Not putting down Howe and co. at all, they were great players, just saying you cant compare accomplishments in different era's.

Really not fair to speculate so early. 55fan is right, there are lots of things that could happen at any age such as a brain aneurysm or even a heart attack. My condolences to his family.

My guess is Jeff Petry

The guy is still going to be a UFA, we could still get him. But if he is asking for 6mil a year, I dont want him. I've watched him play in plenty of Leafs games being in Canada and he is not an elite D-man. Giving up a first round pick seems a little steep, especially if TO would have wanted more due to it being the Wings. The way I look at it, if this was a year ago and we make the trade, that means we are trading our chance at Larkin for Frason (as a rental), not something I think anyone here would want to do. Good Pass.

I am not making that mistake, statistics are something I actually know very well. I completely understand the "era" argument, its one I have made myself on this board. If you want to put Pronvost on your team, go for it. I'm not arguing against it. I never got to see the guy play in person, I have never watched a game he played in on TV, I have never even seen a highlight of him. Anything I know about him is based on other people's opinions from what I have read. His point totals appear good, but from comparing him to other top defenseman of his era, he doesn't seem elite (offensively). Even in his career year, Doug Harvey had almost 50% more point then him and his teamate Red Kelly had about 30% more points. The HHOF fame argument is also a tough one due to the era. To be in the HHOF back in the 50's you just had to be one of the best players in North America. Now, you have to be one of the best players in the world. To put this in perspective, I'm sure if Kronwall played in the Swedish elite league today, and it was only swedes that played in it, he would be the best or close to it D-man in the league. A similar situation that Pronvost was in, in the 50's. At the end of the day, I dont know much about Pronvost and he very well could be deserving of a top 6 spot. But im not going to give him that spot just because someone else tells me I should. Its not as if I am writing a book here and am doing hours of research. This is a list I came up with off the top of my head in 5min to have some fun.

I never said that, please dont put words in my mouth. This is my personal all time team, I will fully admit that I am a huge fan of Kris Draper and wanted him to centre my 4th line. This isn't a list ranking the all time forwards 1-12. Same goes for Probert, I doubt he is a top 12 all time wing, but I wanted him on my 4th line. Pronvost is better then "several" of the D-men I listed? Who? Not Lidstrom, not Kelly, not Chelios (especially if you are taking his peak). Konstantinov I feel would have gone down as one of the best ever if not for the accident, I wasn't going to hold that against him. The guy was second to Lidstrom in Norris voting the year before the accident. Kronwall wont get the respect he deserves until after he retires, but im sure there is a debate there. Larson was definitely better offensively then Pronvost. Larson had 570 points in 708 games, Pronvost had 297 points in 983 games. I know its not all about offense, but it has to play a large part. Not saying that Pronvost doesn't deserve to be top 6, but to say he is ahead of "several" I believe is an exaggeration.

Brett Hull was on the Wings for 3 seasons exactly, but I get your point. Shanahan - Yzerman - Fedorov Lindsay - Delvecchio - Howe Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abel Probert - Draper - Mahovlich Lidstrom - Kelly Konstantinov - Chelios Larson - Kronwall Sawchuk Osgood

I agree with you, but you never know. People thought nobody would ever take Luongo's contract, same goes for Prince Fielder in baseball. You just need to find the right team at the right time.

I dont see the Leafs having a problem trading Kessel, there are always teams out there looking for goal scorers.The guy takes way too much heat. Phaneuf I also think is also very tradable. May take a bit longer, but I'm sure there will be a taker. Clarkson I think they are stuck with. HORRIBLE signing! Lupul is tradable IF he can get healthy. Guy is a ball of energy when he plays, its too bad his body has let him down so much.

I'm not familiar with Roussel, could McQuaid beat the crap out of him?

Not sure about Leddy, but Boston wasn't trading Boychuk to a team within their division unless they got a much bigger return then they got from NYI. If Boston realized NYI would be a playoff team this year, I dont think they would have even traded with them. Should have traded him to the West.

The last time I remember someone leaving on a stretcher for an arguable "cheap shot" was Steve Moore. Wouldn't exactly call that the "good old days".

And that is Truculence

Clearly you are talking about my post as I mentioned Thomas/Rask. I never said Mrazek was going to be as good as Rask, I said it reminds me of the Thomas/Rask situation. The situation being, one is a starter who is better in the now, the other is young and is the future. The point I was trying to make, let the kid learn from the vet and then take over when the time is right. I was hoping someone wouldn't try to derail this thread into "Howard is no Thomas!!" so I even specified: I guess I had to also put "not that Mrazek is necessarily going to be Rask". Nabokov and Niemi is a horrible example, not even close to the same situation as they were never there at the same time. I wasn't picking goalies of a similar caliber, I was referencing a similar situation.

Hang on to both as long as you can, unless an unbelievable offer comes your way. I look at this similar to the Thomas/Rask situation a few years back. (not that Howard is at the level Thomas was at in his prime). I would hate to lose one for nothing. I look at the way LA lost Bernier a few years back when they traded him for Matt Frattin, Ben Scrivens and a 2nd round selection. I would hate for this to happen to us.

That does seem messed up. But, i'm curious, does anyone know what "the verdict" was?

Detroit is a well oiled machine, TO is a mess and has been a mess since Roenick took them out pre-lockout. IF Babcock went there and fixed things, I think that would be looked at by the majority/mainstream as a bigger accomplishment. (not saying it is, talking about perception here) With that being said, I dont want him to go to TO and I dont think he will go to TO. But I'd be lying if there wasn't a small part of me that is a bit worried.

He was born in Manitouwadge, Ontario. I'm not sure when he moved to Sask.

When you post these opinions constantly thread after thread after thread on a message board, you have to expect people to chime in. I do think Babs will re-sign, but I'm definitely worried. I could see the challenge of fixing Toronto (I'm guessing the team he grew up liking being from northern Ontario) being a challenge he would want to take on. Plus, if he could go there, fix that team and take them to a cup ending the drought, that would add so much to his legacy. Though winning with 2 generations of Wings would be pretty damn impressive to. I think he stays, I definitely don't see him going to Pittsburgh, I think he wants a challenge. And in the summer where every other thread was a comment about how this team would be lucky to get 8th seed.

There will become a point where to send him down he will have to clear waivers, at that point he should become our permanent backup. For now, unless Babs wants him to play 30-40 games per year, I don't want him here as a backup. I feel playing 10-15 games a year which I think he would considering Jimmy is healthy could hurt his development.

Wow! Since firing Randy Carlyle, they are 1-11-1