kliq

I think Howard is the most under-rated player on the Wings. If he can stay healthy, I think he can easily be one of the top goalies in the league. It was just last year ESPN experts ranked him #6 in the NHL. http://espn.go.com/nhl/notebook/_/page/2013_nhlrank_goaltenders/goaltenders

This will be interesting with the salary cap in place. I can see a situation where most of the teams out there leave the guys with bad contracts unprotected. Its going to be a field full of Franzen's, Lecavalier's etc. Also, when would this take place? If after the season, can a player wait to sign with his team until after the expansion draft is over? This could be a strategy, if a guy is about to be UFA and wants to re-sign, just wait until after the draft. Then he is not a "protected player" but you don't have to worry about losing him.

I would probably eventually go that route as well once Weiss gets going. Though with injuries, everything will change.

100% agree. I chose my lines because I thought that Jurco's big body/hands would compliment D & Z on the first line. I chose Sheahan/Gus/Tatar because last year they showed good chemistry together. I chose Weiss/Franzen/Alfie because I thought starting the year on 3rd line would be good for Weiss after the year he had last year. Third line = low expectations and less pressure. Let him get his game back, and once back, put him back on second line. Franzen, I put in third line, hopefully as a motivator to get him back to playing like he is capable. Alfie, because third line is less minutes, and I think that will be good for him. If there are chemistry issues, then obviously you change things around. Forth line is pretty self explanatory.

Jurco-D-Z Tatar-Sheahan-Nyqvist Franzen-Weiss-Alfie Abby-Helm-Miller Kronwall-Smith E-DD Quincy-Kindl

What about the Las Vegas Outlaws LOL

I don't think he is doomed. The only way he doesn't end up playing is he is sent down to the minors AND every single Red Wing forward stays healthy for 82 games. There is always someone injured, i'm sure Jurco will get his playing time in and by then end of the year be playing every game.

Yzerman, Howe....sure no question. What makes Frank Mahovlich's accomplishments on the Wings so much greater? (nothing against FM) He played on the Wings 4 seasons, with his best season being 78 points in 76 games. No awards, no cups.

I think one level of criteria that is very important when it comes to this, is if the player in question can lead their team to a cup. They did it in '08 and almost '09, but one could argue that the Wings were led by #5, not D & Z (though with Z winning the Conn Smythe that is a hard sell). If they can win another cup, then I think its a lock. If they don't, my guess is still yes due to them being the faces/best players of a certain era.

Nothing really new, but this was on NHL.com today. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=729224&navid=nhl:topheads

That is a very good point. Their careers aren't over yet, the more they accomplish, the higher the chance.

I don't disagree that D & Z are not in that category, but I dont think to have your jersey retired you have to be at the level of Howe, Yzerman, or Lidstrom. Your talking about 3 guys that are 3 of the best players of all time. Are they at the level, or close the level of Abel, Lindsay, or Delvecchio? This is the better question.

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired? I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.

I think we are on a different page when it comes to the definition of a "re-build" What Chicago and LA did was completely different. We are rebuilding our roster, what they did was make minor tweaks as all teams do with UFA and natural turnover. Neither really lost their status as Stanley Cup contenders. If I believed the Wings were a Gaborik away from winning a cup, I would say go for a Gaborik (just an example, I don't literately mean go for Gaborik). But I believe that it is in the Wings best interests to be patient and hold on to their big prospects, and not trade for a rental or a band-aid. Once the kids are ready to go all the way, if you have your cap under control, that's when you make a big move. Don't get me wrong, if the RIGHT trade or the RIGHT UFA comes along now at the right price, go for it. But make sure you take your future into consideration. What GM's need to do now a days is project what the cap is going to be x amount of years down the road, project what they are going to be paying the players that will be on their roster, that at the moment are not signed long term (ie. Gus, Tatar, DD, Mantha etc.), take into consideration the cap hit their vets are going to have, and then see if they have the cash left for the guys they are considering to sign or trade for. Not as easy as it once was. I would hate to see us lose a guy like Gus, Mantha, Jurco or Sproul etc. because we overpaid/signed a guy like Niskanen, Pouliot, Stasny etc.

I never once said anything about Kyle Quincey You are contradicting yourself. You are upset that the Wings are sitting back, yet calling out Chicago and LA as perfect examples of the way it should be done. Like I said above, it took Chicago 11 years to complete their rebuild In that time I don't recall any major UFA signings until the end. Based on this logic, if you consider this year 5 of the re-build (which is a HUGE stretch), then are you saying you would be okay with it taking the Wings until 2020 to become contenders because that is what the Blackhawks did? But that goes against your point of sitting back and waiting just waiting for talent to develop.

Saying "Sign UFA's" is easy, but the reality of the situation is that in 2014 the players available in UFA are typically average/above average players who are paid like they are borderline elite, I don't believe these types of players are necessarily the answer in the post cap era, in this era I believe the answer is grooming your own home grown talent and supplementing it with UFA's when the right player for the right price is available, otherwise these types of moves can be absolutely crippling to a team. We are coming off a year where Matt Niskanen & Paul Stastny headlined a class, nothing against them as players but we aren't talking Suter/Parise here. The reason why you cant answer the question is because that magic player was not there. The closest person is probably Suter, but signing anyone to a 14 deal right before a CBA was about to be negotiated would have been extremely risky and I am glad we didn't land him. We took a gamble on Weiss, and while he does have years to come around, I think this shows you how just signing a UFA doesn't fix everything. I find it ironic that you use LA and Chicago in your points of comparison, but you are frustrated that we are not winning now. Chicago and LA did not become elite team overnight, they were very bad, for a very long time. LA didn't make the playoffs for 7 years, until there most recent winning way started (i'm talking 7 years to get back in to playoffs, not going deep or winning cups), Chicago (with the one exception of '02) didn't make the playoffs for 11 years. We are in a re-build, people need to accept it. The difference between us and others of the past is that we just aren't horsesh*t doing it. We could go all in and trade Kronwall, Zetterberg, Datsyuk etc. but what they are doing is hoping that our kids can become great, while the vets are still elite or close to it, plus using these vets to give guidance to the kids that are coming up. Its almost as if sustaining our winning ways to a degree is hurting us, because its resulting in people failing to see the re-build. I'm sorry, but I dont want to be Edmonton, or what Chicago and LA were and be very bad for a very long time. Having a quick turn-around where we dont need to just unload everyone, and are still making the playoffs in an era of parity where anything can happen, is a nice way of doing it! Lastly, as far as comparing Holland to Yzerman and Nill, this is fair buts lets wait a couple of years. Other then a final 4 a few years ago, Yzerman hasn't done anything yet. Since that final 4 TB didnt make the playoffs, and then were swept first round. I admit they appear to be going in the right direction, but its results that matter. Nill....same thing. I love the moves he is making, but at the end of the day all Dallas has accomplished is an 8th seed where they were bounced first round. Please don't take this as me putting either of these guys down, the moves appear to be good ones, but lets wait and see.

I don't think DickieDunn is saying that everyone would want Quincey, but rather that some team out there would have offered him a contract. I 100% agree with this, maybe not for the term/$$ the Wings offered, but there would have been at least 1 offer nearly 2 months into free agency.

LOL "not even sniffing at the third round dice almost 6 years" implies that they haven't been close for 6 years. They were literately 1 goal away from the third round 15 months ago.

Ridiculously dismissive....plus I don't get why we cant count the Russians of the late 80's, early 90's. Every team could have done what the Wings did, some did. The year Fedorov and Vladi were drafted, that was the same year Bure and Yashin were drafted. If you go back a bit farther then 20 years (i'm not count anything in round 1 and 2): Lidstrom - 3rd Round Konstantinov - 11th round Fedorov - 4th Round Zetterberg - 7th round Datsyuk - 6th Round Nyquist - 4th round (not elite star yet, IMO will be soon) Osgood - 3rd Round (say what you want, will likely be HOF when its all said and done) Holmstrom - 10th Round (definitely not a quote unquote elite player, had his faults, but a damn steal at 10th round) Franzen - 3rd Round (not an "elite" talent, but the guy has had a very good career) Filppula - 3rd Round (see above) To say 2 elite talents in 20+ years which was just luck pretty much just sh**ting on the job the Wings have done in scouting, evaluation, and grooming talent over the past few decades. I haven't looked, but I don't think another team out there will have this kind of track record. Plus, I'm sure im missing a ton of good players, not to mention all the second round picks and late 1st round picks (ie. Kronwall). Go back and look at plenty of drafts, many many second rounders and late first rounders end of being duds.

Specifically at Wing I wouldn't want this type of signing due to the log jam we already have, but I agree with your point. Look at Toronto last year with Mason Raymond. Signing a D-man to a contact like this couldn't have hurt as long as its a 1 year deal, and doesn't result in any cap issues.

I disagree, I could name a ton of good to great players they have drafted in late rounds, but we all know who they are. Saying it was lucky is just completely dismissive.

Again.....then they shouldn't have signed them to extensions just a few months ago.

I think why this is so upsetting to people is because they were just signed to extensions a few months prior to all this happening. Its like they were promised everything, agreed to take discounts, and now are being pushed out since do to their lower cap hits and 3 year terms will get a lot back in return. If i'm Coulture or Pav and I am a UFA in a few years, no way I'm resigning with San Jose after I see the way they treats their vets, Marleau has been there for I think 16 years.

Exactly! But they still manage to find stars on par with those guys much later in the draft, much more impressive, it doesnt take a genius GM to pick an obvious guy at the top. Though as a Lions fan through the Matt Millen era, maybe I should take back that statement lol.

Exactly my point, so ridiculously talented on offense an defense, and when he was on and showed up, he was on! Though some nights.....nothing. Not fair to compare points per game, different era's. 90's were a different time, I can only imagine the amount of assists Datsyuk would have back then. Wasn't it only like '93 when Mogilny and Selanne scored like 76 goals.