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I hope so, if he does pan out with Chowolski it makes that Arizona trade seem ALOT better. So hard to tell with D though.

To be fair, depth does matter (just ask Colorado) but I agree we go a bit overboard.

If he considers Mrazek the #1, then yes. If he doesnt, then no.

If you re-read what I wrote, I was telling Frank what I would do, I was not saying what I thought Holland would do.

I did address that. If we moved Glendening, Sheahan, Howard, E, Nielsen, Abby and Green that saves us about 28 million.

Your diverting, I didn't ask you how they acquired JVR, Bozak, Kadri, etc. what I asked you was how do you define what Shanahan and company did as "blowing things up"? They traded 2 players (what you define as their "core"), Clarkson (not a part of their core), and 4th liners/UFAs. They did not "blow things up". Going on about how they acquired players has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make. No need to post links lol, its nothing I haven't already read living in Windsor a million times. Here is an exact list of who they traded last year and the year before, trust me I know the Leafs very well as I follow them much like I follow the Wings. Phil Kessel (core) Dion Phaneuf (core) Shawn Matthias (not a core players) Roman Polak (not a core players, and brought him back anyways) Nick Spaling (not a core players) James Reimer (not a core players) Daniel Winnik (not a mistake, they traded him twice) (not a core players) Carter Ashton (not a core players) Cody Franson (UFA) Mike Santorelli (not a core players) Daniel Winnik (not a core players) David Clarkson (not a core players) Olli Jokinen (not a core players) Korbinian Holzer (not a core players) Funny you talk about how they fired scouts etc. in an effort to make your point. Were you not the one who came on here ranting when they did that? Funny how hindsight is 20/20. As far as your Arizona question. I never said that Arizona had other choices, again you are missing my point. I am not trying to be a jerk Frank, but please actually read what I am saying, you are going off in directions that I am not arguing. The point I am making is that they have had how many top picks, and they still are nothing special. A perfect example of how tanking and acquiring high picks doesn't automatically equal success. I never said the Wings shouldn't trade some players, what I am saying is I dont want them to "blow it up", I want them to go the Toronto route and make a few changes, shed a few contracts and do it the right way. What does that mean for me? Here is what I would like to see them do: - Trade one our young 3 for Trouba - Get rid of Howard, E, Nielsen, Abby (though don't mind if we keep him) and Glendening - Trade Tatar or Nyquist for a top 4 d-man - Make a play for Tavares if he becomes available. Having him-Larkin-AA down the middle would solidy us at the Center position for years. - Trade Sheahan if the rumor of a first rounder is true, trade Green for a 1st as well You see, by not blowing it up, we can still use two of (Larkin, Mantha, AA) as well as some of our vets. I am also open to playing guys like Hicketts, Russo, Cholowski, and Sarijarvi if they are ready. We go with: Zetterberg - Tavares - 9th overall Pick Nyquist - Larkin - UFA/Kid Svechnikov - AA - UFA/Kid G. Smith? - Helm - Nosek Trouba - Top 4 D-man acquired for likely Tatar DD - Jensen (or kids if they are better/ready instead of Jensen) Sproul - XO (or kids if they are ready/better then either) Mrazek I fully realize the chances of all this happening are slim (especially Tavares), but if you are questioning what I want to do, I am laying it out for you. I would like to use Nyquist, Helm, and Z in a similar way Toronto is using JVR, Kadri, and Bozak. to compliment the kids. Blowing it up would mean trading all of these guys which I do not want to do.

You always say this, but please explain to me how the Leafs "blew it up". They traded 2 players, 1 awful contract, and a few players who were mostly 4th liners/expiring contracts but they kept the majority of their team in tact. Most of their young guys were actually acquired when they were trying to be competitive but just sucked (you could argue similar to our past season). They got Matthews last year partially because they traded Pheuneuf and Kessel, but also because half their team was injured, and they won the lottery. They could just as easily have Pierre-Luc Dubois right now, but fortuntely for them luck was on their side (nothing against him, my point just being with him they would not be as good this year). If the Leafs did what you are implying they did, I don't believe they would be close to as good as they are right now because if they did guys like Kadri, JVR, Komarov, Reily, Gardinar and Bozak would be gone. Luckily the Leafs were smart enough to make calculated moves, get a little lucky and not tank like teams such as Colorado, Arizona, Buffalo, and Edmonton. Tanking usually does not work, the Leafs did not tank. What I want is the Wings to make calcualted moves like the Leafs. But anyways, with that being said, if you can explain how they "Blew it Up" go for it.

I wouldn't get rid of DD. Agreed in year 1 of his contract he wasn't that great, but for a team struggling to find defensemen the last thing I want to do is get rid of a legit top 4 guy who struggled because he was put in a top 2 role. Only way I move him is if its for a better D-man.

Are you saying that Tavares is a prospect for the Islanders? You just seem to be naming random star players. A prospect is a guy who hasnt played an NHL game get, or if he has, has only played for a short period of time.

Ya, what Dickie said. We have Larkin, and AA as center depth and should at least be our future 2nd and 3rd line centers. Who do you see on D with higher upside then these two? We have some unknown's in Dennis Cholowski and Vili Saarijarvi, and Robbie Russo and Joe Hicketts could be ok, but I dont think they have a higher upside then Larkin and AA.

Its not like this is coming from Bob Mckenzie, is Larry Brooks a reputable source?

Ya I saw that article, not a huge fan of WIIM. Thanks for posting though.

It's nice that there appears to be such parity at the top of the draft, better for a team like us. A lot of reports/buzz/projections etc have us taking Liljegren, has anyone here seen him play? I now Lefty hates him, but anyone else lol?

Who pissed in your Cheerios Frank? Why so angry? This is a discussion board, and this is a thread to discuss the draft. Us being one number away from winning was a story last night so we are discussing it. Nobody is "blaming" anything, if anything I like the luck of it all, I'm happy a team like Colorado was not rewarded with #1 after their miserable season while a team like Philly got #2 after trying to make the playoffs and just falling short. This type of thing will just further hurt the argument of the "pro tank" crowd. If ownership wanted to do this, it would be done. The fact that they are not doing it, tells me ownership is not down to do this.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-red-wings-one-number-off-winning-nhl-draft-lottery/ Its like an actual lottery, we were literally one number off from getting the 1st pick. Son of a *****!

Can you at least say this is your opinion, you are saying it like it's fact which is simply untrue. Rumors last year were that Winnipeg wanted Larkin and a winger, and who even knows for sure if that was true.

Well that sucked. I'm glad Colorado didnt get it though. I just did a mock draft lol, and it has us taking Mittlestadt. http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017-draft/mock-draft/

Oh nice! Thanks!

Does anyone know where you can watch the lottery?

Ya things are not looking good for him, he really couldnt be in a better situation right now.

Oh wow! I didnt even realize that! Screw top 3 lol, we want #1!

I remember this also, but I don't think it was so much that his girlfriend/wife didnt want to come here, its that their families are from Minnesota and she wanted to be closer to home. To be fair, I can't blame her. http://www.playerwives.com/nhl/minnesota-wild/ryan-suters-wife-becky-suter/ I think saying it doesnt get anywhere close is a bit of an exaggeration, but I agree it likely doesn't get it done. If I amGM of Winnipeg and I feel that our young team just needs a goalie to get into the playoffs and I have the cap-room, why not bring a vet like Howard in, he's only under contract for 2 more years, and when he is on/healthy, he is very good. Low risk, high reward. I guess the key here is AA, it all depends on your opinion of him. Maybe the peg counters with AA/Howard/1st rounder.....who knows.

I get the frustration. You take a discount to play for a contender, and then don't even make the playoffs. With that being said, leave that crap in house, don't use the media to vent.

The same reason why even though we finished 7th, we can still pick 1st. For teams to have a chance to move up, a direct result is other teams moving down. You literally can't have one without the other. Then add LV and moving two spots down can happen.

I'll practice and get better.