Richdg

There was something on one of the rumor sites 2 weeks ago, yardbarker had it IIRC about davidson trying to move out more money. Umberger the main guy mentioned. he of the NTC. But maybe he would waive it for the wings? just a thought. be a great 2nd line LW. Good size, only 30, plays both end of the ice. Again, division blah blah, has 4 years left on his deal. But on the other hand 6-2/220 LW that can score 25 goals per year don't grow on trees either. Just a thought.

Contract the yotes and 1 more. Stay at 28 teams. Expand the rosters to 25 so the union don't *****.

Um yes they do. in fact i have worked in 2 different universities athletic departments, and they do it all the time. You recruit guys today, for the purpose of them being starters 3, 4, 5 years done the road. That is how it works in every sport. You see if in the NFL every draft. Let's see.... My starting QB is 32, so teams go draft the next starter with the thought of them sitting the bench for 2-4 years and then taking over. GB did it with farve and rodgers. I guarente you that somewhere in RW HQ you can find a chart with dates on it that they project when each and every player needs to be replaced. That is how you develop a draft plan. yes btw, kids that are 13-14 years old in HS are being recruited by major college programs already. junior hockey does it even younger, which in turn feeds college and pro hockey. This is the way of all sports teams around the world. In europe they have the club levels that feed the highest level. The U15, U17, and U19 teams in soccer, the U19 and U21 teams in rugby. Go look at all the swedish teams. they have teams for every age group, because it all fills/flows to the top like a funnel.

Hmm.... Filppula is a UFA after this year, so he doesn't have a ton of value. But if we did it, that would leaves us with a hole at RW/LW and about 8 million to spend on 1 big time UFA. if Car would be offering a 2nd round pick and another servicable player like Bowman, that could work.

If they will take franzen, DONE! takes 4 million off of our cap for the next 8 years! Or is it 9..... some long a$$ time. Not sure if they can trade Vol. according to capgeek, he has a full NTC. Tallinder would be fine, his contract is done after next season. Now if we are looking to get something to build with, go after Fayne.

Do you ever watch hockey? i mean come on. But since you posted it... Raedeke 22 goals in 159 AHL games. Skill? nope. Size? Under the NHL average. Speed? Average. Sheahan-he is a checker. Abdelkader 2.0 Andersson-he is a checker, would have to improve to be equal to Abdelkader. Aubry? Skill? really? What are you smoking. 6 goals in 100 AHL games. no speed either. Nestrasil-can't even play with the griffins. has been demoted to Toledo. 5 points in 31 career AHL games will do that. Nyquist-has he already been passed by tatar? he is 24 and hasn't done anything with the big club. parkes-checker, again has to improve to even be equal to Abdelkader. Most of the rest are still playing junior, which is where i said much of our talent is and no one has any idea on how they will turn out. I will take that bet. TBH, i hope your right, but I know you are not. Of course any trades made can and will chnage that opinion. As of today, this team losses in the 1st round if we make it in at all.

ummm you just repeated and proved my point. Our best prospects ARE PLAYING JUNIOR HOCKEY RIGHT NOW! That is what I said. Our best are not tatar, nyquist, or the rest of the gang in GR. Those are very limited NHL guys. Some checkers and a few 35-40 point guys. That is all we have ready for the next 24 months. The problem with guys playing Junior hockey is, can they handle the next level. on that we don't know.

man, reading that hurts my head....lol

Futility you say? So every NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA team is exercising futility? Every corporation in the world is just wasting their time? Every resposable household is just winging it, and hoping their is money for the kids to go to college or to retire someday? this is what is called startegic planning, and everyone, repeat everyone does it. It comes in many forms. a 1 year plan, 3 year plan, 5 year plan, 10 year plan, 20 year plan etc... In a day an age with a salary cap, it becomes even more important. You also cleary didn't read and understand what I have said. i didn't say make an offer to an RFA, although if that chance arises, we should. I said make a trade for O'reilly. No, he doesn't look to be resigning with Col. and all the rumors say they are far apart. If we can deal for him, we should. can we? Who the hell knows. but again, that is what the GM is supposed to be doing. making calls and finding ways to get better. As for the notion that datsyuk can't be traded, answer: gretzky. he was, so anyone can be. Without a major infusion of talent, young talent prefered, we will not win a SC with him here again. Now there are 3 ways you can pick up talent: draft-takes 3-5 years to be ready, UFA's very expensive and is a total crap shoot, and trades. That is it. Talent doesn't drop from the sky and magicaly appear. We have limited cap space, if we resign Filppula, Howard and Brunner, and limited high end pieces to move via trade. between NTC's, age, and bad contracts, That really only leaves datsyuk as a piece that can be moved for some young pieces. Like it or not, but it is true. Now will it happen? i wouldn't hold my breath. it would take some major balls to do it, and at this stage of his career, I don't see Holland being that bold.

So let me understand. The last 3 years, with more talent we get sent home early. That is ok? if we couldn't win the SC or even get close with better teams, how is staying the same going to be better? Another 1 round exit is better than a couple of high end picks, or young up and coming players? When Datsyuk and Z walk, sometime over the next 2-5 years, we are done, baring a major change. can that happen solely by the draft? yes. Does our % improve with more draft picks? yes it does. Would it be better to move a proven vet that is still very veyr good and get some NHL ready guys now? yes. if we say moved datsyuk, you still have plenty of vets and leadership on the team to show the younger guys the way to play. if all the vets are gone, who does that? I am not saying anything is easy, far from it. But this why GM's get paid millions of dollars per year.

Agian, you must not understand the english language much. Read what I wrote, then think about it, and then get back with me.

Just wondering if he is still dealing with that to some degree. They do seem to be finding every reason to not play him.

Ok draft time.... Thought about a new thread, but then the forum police complain about having to many threads on a forum. oddest thing I ever heard of. But whatever. So let's look forward a few years. Lets say it in now August 1, 2018-5 seasons from now. We currently have only 3 players signed that long. Franzen-then 39, Z then 38, and Kronwall then 37. Between them they we be making 14 million per year or eating up 20% of or cap space, give our take a bit. we have several Dmen that should still be here and hopefully developed by then: Ericsson 34, Kindl 31, Smith 29, lashoof 28, Deleyser 9yes I think we sign him) 28, and De Haas 24, all LHed shots. From the right side the only legit long term prospect looks like Sproul 25. yes we have jensen 28, marchenko 26, and Nicastro 28, but I am not sold on any of them yet. That makes 8 guys that should be in the NHL producing, not including any future picks. not a bad group to be building from. Only 3 of the 8 over 30. 7 of the 8 6-2 or taller. At g we should be set as well. Howard should still be around and playing well. he isn't a speed tender so should be performing at a high level. plus we have marzck (spelling). Howard will be in his early 30 and marz mid 20's. Forwards is much more of a concern. We seem to have 2 types of forwards: small european skilled guys or larger NA checkers. Very few that can play a total game. by total game I am talking 25 goals, 60+ points, 80 PIM's that skates wel and plays D. Almost all of our forwards are also LHed. Only 5 in our entire system are RH: Hudon, Jarnkrok, frk, Callahan, and Pulkkinen. looking at the potential forward group there are 10 guys that I see in the top 5 lines in detroit and top 2 in GR: Tvrdon, McKee (yes he is playing D in junior, but fits much better as a LW), Abdelkader, Andersson (maybe) Zetterberg if he has anything left, helm, Sheahan, Filppula, Frk, and callahan. Yes I am sure there will be 1 or 2 more that develop and make it, and some of the guys I listed will be gone: released, traded, get hurt, price themselves out of our range etc.... All that being said, we have a draft in June. Every site known to mankind has every player ranked in different spots. The deeper you go, the more range there is, so please don't waste the time saying playing so and so is ranked higher/lower than that. It varies greatly. Here is what i would like to see, based on no trades and we finish in the middle of the pack. 1st round: with the 18th pick the detroit Red wings take Valentin Zykov RW/C. 6-1/215. 2nd round: with the 48th pick the DRW take: Mike McCarron RW 6-5/230. 3rd round: with the 78th pick the DRW take: John Hayden C 6-3/210. 4th round: with the blah blah blah: Jerret Smith D 6-2/200. 5th round: Parker Reno D 6-2/200. 6th round: Sergey Kuptsov LW 6-2/215. 7th round: Jordan DeKort G 6-4/190. Yes everyone of the skaters but Kuptsov is RHed. This is also a very very dep draft. many scouts are talking as good if not better than 2003. That being said, anything we can do to pick up some extra 2nd and 3rd round picks only adds to the depth and talent, and competition for playing time. Those are good things. if I can spin off Franzen for an extra pick between 50 and 70, do it asap! Quincey for a pick between 80 and 100, DONE! There is one other guy that i would target with those extra picks. Move into the bottom of the 1st if I have to to get him. That is Hudson Fasching C/RW 6-2/215 another RH shot. If this was our draft we could then see a lineup in 2018 that looks like this: Tvrdon 6-2/210 25-Zetterberg 5-11/190 38-Filppula 6-0/195 34 Kuptsov 6-2/215 23-Haydon 6-3/210 23-McCarron 6-5/230 23 McKee 6-5/230 25-Fasching 6-2/215 23-Zykov 6-2/215 23 Abdelkader 6-1/220 31-Helm 5-11/190 31-Sheahan 6-2/215 27 Andersson 6-2/210 and Callahan 6-0/200 27 Ericsson 6-4/220 34-Sproul 6-3/200 25 Smith 6-2/200 29-Lashoff 6-3/210 28 Dekeyser 6-3/200 28-Kindl 6-3/215 31 De Haas 6-4/210 Yes Kronwall could still be playing instead of Kindl. Last thoughts on this. If we were so lucky as to actually draft some of these guys, spend our money here, get them signed and have them play in Toledo for 1.5 to 2 years, then GR for the same amount of time. get them playing on lines now and have them grow and develop together. If by some chance of fate, we actually make either/both of the trades I mentioned above, now add in O'Rielly, Krieder, Bickle, and Sauer to this lineup, and we once again become a loaded team. Now I realize this is just some crazy thoughts from a accused troll, but just imagine for a few minutes. There is some method to my madness. Yes i understand that Holland has some serious man love for small european fowards. Got it. But still, think a bit and dare to dream......

gotchya All of which is true, and is something I have said we need to do. We can't stand pat with what we have and expect to stay in the PO hunt. Don't forget Datsyuk is a UFA next summer. He is 36 at that point and has talked about going home. If he leaves-and we get nothing, we are in a world of sh!t. If we trade him we get something back. But that is a jagged pill for kost to swallow, which I understand. But 25-30 win seasons are much worse.

True, but broduer also has a great D in front of him most years. The one thing that draws attention from most fans ref goalies is flash. That is something Howard doesn't have. On the plus side, he does have a mean streak. Not Billy Smith mean (my all time fav tender) but he doesn't take sh!t either.

BTW if you read all of my posts, I know who has time....lol I am not someone who beleives all is lost. I have said from the begining that over the next couple of years we will stay in the 6th through 10th range in the WC. Our G situation is very good, once we resign Howard. We also have several good young Dmen. Lashoff-who didn't surprise me after watching him the past 2 years, Smith, E, Kindl-doing much better, and a couple of young guys Sproul, Oullett, and De Haas-don't sleep on him all coming along. It is our forwards that are the concern. We lack size, speed, skill, and strength. Most of our F prospects have 1 or 2 of the 4 skill sets. We need the future stars. This is not a big secret either. Holland has talked about it, so have babs, mickey and others.

Not following you here? Trade what for what with Toronto?

In 2 of the past 3 seasons, Howard is top 5 in GAA and he is average...... LOL

You bring up an interesting point or 2. But you also left out a couple of big ones. The Sedin twins were the 2nd and 3rd pick overall in the draft. They were supposed to be great, and are. To get picks that high, you have to have a really bad season. Also make a trade for the second pick, which Van. did. We kinda did the same thing 20 years ago. had a really bad season, thus a top pick-primeau, who we then turned into Shanahan via trade. 4 cups later..........

LOL, I just proved you wrong about who I am. If you go back to summertime, I was against signing parise because of his contract and didn't think he is/was worth it. I was all for signing Suter. Some of you are kinda like sheep. One person says something and everyone falls in line and believes it. As for losing high end players, yes. Shanahan, Federov, Yzerman, Hossa, Nick, etc... have all left over the last few years and none of thme have been replaced. Z and Dat where already on the team. Not to mention the best grind line of the past 20 years. There have been zero replacements that are equal in value. Looking at what is coming over the next 24 months, this trend isn't going to change-IMHO. If it does and someone proves me wrong, GREAT! But you don't take high end players off of a team, replace them with journeymen and win Cups. Which in the end is what we all want.

Yes. His career highs were 5 years ago. Been dropping ever since. Same with datsyuk,. In 07/08 Z had 92 points. Since then: 73, 70, 80, 69 in order. As for datsyuk: in 07/08 and 08/08 he had 97 points. Since then: 70, 59, 67. Got plot it. Those are strong negative slopes. Yes both guys have gooten off to a great start. They were in shape and ready to go. This short season should help them. But let's see if the trends continue after the year is done. I would bet it does. Players don't get better as they get older-baring the use of PED's.......

Most if not all of our euro players play in the no contact pro leagues in europe before they come over. Then they play in Toledo and/or GR. Z and dat where/are different cats than the rest of these guys. Always have been and always will be. But back to the point, none of our guys at Tol/GR are future stars. A 40 point guy isn't terrible. It is however a terrible thing for your team when 75+ point guys are getting replaced by 40 point guys. That is the problem.

The biggest thing about the Olym. is those are still a year away. Who is going to be healthy? For example, kesler hasn't played yet-that I recall. Will he be back? Bogisan (spelling) is out for this year with a bad wrist/surgery. On the plus side Fayne with the NJD is becoming a very good Dman. Plenty of other young stars that could still make an impact. Long way to go. This summers camp will be interesting to watch...

That will be the test. History is filled with great junior players that fail in the pro's. I hope he makes it. We sure can use a big RH shooting Dman with some offensive skill.

BTW, I think the guy you all are remembering is centourcougar07. He joined mid april-I joined begining of may. He is from minny, lives in minny, has a pic of the wilds arena in his profile, and made his last post at the end of july. He was all about showing the wild some love.