Richdg

Chicago Boston, Philly and others are already at the cap or over it, and need to add multiple players to even have a team. This is where Kenny needs to make a steal of a deal. No it isn't going to be cheap but it can be done. The BH have several good D prospects and this might allow them to make the salary dump they need to make.

Yes it has been a disappointing season for Mantha. But the jump from juniors to pro's is a very large one. Add in the broken leg and missed training camp and we shouldn't be surprised. I am also not worried. All reports from inside the griffins are very positive. He works hard and wants to become a star. I would bet it happens. lets go back a few years. Primeau wasn't a star right away either. it took him time to develop. Shanny had 26 points in his first pro season-in the NHL. Jeff Carter has 42, 37, and then 53 points in his first 3 seasons. Point is, it takes guys time to develop.

Some of what you are saying is true. hasek was not cheap however. he has well paid at the market rate and so is Howard. As for Weiss many of us knew it was a bad idea at the time. But and here is the kicker, nothing can be done about it now. he is signed, has no movement clauses and will be here unless we take on another bad contract. You mention "putting the D back into Detroit" then talk about adding Green!?!? he doesn't play D, never has. he is Paul Coffey 2.0 but more injury prone. We need to take advantage of our prospect pool and cap space to rob so9me of the teams that are already cap tight/over the cap and need to make space. IE Chicago, Philly, Boston, LA, NYR etc.... Most of those teams need to move salaries to be able to field a team next year.

No. Having 2 good/great goalies is not an issue. Many teams don't have one. I realize that people love his style of play, but he didn't do any better than Howard over the course of the season. Their numbers are nearly equal, which is surprising with Howards poor play after his injury. Howard also had BETTER numbers in the PO's last season that Mrazek did this year. By numbers I am talking GAA and save %. Will Mrazek be a great G down the road? he should be, but there are no sure things. Lets wait until he is before we do anything rash.

No I didn't. To get players of value you have to give up something. He is a UFA after next season and is going to be in the 3.5 million range. Checkers-which he is are not worth that type of money. I would rather move him, Q, and Kindl than any of our prospects. Of course some will have to go if we are going to get some big fish.

Another year and another early exit from the playoffs. As I started to think about it, I did expect this to be the case. Which of course raised more questions. In the end the best way I can describe the team is stale. It really is time for a major shake up, but I doubt it happens. Ok maybe it happens with the head coach. Babs has had plenty of time to decide if he wants to be here and sign a new contract. That hasn't happened, so I think he is gone. Yes he is a great coach, but maybe it is time. Maybe he goes somewhere else or just retires for a couple of years. Either way I think he is gone. Good luck Micheal and thanks for the good times! But the changing of the guard on the bench is only part of the big picture. This team is stuck. We are not terrible nor great. Just average and in the middle somewhere. Yes we made the playoffs. That means we are in the top 53% of the league. But we are not a top team anymore, nor have we been for several years. 3 of the last 4 years getting dumped in the 1st round. Great teams do more. The team is just boring to watch lately. I am not saying the players are not working hard, they are. But there isn't an outward show of emotion most of the time. Some may remember the TV commercial that the Wings used to show about hosting other teams. They were putting up curtians, playing easy lsitening music and burning candles. Well i think the team took that to heart. We are a very nice group of guys that no one fears playing. The other teams know they are not going to get hit, beat up, and it will be a nice time playing the wings, win or lose. Back in the 1990's when Bill Cowher was the coach of the Steelers, there was a stat that I loved. The winning % of teams the week after they played the Steelers was about 25%. Teams were so tired, sore, beat up, after playing them, that they always lost. That is what i miss from the Red Wings. We used to be that way when we won Cups. Playing us was a tough game and everyone knew it. Now, not so much. Now looking forward. yes it would be great if some changes were made. but I don't expect many/any from outside of the organization. i would bet that 20 of the 23 on the opening roster are already with the team. Cleary will finally be gone, hopefully franzen is as well, some more youth will be brought up, and maybe 1-2 outsiders brought in. If ever there was a chance of maiing a trade or 2, this is the year. many teams are already tight to the cap and good high end players with big contracts will have to be moved. The UFA class is weak-which is the new normal. Let's hope and pray kenny makes a statement move this year. Not holding my breath however..... When I look at the team we need 2 big wingers, and a good RHed Dman. As of today I see the following: tatar-Datsyuk- open spot Nyquist-Z-Abby Jurco-Sheahan-Pulk open spot-Glendening-Miller Anderson and maybe Callahan dekeyser-open spot Kronwall-ericsson Smith-marchenko Lashoff Howard Mrazek Now fill in the other 3 spots and we are set for the year. The Griffins could have a heck of a lineup if we get Larkin signed this summer, which there have been a rumor or 2 posted could happen.

is it the fighting that has effected the former goons or the drugs/booze? name a former goon that wasn't an addict that has health issues. Grimson was always clean and to date hasn't shown any health issues that I am aware of. Gordie was one of the toughest ever and is in his mid 80's before a stroke slowed him down. When Probert died everyone was quick to talk about all his fights but very few mentioned the long term serious drug use. McCarty has the same thing with booze. Of course this is a side issue.....

Just look at this forum. there are or where thousands of members. But most are gone now and maybe 40-50 ever post anymore. Mods feel free to add traffic numbers to this. I used to look forward to watching the RW's on TV-man I miss gary thorne but that is a side issue, now I fall asleep half of the time. This team is boring as hell to watch. Some of the best games the past few years are when the west coast teams hook up. Kings-Ducks-Sharks. All are big, fast, physical, and have as much skill as anyone does. Which brings me to college hockey. I am a huge Michigan fan and I never watch college hockey. It is boring. Always has been. On the West side of the state, we have/had the same issue with the Griffins. Going to the VA to watch a game can and will involve sleeping. Boring games where no one touches each other, an arena that is overly PC, and a crowd that largely is there for something to do before they hit the bars downtown. Games at LC Walker in Muskegon have always been more fun. Long story short in the game has lost something. some of it is the fact the RW's are not a dominate team anymore and we are effected by that. But the game itself isn't the same. Get rid of the points all together. Every game has a winner and loser, so just go back to tracking wins and loses. So simple.......

It all depends on what you expected heading into the season. Before the season I thought as I have the last 4 or 5 years now, that we would finish somewhere between 6th and 10th in the conference. Which is what we did. I thought 1 or 2 of the young guns from last year would progress and others would regress, which also happened. TBH nothing that happened this year was a surprise. Now in the big picture, every year you don't win a cup is a failure. That is the goal.

The light looks to finally be on. mantha has scored in 3 of his last 4 games with the griffins. 4 points in that stretch. Has 12 goals and a good chance to get to 20 in his first year of pro hockey. Not a bad start. Not the explosive start we all wished for, but solid none the less.

last year I started saying that Dekeyser was our best defensive defenseman. Now others have joined the bandwagon. a very nice story by the Hockey Writers. of course I can't get the link to work......... Just go to www.thehockeywriters.com and then look up the story.......

A fight! Brings back such good memories..........

SOW, just because the league has been dumbed down, doesn't mean that waht I said isn't true. Good-the key word #2 C's put up 60ish points per year. There were 30 C's on your list with 56 or more BTW. Go back and look over the last 25 years. nearly every great team had 2 or more very good C's. Yzerman and federov, Datsyuk and Zetterberg, Crosby and malkin, the Ducks went and got Kesler because they needed better, same with the Stars and Spezza. Boston with Krejic (spelling) and bergeron. Sharks with thornton and Pevalski. The list goes on and on. No every team doesn't have true #2 C's. hell some teams don't have a true #1 C on their roster. Just because every team puts out 3 pairs of Dmen, does that mean the guys playing on their top pair are truely top 4 Dmen? No and you know better. If Kronwall, Dekeyser, and ericsson all wake up with the flue and can't play tonight, does this now mean KFQ is a top 4 Dman? No. yes he is playing the spot, but we all know he isn't that quality of player.

So you don't like hockeys future, fine, here is a better reference. Ken Holland. Oullett and Sproul were drafted in the same draft. Who was first? Oullett. For over a year we have been hearing-correctly that we need to add a RH shot on the BL. Ok, so what young Dman from GR came up first and has played the most this season? oullett. Now marchenko is up. With marchenko being older one could make a good arguement that he is just further along in his development. You can't do that with Oullett because theya re the same age. Yet the LHed Oullett comes up before the RHed Sproul. As fro marchenko's rnakings coming out, yes I did remember correctly. Most draft sites did have him as a first round talent, but he was very public about only coming to NA if he was drafted by the RW's which drove his stock down. Then he had an injury/illness that bottomed out his stock.

So I am wrong..... Ok. Here is the link to hockeys future. They tend to agree with me. Oullett, Sproul, and Marchenko all have the same ranking: 7.0 and a grade of C. BTW what do they have listed as the organizations weakness? Goal tending depth and sizable forwards...... Seems like I have heard that somewhere....... http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/detroit_red_wings/ BTW this is not a negative. I think all 3 of those guys have top 4 potential. I am not dismissing them like you are. Sproul may have the most offensive upside of all 3, but he is also to date the worst defensively. Oullett and marchenko both play well rounded games, which is what Holland and Babcock want. In their draft years all were ranked in the same range. At least Sproul and Oullett were. Merchenko might have been even higher but had the Russian thing going against him IIRC.

Smith you are truely a guy whose glass is half full. Yes Sheehan is on pace right now for 39 or 40 points. But those are not #2 C numbers. 60ish points is what good #2 C put up per year. Will he ever get there? Who knows. Larkin has yet to play a single pro hockey game and you are already saying he is a true #2 C. yet you insist Sproul is the "only top 4 D prospect we have" when Oullett and Marchenko have already passed him and are outproducing him. Now having 3 very good high end D prospects is a good thing not a bad one. But we are still a bit weaker at the F spot. You need more F's, we are losing a bunch of talent, and don't as of yet have the bodies to replace those guys-to say nothing of improving our teams depth and talent level. Yes guys like AA could be very good someday. No one is disagreeing with you. But as of today he hasn't blossomed nor has Mantha or Larkin for that matter.

Smith, yes we have a bunch of good young F's. but we will lose a few over the next couple of years. Trades happen, some will price themselves out of our range-cap issues, others will fail to develop. Sheehan is a good example. he is a #3. maybe he becomes a #2 someday, but right now as of today he is not. AA is a guy with great speed and good size, but again as of today he is not a dominate player at the AHL level. Could he develop? Yup. but he also could stall out. he played winger in Junior and they are trying to make him a C in the pro's-which is the right move IMHO. But it doesn't mean it will work. We all know without a doubt that most prospects don't pan out. It is true today, was true yesterday, and will be true tomorrow. about 1 of 5 draft picks ever turns into anything at the NHL level. or in simple terms, 1.5 players from each draft. That is it. Of course none of this includes any future moves. if say we were to pick up a guy like Meyers or Petry for our top 4, that would really decrease the need at D. Same is true if we add a high end F. Final thought. If we have say the 22th pick in the draft. The F's in this area are MUCH better than the Dmen in this area.

Smith, right now today we have 3 high end F prospects in the system: Mantha, Larkin and Pulk. The rest are all in the maybe some day they MIGHT become something group. On the BL we have 4 of those same high end prospects: Oullett, Sproul, Jensen, and marchenko. Then a nice collection of maybes. 4 is still greater than 3, and you need more F's than D on a team. Now i am not against taking a Dman in the 1st if there is one available that is better than the F's available. At this point in time I don't see one, but it is very early. If we have a bad 10 game stretch we could fall inot the 15-20 pick area and there are a few really good options there. Someone could fall while other rise-which always happens. As i started with, I think it is a F in the first. D or G in the second. Then fill out the roster from there.

That is your opinion, which is fine. But both Oullett and Marchenko are ahead of Sproul already. Which is why they are already playing in detroit. But and this is key, there are already potential holes in the forward corp-which you agree with. McKee is a hope more than anything-we could use his toughness, Little Tuzzi and nastisak are yet to be determined. That is 3 openings in the top 12. The BL is still much deeper. Not only the guys in GR but also guys like Wheaton, Mcnulty, deHaas, Backman, etc...

Yes we drafted a lot of F's last year. But it is still a bit more of a need than D. But we also have to keep value in mind. Most of the F's in the area of the draft we should be picking seem to have higher upsides than the Dmen do. No of course if we move up or down in the order that can and will impact things. Same is true with trades. if we have to move say 2 of our top D prospects to pick up a top 4 RHed D, that changes the needs overnight. The pick could also be moved-even though Holland says he will not. Another thing to keep in mind is the overall quality of the draft. Not as good as 2013 was equal-maybe slightly better than 2014, but 2016 looks to be better than this year. If we go forward 5-6 years, what would be the best possible lineup? Nyquist-Larkin-Mantha Tatar-AA-Nastisak? Jurco-Sheehan-Pulk McKee (I know....)-Glendening-Abby Miller-Little Tuzzi Dekeyser-marcenko Smith-Jensen Oullett-Sproul Lashoff Marsek Coreu

I have nailed the last 2 first round picks in mantha and larkin. Novek at 6-1/180 is who I think we would take if there as of today, and he is not a big body. Average size in todays game. Yup, has is bass ackwards.

We need both-like every team does. Yes on D we need to find replacments/upgrades for: Kronwall, Ericsson, Q, and Kindl. But we do have Oullett, Sproul, Jensen, and Marchencko not far away. At F we have to replace: Z, Dat, franzen, Weiss, and Cleary. We currently have Mantha, Larkin, and Pulk as high end guys. Yes there are others in both groups that could show something down the road. Which is great. But Just looking at those that have made it to pro hockey and were our holes are over the next 5 or so seasons. Not to mention the value at each pick. The D prospects in the 20-30 range are far more limited IMHO than the guys I listed.

The answer is: depends. We could move 1, both, or neither. We have no idea how these 2 will develop over time. mantha is reminding us how big a jump it is to go from amatuer hockey to pro hockey this year. Yes Larkin looks great! In college. How about we let him play a pro game or 2 before we decide he is a top 6 F. Yes we all want all of our prospects to work out. But in trueth we all know 1 in 5 actually do. Now is there such a thing as an "untouchable"? No. Anyone can be moved. Money also comes into play. This is a cap sport. Players do get moved strictly because of money. So lets sit back, relax, and enjoy the development of these 2 guys.

I think he will get a cup of coffee or two before the end of the season. 1 more injury and he will get his chance. While Ferraro and Challahan have more experience and are playing well at GR neither is a NHL caliber player. Both were on waivers-everyone had a chance to get them for free and everyone passed. mantha just needs to keep working. he will be fine. In the long run and in an odd way, his broken leg will be a good thing. It forced him to start and play in GR all year. The plan was heading into camp that he was going to detroit. Kaser had a nice chat about all of this on the Huge show this week.

he needs to get 100% healthy, play a few games and then we can wait untill Howard is back. No need to do anything untill we face the issue of 3 healthy G's, which isn't the case right now. he has little trade value and is a UFA this summer. Just sit and wait.