Richdg

Not sure why so many wouldn't want kesler. I mean he only has more goals than anyone on our roster-injured or healthy. Is every bit as good as Helm defensively. So yes, If I can move helm as part of a package for kesler I would do it. That would be an upgrade of our team. Let's compare the 2 for a second. Helm is 27, doesn't score, makes 2.2 million for 2 more years, plays great D, but because of his style of play-he does get hurt a good amount. In 2009/10 Helm played 75 games. In 10/11 he played 82. Not bad. But since then he has played 68 in 11/12, 1 in 12/13 and this year he has played in 28. At his size can he ever be a guy that is counted on to play more than 70 games per year? Kesler on the other hand turns 30 this summer and is signed for 2 more year at 5 million per. His average season is about 2.5 times as many goals as Helm. Over the past few years he has played: 82, 82, 77, 17, and 62 games. They were both hurt last year for a lot of games. Now go forward a couple of years. What will it cost to keep these guys? I firmly believe that Helm will be in the 3.5-4 million per range in his next contract. Kesler will be around 6 million. At that point in time, which makes more sense? Now I have no idea what Holland's thoughts are on all of this. But these are the long term things that have to be thought about. Is a 3C really worth 4 million per? Is that money better spent and produce a better team than a 6 million per year 2C? The other part of course is, what goes with helm? of the younger guys that have made it up, Tatar is the best more IMHO. yes he scores goals. Should be good for 20-25 every year. But that is all he does. he is poor defensively, not very big or physical even though he plays with an edge, and is a LHed RW. I would keep Jurco, Nyquist, and Sheahan all ahead of him. Pulk should be able to come up and provide what tatar does, while being a RHed RW. So what to offer, ok simple: Helm, Tatar, Kindl, and a 2014 2nd round pick for Kesler. By moving Helm and Kindl we also free up about 4 million in cap space and then add a guy that should score 25-30 goals per year as a 2C.

We will "work the phones" and "kick the tires" and "not be willing to overpay" and in the end not make any moves.

If they agree to an extension when we pick them up, that is fine. But to give up anything for either and have them walk this summer, no. How much sense would it make to say.... trade tatar for vanek, and then have him leave in July? That would be dumb. I would rather trade for others-like kesler, then sign Vanek this summer as a UFA. Yes we have the cap space to do both.

We also have to look past this year. No rentals is and should be our motto. But good players that are here for 2+ more years, grab them if we can. We have more prospects than roster spots and a ton of cap room the next few years. True, not all prospects will work out. That being the case, how can you count on them? Or maybe better asked, which ones do you count on?

As a few others have mentioned, it takes time for prospects to turn into regulars or stars. Very rarely do guys come into the NHL and put up 80 points. The far more common route is a guy come up, plays 60ish games and has 30ish point. Next year more games and more points. 3rd year the same. That was the route with most of our stars now. It took them 3-5 years to hit their potential. So, are we a really good team in 3 or 4 years by standing pat? Maybe. First not all of our prospects will work out. Second Datsyuk is then gone. Third, will Z's back hold up? Fourth, will Franzen still be around or will concussions have ended his career by then? Four years from now, Kronwall may also be done. same with Howard. E will be in his mid 30's. Most if not all of those guys will playing fewer games and putting up fewer points as they travel through their mid and late 30's. In other words, we will be treading water.

One of the very first questions every GM has to answer is: What are we as a team? SC contender? PO bound team? rebuilding/building? So what are the RW's? We are not a SC contender. The answer is some combination of PO bound/rebuilding. IMHO we need to add 2-3 top level talents to become a SC caliber team again. Finding 2-3 top level talents isn't that many and could be done over the next 12 months. 1 now at this years trade deadline, 1 via UFA this summer, and 1 before next years trade deadline. The question then becomes the how do we get these 2-3 more top level talents. We have some young guys that COULD develop into top level talents, but that does take time. Over the next 3 years, some of the Nyquist, tatar, Jurco, mantha, Pulk, group will develop. It could be 1 or all 5, or somewhere in between. There are several others that could be secondary guys/checkers. Helm, Abby, Sheahan, Callahan, nastisauk, and Andersson. So, do we stand pat and wait for the youth? That is what I expect. Not the path I would take, but it does seem to be the way Holland wants to go.

There is the old saying: a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush. we have several young F's that we HOPE will become good players in the NHL some day. Then there are guys like Kesler that ARE good players in the NHL already. Now I doubt we get him or any other top player that is rumored to be available. Don't think Holland has the stones to do it. I would LOVE to be wrong.

McKee has returned to action and is earning praise from coach Murry. he has even scored a goal on 3 shots working as a F playing in close to the G. We all know he is big, tough, and fast. If he can turn into our bigger and tougher version of Matt Martin 4 or 5 years from now... I will be giddy!

Ok, this thread was painfull to read for the last 4 or 5 pages...... But out of my love for the RW's I did it! main what happens with a little beer in the early morning! LOL! 1. Myers is only 24. That is very young. He needs to improve his skating. That is something that the RW's have always been good at teaching. Also, you could do a retained deal for him. 2. Edler. He has a bad back, and it has caused him a lot of issues the past couple of years. I was reading a story from last Spring-when he was extended, about how he wasn't locked out, so that Van's medical staff could continue to work with him on his back. 3. Yes there are many deals we could make. I am still in the "doubt we make any major deals" camp. if we do, it could be great or bad. We need to upgrade our talent level-I think everyone agrees on that. But trade deadline deals are hard to do and cost a lot. 4. If we were to go hunting for big game, yes Kesler and Edler together would be an awesome pick up, but not without a few worries. Yes it would cost us something in the Smith, Kindl, Oullett, Helm, Nyquist or tatar, and Pulk or Jarnkrok neighborhood. Van wants to get younger, cheaper, and faster. Those are the type of guys they would want.

Myers is listed as 6-8. Yes the everyone is listed taller and heavier than they really are. but that is his listed height. he is RHed which is also very much a need. But at 5.5 million per year and needs work.....not sure I would go for it. Maybe on a more competitive team.....

Not sure we can move Weiss even if we wanted too/someone else wanted him. he does have some NMC/NTC protection. Not sure if it is full limited etc..... I would be happy to have Kesler. But it has to be a reasonable trade. 3 for 1 is fine, but not tatar, nyquist, and jurco. Not for Kesler. ovie maybe.....

Erhoff is a good player with a bad contract. No on Myers. He is failing fast because he is so tall and uncoordinated. Not sure if he will ever "get it back".

BB, welcome to the fun! Mantha will be in GR when his season ends. It has nothing to do with his talent. It is all about agreements between the NHL and CHL. Now when will he be ready to play in Detroit? None of us know. he could earn a spot in training camp next fall. Most likely he will be in GR to start the season. After that to many variables to know. Injuries could play a factor. production by other young players that will be in Detroit. But if mantha comes in and say scores 20 goals in his first 30 games, he could force his way up. he needs to develop his strength for the NHL. Currently he is listed as 6-5/205 by his Junior team. That is very thin. he does need to gain another 20 pounds of muscle-same with Jurco. 10-15 pounds for him would be awesome. So time will tell.

ET what the hell are you talking about?

Not surprised at all You just can't let top 3/4 Dmen walk.

The Blues just made the move that teams that want to and can win the SC make. There is the big difference between us and them. They are there, ready to win it all. We have work to do to get back to that level.

Franzen has 9 goals in his last 3 games vs the sens. Or was it at the sens. if only...........

There was a story up on NBCsports.com saying that the Wings, pens, and a couple of others were all trying to land Kesler.

How? well you start with something like this: Smith, Kindl, Oullett, Helm, Nyquist, and Pulkinnan. Cap works as well with Z on LTIR. They get 3 young Dman and 3 young F's. makes them a much faster team which is something they are keen to do. Now would that be enough? No idea, most likely a little more is needed.

Yes on Lids. He was so smart and had such great instincts. Something that can't be taught. He just had it.

Kesler is also hurt. Again. Has a cast on his hand from the Olympics. That being said what is he? 29 year old RHed C, 6-2/205, typical year is 25 goals and about 40 assists, plays physical, does play hurt. Signed for 2 more years at 5 million cap hit per year. He does fit needs and would be a hockey move. That being said, he will be very expensive. With Z out until the PO's we are one of the few teams that can afford to take on his contract. BTW Michigan kid as well. Now would Holland dare to be bold and go after both Kesler and Edler at the same time? That would fix multiple problems at the same time. Be very expensive but make us a better team. Any prospect not named Mantha would be fine by me. Both of these guys have several good years left.

Mantha was ranked 15-20 in the 1st round last year by everyone. Nastisauk was considered a 2/3 round pick but was rising fast. There are no secrets in this. I don't remember were AA was ranked. Fact is Little Tuzzi was outside the top 200 by everyone and we passed on tons of guys that could be stars in the NHL some day to take him. That makes it a bad pick. hayden was there, Fasching, many others. But that is done. Now it is time for the 2014 draft. Some will agree and some disagree with me, which is fine, these are just my opinions. But as I have mentioned when looking at our system and team needs over the enxt couple of years, we still need more F's. Yes if a super drops, or we end up picking 1st, that changes things. I still believe we end up between 14-20 in the draft. There are several good RHed F's that will be there and very much fit positions of major need.

need more goals. 1 isn't going to get it done very often. effort has been good.

Gap control or positioning are 2 of the hardest things to learn in any sport. Where do I need to be on each ply is a very tough thin to learn, because it changes every play. Every forward you are covering plays at a different pace, and they differ their paces each play. Some guys have the natural feel if you will, others really have to work to learn it.

Since he didn't have to move, bert! Now sign him to an extension! LOL