kickazz

Your opinion is meaningless, I had to fix it with facts Mike.

Fixed. You are my Mike Pence. And I am your Donald Duck.

That's basically what it is. At least in some part of his career and could be in the future.

No. Substantial evidence on a legit definition not a made up one to cop out of an argument as "opinion". You can keep attempting to spin this any way you want lol. I've already said I'm interested in evidence-based theories. And this is common practice. And "always gotta be right complex"? Captain obvious, that's exactly who I am lol. Who on this board isn't? Go look at the last 3 pages, you will see 3 people arguing and neither one backing down and think they're right. And looking at your post history, you don't either. You (and a few others here) may benefit from the following read. Interesting perspective from a philosophy professor. Of course you'll predictably probably shoot it down or say "it's stupid". http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

Just checked Google.com says you're incorrect, resorting to passive aggressiveness and annoyed Look, say whatever you want, you can think the earth us flat for all I care. Doesn't make it true. And that's my point. If that bothers you, or makes you annoyed that someone like me wants substantial evidence and won't agree until that evidence is provided, then get over it. A message board certainly is a place for people to question others and challenge each other. I find it hilarious that the same people who give frank etc. crap for his opinions are getting so defensive about their opinions being challenged, and told that it doesn't mean anything.

Not really. If one has an opinion, and can back it you with data, then that's good enough for me. But repeatedly spewing out that a player is an "offensive defenseman" when the data says otherwise is going to get picked apart. Nice try on spinning it though. Apprently I did have to spell it out. Oh well.

Anti-opinion when it comes to trying to confuse them/push them as facts during a debate. Do I need to "spell that out for you" or do you have the ability to interpret that from previous posts?

So, what exactly is the whole "Holland talked THAT MUCH s*** about him"? Did he insult his mother, grandfather, and sisters husband or something? Seriously what kind of s*** did Holland talk about Mrazek?? Fill us in on the scoop. I feel like you're coming up with theories in your head to justify why Mrazek wasn't selected by Vegas lol. Other than the actual fact that Mrazek didn't get selected because they had better options available...?

Watch the ending

His optimism is truth. Furthest we got in the playoffs since what? 2009? And we did it right after Lidstrom left. Oh the irony. Would be even more ironic if this crap team that needs a rebuild ends up getting past the second round with Daley

Oh please. he's all about presenting opinion to the masses without presenting facts or figures. I'm the complete opposite. I'm surprised you don't know this. But then again, I'm not sure how much the Canadian news media shows him there. I'm anti-opinion and pro-fact. I try not to base my judgement without numbers, figures, and substantial data (sometimes I do, not everyone's perfect. But if you really want to know, just ask Dickie how many times I've asked him for sources). And I certainly don't go off hunches (don't confuse that with optimism) or something that happened in the past and equate them to happening in the future (something the billionaire does on a daily basis). If you think my debating style is like Trump, then you must not know the man. He doesn't even debate. He screams. And he's ALL about his opinion. fixed

Oh my bad. Let me call it something more official. Indirect Ad hominem? Lack of a rebuttal? Unsupported statement of opinion? Lack of a fundamental component of a reasoned debate? Emotionally-charged? Ignoratio elenchi?

Alright good. So then we agree that the Daley signing isn't going to affect Sproul's future whatsoever? Cool. I say your opinion is wrong and we make the playoffs within the next 3 years. And making the playoffs automatically makes us a contender towards the Stanley cup. One of the 16 teams contending for the cup in best of seven series. You like to tag the whole "my opinion" thing as if it's going to bail you out. Not really. Opinions can be right and wrong. And what I'm saying is. You're wrong (not about the cup contender thing, but about the Sproul thing). I certainly hope you are right about Sproul down the road though. And I CERTAINLY hope that your opinion is wrong about us not being a contender within the next 3 years. Btw if the following (below) is an opinion; it's not much of a Newsflash then lol. It's not news (which generally is supposed to be factual information). It's not flash. It's nothing. Because opinions are meaningless and facts are meaningful. "Newsflash. We won't be contenders for the next 3 years (aka duration of Daley's contract)." "A judgment is said to be true when it conforms to the external reality" - Aquinas. Ya'll can ponder on that.

What are you? Donald Trump? Reverting to name calling in a debate lol. I gave you that analogy because even normal words weren't getting to you so I had to revert to a troll analogy (hoping maybe that's what it would take). And even with all that, and even with Buppy's last post, you won't get it. Label Smith, Jurco, Sproul however you want, if they aren't factually performing that way then it doesn't mean anything. It's just your made up opinion that isn't true. Factually. And I think the point that hits it home most is that you call Ericsson a defensive defensmen and Sproul and offensive defenseman yet both their offensive production have been similar (apparently). Don't care, he wasn't an offensive defenseman in the NHL. You guys kept calling him one WHILE he was in the NHL. And he isn't one, hasn't been one, and likely will not be one. And that's exactly my point about Sproul. You're doing the same with Sproul as you did with Smith. As whoever said in the earlier post. "Sproul is a nothing". A prospect that MIGHT become something down the road. Obviously the expectation is he becomes an offensive defenseman. That's the hope. But he hasn't proven anything yet.

Hard to tell isn't it.

Exactly. If you are good enough to be on the team, you will be. Regardless of who you are. Larkin, Mantha and AA are all "kids" that made it. Miller got dumped in GR. Ferraro said bye bye, Andersson moved on. Hell even Cleary got the boot. Ericsson and Kronwall even played on the third pairing at many points this year! Kronwall eventually was bumped back up because he actually started playing well. Have people forgotten these facts? Our own veterans we're demoted in favor of the younger players. Of course people would like Ericsson to be scratched, but that's another bump that Blashill has to face.

Because I am predicting that you will most likely will have a false premise that Sproul was mishandled because of Daley being signed. When in reality the Daley signing has nothing to do with Sproul's development. Sproul's development didn't start in 2017/18. It started years ago. He should be mostly "developed" and ready by now. May need more experience to get acclimated to the NHL level like anyone does. But they Daley signing has nothing to do with how he's handled. If Sproul is good enough to be in the NHL, he will be in the NHL. If he's not he won't. Again, spewing out opinion as if it's facts. According to Ken Holland we very well can be contenders THIS YEAR. That's why he's signing guys like Daley. He wants us to make the playoffs. And if you're in the playoffs you are a contender. Is Holland right? I don't know. But to say we won't be contenders for the next 3 years? Where do you get that from? Show me the psychic powers bro I sure as hell need it to find out if all this pollution in Detroit is going to give me cancer.

I didn't packpeddle lol. For some reason both you and Toby were assuming that we (Buppy and I) were talking about juniors and minors.(maybe he was at some point, I can't speak for him). Buppy gave some stats out and I merely interpreted it my way. Look at my exact quote below. . This was my original post yesterday early in the AM. Hell I even gave you a wild analogy of Superman (mostly because I wanted to be random). Have you forgotten? I said specifically that just because someone might have been labeled as a Superman/superhuman at a younger age because he lifted more than his peers, but failed to replicate that as he got older; I.E his peers ended up catching up to him or surpassing him; does that still label that individual as a superman/superhuman? I.E just because Sproul was an "offensive defenseman" in juniors, as compared to his peers, does it still mean he is one currently if he isn't actually producing like one? According to the stats that we're shown, he was inferior to XO on 5 on 5 scoring in past year. Posted yesterday at 08:56 AM (edited) · Report post That is such a poor way if debating. It makes no sense at all dude. That's like saying "I'm superman" but then not being able to lift even half my body weight. Wtf? Does that sill make me superman?? Just because I gave myself that title?? If, as Buppy pointed out, Sproul really isn't producing as an offensive defenseman, or playing like one. Then he's obviously failing to fullfil that title... My point is exactly what I said pages ago. People push their opinions as if they are facts. For years you and Billy boy (and a lot of fans in general) called Smith an offensive defenseman. Factually speaking he can't even produce 20 points. Not much of an offensive defenseman when you don't actually produce any offense.

Oh my god, we actually have someone who thinks the alternative is possible and is open to it. Woohooo! Newsflash. He is part of our future. For the next 3 years. And if he signs an extension after that it could be until his retirement. The Daley signing isn't like a 6 month lease or something.

Lol we both know you're covering up your argument with semantics now. Based of the info that was given in the thread about Sproul, yeah he's not really an NHL caliber offensive defenseman. You can hope for it sure but it's not looking like he is compared to some of his own teammates. Far as Smith, you praised him for his offensive prowess. Guy can't even score 20 points. Fact. Far as Jurco, you just make excuses for him, He sucks. Get over it dude. Is Jurco a toddler? He can't carry his own skills and weight? Blame the Red Wings for him sucking? That's ridiculous. I'm 120% sure you're going to blame the Red Wings for "mishandling" Sproul if it turns out Sproul sucks too. Guy is a 24 year old grown man and somehow it's going to end up being the organizations fault. We'll look back at it years from now... "Yeah guys that Daley signing ruined Sproul".

I sure as hell do, except they aren't opinions, they're facts. But not about something that hasn't even come into fruition. Rasmussen, Daley. Wtf do I know how it will pan out. You and others are already writing it off. Excuse me for trying to be positive about it and trying to see Holland's perspective. But yeah your "opinions" on Jurco, Smith, etc. I have vehemently disagreed with them because there's facts proving your "opinion" wrong about them. Same thing about my rants about Jonathan Toews. Opinion from TSN and homer fans are that he is a top 100 NHL player. But he's not, factually, statistically, visually blah blah blah. He isn't.

No lol. You only revert to "my opinion" when you no longer want to discuss it and the facts are being pointed out as untrue. But until then, you're really trying to convince (someone or yourself) that what you're saying is right. "My opinion" is a great exit strategy in a debate. But I'm a savage so I'll go ahead and say your opinion on the Daley signing is: Wrong. ...Or right? I can't tell because for a bunch of posts you said the signing isn't a good one for the team. But then a few posts ago you just said it's great for the team lol.

First, Zetterberg was a two-way forward since his junior career. He started killing penlaties for the Red Wings since his rookie season. In fact he was considered for Selke candidacy well before Datsyuk was in his career (finished 9th in the 2005-06 season, then 7th in 06-07 season, as a comparison Datsyuk didnt even finish top 10 until he actually won it in the 08 season). Second, you're just adding to my point. Considered an offensive defenseman in his juniors and minors career. Whether he lives up to it in the NHL is another story. This is reminding me a lot about Smith. Supposedly an offensive defenseman who can't even put up 20 points and he's played how many NHL games now..? Just checked: 309 NHL games holy s***

It was a simple analogy but still an anaology nonetheless and makes the point. And it doesn't matter WHO gives the title; so not sure what the purpose of nitpicking that out is lol. Lol I'm going to keep going with the analogy because it's fun. Say that someone is considered superman/superhuman when they were younger because when they were a kid and teen they were stronger than other kids their age. But say when the kids got older, the other kids in the age group caught up, and surpass the supposed superman kid. Is that kid still considered superman? Or does it mean he was once given a title which turned out to NO LONGER BE TRUE when he got older and hit some real situations? Yeah. Just because a player was an Offensive defenseman statistically in some junior and minor league doesn't mean he is one in the major league. The title doesn't just stick with you if you have nothing to show for it. Here's a more legit analogy related to hockey. When Zetterberg came into the league he was considered a goal scorer by 2008. Scored, 31, 33, 39, 43 goals (5th highest in the league!). But as time went on, his goal scoring dropped to 20s range and his assists started to pick up. Now tell me, is Zetterberg, who was once considered a goal scorer still considered one? No. He isn't. Nowadays you hear him considered as a "playmaker", a "set up guy". Why? Because statistically he no longer is a goal scorer. In fact, statistically he's actually a playmaker. Same thing for Nyquist and Tatar. One is starting to be considered a goal scorer while the other is starting to be considered a playmaker. I'll let you guess who is who. Titles don't mean a thing unless there's something to show for it. And it certainly isn't a permanent thing.

That is such a poor way if debating. It makes no sense at all dude. That's like saying "I'm superman" but then not being able to lift even half my body weight. Wtf? Does that sill make me superman?? Just because I gave myself that title?? If, as Buppy pointed out, Sproul really isn't producing as an offensive defenseman, or playing like one. Then he's obviously failing to fullfil that title...