kickazz

Nielsen will likely produce as much as Toews and is probably almost as good defensively and we're paying him like $5 million dollars less aren't we? Our salary cap sucks but Toews is one overpaid dude. Toews would have been a 3rd line center at best on our 2008 squad. I kinda hope Nielsen lights it up at the all star game. I'll be rooting for him. Might even watch if he gets picked to do the breakaway challenge.

Great to see Howe still number 1 with adjustment tho.

Toews is the next Dustin Brown. His decline is bad and it's about to get worse. People always held Brown on a pedestal and overlooked Kopitar and Carter*. Kane, Kieth, Panarin are the MVPs of that team. Toews is a good leader and faceoff man. Offense is average. Defense is elite.

Kopitar and Bergeron > Toews imo. Kopitar better offensive, Bergeron better defensive. All three 2-way players but Toews is the only overrated one.

Wow lol comparing Toews to Sakic. It's people like you who overrate Toews. And it's people like us who call you out for ridiculous comparisons. Exactly.. It must be real nice to have Kieth, Hossa, Kane , Sharp (previously) Panarin, Anisomov, and Crawford on your team.

Did they start cutting goalie equipment size yet? Or is it next season? I have a bet going that he'll surpass Gretzky's goal totals (as long as he remains healthy and plays in the NHL till hes 40) with someone.

It's true Nielsen technically is one of the few that has not ENTIRELY regressed. He's actually been very good on the faceoffs which I did not expect since he's a career 48% guy. 54.6% this year.

Well, I guess once Blashill is fired we'll see how the next coach utilizes him. Hahahha, this made me laugh out loud. At least there's some humor in the truth.

I'm not avoiding anything. That hasn't been a discussion about the reasons of his struggles but merely about his production and linemates. But if you want me to talk about the reason he's struggled then it's most likely because he's not an NHL caliber player as of now. Maybe eventually but I don't know that. He was a good AHL player that seems to be having a hard time transitioning into the NHL. Even with having the linemates he did (Glendening, Miller, Ott) he should still be able to individually produce. Glendening and Miller can both put up numbers for their 4th line level . So why can't Jurco? If Jurco actually had better production than Miller and Glendening then I'd probably agree that they are the reason he's being held back. But on the contrary they are outproducing him . This has become more about Jurco rather than his linemates. If you asked me in 2015, I would have probably said that the other two guys must be holding him back. But Jurco's decline has been pretty bad. It's alarming that Luke Glendening had 21 points in 81 games last year while Jurco had 6 points in 44 games. It's alarming that Miller currently has 6 points in 30 games and Jurco has 0 in 11. And you know I'm not a fan of either Glendening or Miller so there's no reason for me to try to make them look good. As of now I think Sheahan has been a colossal failure (this season) and Jurco just can't help himself and is likely going to be exiting the NHL sooner rather than later. Just like Pulkinnen did. I won't be upset if he proves me wrong though, I'd probably be very happy because we need all the help we can get. If a player is scratched like Jurco is, it means the club doesn't see him as a suitable player on the roster. When he's put into the roster he needs to produce. If he doesn't produce he's likely going to get scratched again and again and again. There's literally no way around this scenario unless there were injuries. Sheahan is likely in the lineup because he can play both center and wing. Centers are far too valuable in this league compared to wingers. And I'm sure Jurco's confidence is in the gutter right now. But whose problem is that? His and his alone. Ain't Blashbaldy's problem. I sound blunt but you know that's exactly how these people think. They got their own jobs to worry about. Anyways my original point is that making excuses for Jurco and pretending like he's not at fault is taking it a bit too far (Dickie's original post). Sure he's been dealt a bad hand. Sure he hasn't been utilized like some people hoped he would have. But that is no excuse for him not being able to show some signs of being an NHL caliber player. Blame Blashill and Babcock all you want, ultimately the responsibility is Jurco's to prove himself. Ain't nobody going to do it for him.

I was responding to you that I made no claim who was better between Miller and Jurco but simply that Miller has a better scoring rate. But I am comparing AA to Jurco brcause the claim is Jurco has bad linemates and that's the reason he's underperforming. That doesn't really add up when you look other players who have bad line mates. The others are able to carry their own weight. I do wonder though, with all the hype with Jurco and him supposedly being a good hockey player, why is a 4th line terrible hockey player like Miller outproducing him (and Sheahan)? Not like Miller gets any skilled players to help him. And like I pointed out earlier, Jurco did better with Andersson and Glendening than he did with Sheahan and Nyquist. Jurco just isn't a good NHL player right now. You can blame Glendog all you want but no matter who he plays with, his play doesn't vastly improve. A lot of you are basically asking for him to get carried. Sorry but Blashcock aint lettin that happen. His best way to maintain himself on lineup was to be a big body and be a checker. He couldn't do it. You say he needs skilled linemates, well the skilled linemates are being used for other things like getting themselves some points and tryng to get wins. Jurco has to find a way on his own or he'll quickly be out of the NHL.

Incredibly scary that his stats are that bad

At best they could reunite the Sheahan, Tatar, Jurco line since all 3 are underperforming but have previous chemistry. But in order to do that you would have to instill something called a "Brain" into Jeff Blashill's head. Mantha and Zetterberg need a better linemate anyways. Maybe Nyqyuist might mesh well with them.

It doesn't matter if Miller or Jurco are better. I'm just pointing out facts and the numbers are there for everyone to see. 0 points in 11 games. I've seen AA score on the 4th line with limited minutes and play with the same crappy linemates Jurco gets. Seen AA scratched for games, come back and score goals. Nobody asked AA to be a grinder when he was on the 4th line. Nobody asked Jurco to simply be a grinder on the 4th line either. I'm not sure where this narrative is coming from. If he has the ability to score, he should be able to do it. Anyways I did some digging quickly to look at what linemates Jurco has been with overall. Someone else could probably do this in more depth. But here his linemates since 2015/16 season. 53 TOI with Andersson and Glendog but also a chunk with AA, Nyquist, Helm, Sheahan and Tatar with Glendening on a line with Helm. His CF% was actually worse with Sheahan and Nyquist than it was with Andersson and Glendening combo. The pic below is just a variation of the one above from another website And here are his combinations in the current season: Linemates with Glendening but also with Nielsen, Larkin, AA. So no, Jurco isn't just plugged in with bad linemates, his TOI shows he's played with other linemates plenty of times. The numbers are there. Ironically it looks like Babcock actually used Jurco with Miller and Glendening more than Blashill did.

Isn't there a certain amount of ganes rookies have to play? Does Mantha even have enough games played this season?

Wow. I would have been so down to do that. Sheahan or Jurco.

I've heard in the past that the franchise (Ken Holland) did the same thing for Z (either 2010 or 2011), I'd have to dig up the article but I'm fairly certain TSN reported that Holland requested the league to keep Z out of the game due to "bumps and bruises" if I remember the phrase. Now that I think about it though, Nielsen will be an excellent representation for the Red Wings for the breakaway/shootout challenge. He was after all the best shootout guy in the league (is he still?), better than Datsyuk was as far as numbers go.

Not at all. I don't even think Toews is as popular as Kane is to the Blackhawks, although I could be wrong. Impressively Kane still maintains popularity in Chicago with all the accusations made against him.

Well, you're saying that now because his production has been lower. But even when his production was a tad bit better, it was harder to convince people that he wasn't as good as people made him out to be. The only difference is, now there's better numbers to prove it.

Officially picked in 07 and 08 and didn't appear for injury. And in 2010 and/or 2011 they requested NHL not to have him on initial roster so he could rest. Post 2006 his back was tweaked so I think they did what the could to keep him out of those games. I remember reading a lot of articles on the All-star stuff and how certain players somehow got out of it. I don't know if I believe it. Anyways, particularly on Z I think LebBrun from TSN talked a bit about it. He's not a kid Frank, he's almost 29 years old lol. He better act mature... You act like he's still that 20 year old captain or something. And he's been trending downwards for the last 3 years. He's probably exiting his prime. Just hope he doesn't turn into the next Dustin Brown but he's headed that way with his point production.

Also they should have picked Vanek over Nielsen.

Probably turned it down if that sort of stuff happens. But I don't think it does. At best perhaps an exception for older players to keep their health in consideration. ----------- I'm glad people are seeing that Toews has been an overrated player and held on a pedestal. Hell I'm glad Toews himself admits he doesn't deserve it. I've been bitching about how overrated he is for like 3 years. Might be the MOST overrated player since he entered the league.

Well, if was short term I'd rather have Orr. If it was long term probably Lidstrom. For instance if I'm going for a rental at trade deadline, I'd go for Orr.

Longevity sure but Lidstrom also played in an era where modern medicine and workout regimens improved exponentially. Sidney Crosby's injury he suffered years ago would have been career ending in the 60s and 70s. But here he is still racking up points and writing his own legend. Orr's knees would likely have faired better under the surgeons of the 21st century

I'm not even sure if it's a question of "fair shot" for Jurco anymore. Even Drew Miller has a better scoring rate than Jurco and Miller is a 4th line regular. Same with Ott.

Jurco has 0 points in 11 games and yet excuses stll made and everyone else truthfully shat on. Loving the bias here.