kickazz

Imagine if Howard was in net and gave up the lead and got scored on in overtime

The team won't win many games when you keep putting terrible possession players on ice with 1 minute to go with a 1 goal game.

GLENDOG THE FACEOFF KING YEA

Double post

So you're cherry picking that fact that I said he was pulled 5 games instead of 4? Okay I can do that too. You stated Holtby was pulled 6 times even though one of them he wasn't "pulled" but actually left the game on his own decision. So there, go re-read your old post about "use correct stats, if you don't beer league blah blah" whatever it was and follow your own advice. It's not a generalization if a goalie is off his game for 1-1.5 months. Call it an upwards/downwards trend, call it inconsistency, call it a bad stretch or call it bad performance; regardless it wasn't something you want out of a starting goalie and it's definitely not something a goalie wants to bring himself. LoL. first, you don't have to" analyze video of every game", you only need to analyze the goals given up against which probably is a 30 second video per goal. Second, it's actually a thing. Video analysis. They have coaches for that sort of stuff. It exists. Staring at numbers without visual context isn't going to be a convincing argument. There's a multitude of things to look at. Were the goals that were given up "soft goals"? Was the goalie slow to react? If so was that the case in the other goals given up? Maybe the goalie's reactionary rate is off more than usual. Was the goalie out of position more often than not? Is the goalie mishandling the puck or misreading the plays more often than not? If so that goalie is clearly having an issue and a decline in performance and it was likely right to pull him at the time. At no point was Hasek below .800, maybe just once, Price was below .800 twice and Holtby like twice. Mrazek fell below .8 and even below .7 in 3 games during the 2nd half of the season. And even the times they were below .8 it would be a gap of at least like 10 or 12 games unlike in Mrazek's case. Price and Holtby's sv% were more consistent where every so often they'd have a game below .9 but Mrazek went through long stretches where he would sustain a sv% of > .9 but then all of a sudden every 3 or 4 games he would have a dip in his sv% in the last few months of the season. That's inconsistency. He went from having a Vezina like performance for a few months to a completely different goalie. Maybe his "great" performance was just an outlier and ended up being unsustainable.

Ego.

Well they're corsi is really bad because it's usually below team average and now that our entire team bad, theirs looks even worse. I also don't think they get as many hard matchups anymore, I'm pretty sure I see Nielsen's line more often against the top lines. But that point is moot since they're still +3, +2 and even. It could be their stretch of games where Miller scored a couple goals that buffed their stats. The question is, is that sustainable? Because Miller has been a career minus guy. Same with Ott. I like Ott btw. I just don't like the combination of these three players. It's going to lead to issues in the long run most likely.

Lol again with the generalizations. He was pulled because of some bad performances. His bad performance came after 2 months of great performances. Trended upwards, then all of a sudden downwards for about 1 to 1.5 months. That's inconsistency. How many times were all the starting goalies in the league pulled in 2015/2016 and how long a stretch of bad performances did they have. Apparently, Jeff Blashill did have something to say about Mrazek's consistency, albeit in the most politically correct way possible, clearly alluding to his strentch in Feb/March last season. “He’s got great confidence,” Wings coach Jeff Blashill said. “He’s got a real short memory which is a real good thing as a goalie. He's got real good athletic ability. The No. 1 thing is fundamentals and technique. As his fundamentals and technique improve, that drives consistency. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/10/01/detroit-red-wings-petr-mrazek/91390488/

I mean neither goalie has actually done well when the team was bad. Both have gone through stretches of being good but not over the course of entire season. Neither of them are Dominic Hasek. Only Hasek could play on a bad team, carry them, win the Vezina and the Hart trophy. The way I see it, both goalies have shown flashes of bad. Both have shown flashes of good. Howard imo is less versatile, Mrazek likely has the higher potential.

I gave you stats and you conveniently ignored it and took the easy way out by saying "just because they're pulled doesn't mean they're bad". You should take own advice about the whole rant you went on about with the definition of "context" a few posts ago. Almost every game Mrazek got pulled out of last year had to do with his poor performance. Context. And lol, don't give that bs about how it's a team sport. A team is as strong as their weakest link. And some of the games Mrazek was pulled out of was EARLY into their start. 2 goals on 5 shots, 2 goals on 7 shots. When a player plays bad, he gets scratched, benched, pulled. Regardless of whether or not it's a team sport. Goalies can get pulled because of poor performance. Some games they get pulled because of defense performance, sometimes pulled for health reasons (i.e Holtby due to dehydration) Quit generalizing arguments. Step by step process. If the numbers are showing 2 on 5, 2 on 7, it most likely to be a goalie issue. Next step would probably be to confirm that hypothesis and actually look at video replay to see. CONTEXT. Sometimes people need to stop staring at the numbers and actually take a look at how the numbers visually represented themselves. It might not be easy to do that for corsi but it's definitely something that can be done to see how a goalie performed in making or not making saves. Just staring at numbers is Bush League Geekdom edition. Look below, both goals given up are weak. He was clearly off his game. As a side note, I recall your stats and your stance was that Pulkinnen would be a great player. Last I checked he was waived twice and buried in the minors.

Yet it's a problem because when the season is ending, bad games in a "relatively narrow time" is an issue. Call it whatever you want, consistency or whatever, that needs to not happen. So let me get this straight, when a goalie lets in like 3-4 goals in 10-15 shots in 4 games over a span of just 1 - 1.5 months, you don't consider that poor play? So what's the point of pulling the goalie in hockey? Do you honestly think you know more than coaches?

Well if wins are so important then why has Howard taken so much crap the last few years? He's 176-88 in wins/loss. Do the rules only apply when someone dislikes a goalie? Mrazek has a worse win/loss ratio at 46-30. GAA/Sv% the two most important goalie stats go out the window because it will make Mrazek look bad am I right? He's bottom of the league for GAA, he better fix it soon. As of now, Howard is ranked number 1 in Sv% AND GAA in the league. And it's not even close, Only Tukka Rask is closer in Sv% and he's still off by 2 points.

Well P = MD In Mrazeks case P = SG (starting goalie)

So Holtby "honors" and Mrazek just "passes"?

"Best 4th line in the NHL" And the source isn't even Winging it in Motown! "On their first night together they didn’t disappoint, going -13 in shot attempts in just six minutes of five-on-five ice time." Like holy s*** man how do you even allow 13 shots in 6 minutes?!?!? There are fans who will still try to justify that 13 shots in 6 minutes is okay because this line can block shots. If Scott Bowman was still around he'd smack the crap out of these guys for allowing so many shots.

Imo this is a weak example for a supporting argument for Mrazek. Holtby was pulled 6 times in 66 games over the course of the season. Petr Mrazek at one point was pulled 5 times in 14 games. Over the course of 54 games, that's an entire 1 - 1.5 month of games that were bad. For Holtby, in 66 games he was pulled only 3 times early the game due to performance issues. Additionally, Holtby pulled himself out of a game on January 17th, 2016 due to dehydration. Since his dehydration incident, his numbers suffered in the month of Jan/Feb in which he was pulled again in February 24th. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/caps-beat-rangers-holtby-leaves-early/2016/01/17/23e6978e-bd6c-11e5-9443-7074c3645405_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capitals-insider/wp/2016/02/20/braden-holtbys-numbers-have-dipped-slightly/ http://www.thescore.com/news/986444 According to hockey reference - Holtby pulled: 12-18-2015 (pulled early) 1-16-2016 (pulled early) 1 -17-2016 (dehydrated, pulled himself out - still got the win) 2-13-2016 (pulled after 2nd period) 2-24-2016 (pulled after 3 goals on 18 shots, very controversial decision, Holtby was fuming on the bench over this) 3-20-2016 (pulled after playing 47 minutes of the game) So as you can see, 4 out of his 6 times he was pulled was after his dehydration incident. One could argue that his perfmance dip could have been due to his health because up until then he was fine. Again, the one time pulled due to injury, and still got the win. Even at his worst he was pulled 4 times over the course of 3 months. On the other hand Mrazek was pulled 5 times just between Feb 14 and March 29th. If Mrazek was "as consistent as anyone" then "anyone" being pulled 5 times in 45 days would be the norm. Which it isn't.

Leading the league in the most average way possible.

Mrazek still learning imo. He's one of the few goalies out there that can adapt really well to different situations. But like I said, inconsistency is there.

I think some people are in denial about Mrazek. He's one of the most inconsistent goalies in recent Red Wings history. The guy has already been pulled like 8 times in his career and hasn't even had 2 full seasons yet. I mean I like the guy, he's amazing when he's at his best. But come on, when he's bad... he's REALLY bad. Sometimes goalies have bad games, no big deal, but Mrazek has gone through long stretches of being bad. This is exactly why having Howard actually works out. Yes he should be the #1. No he should not be playing 70 games.

Even if that was true (which I don't recall it being the case), the difference here is that we're a playoff team that wants to get into playoffs every year. They don't have a losing mentality, and management would probably never accept that way of thinking. They would rather win than force an inconsistent goalie to become consistent by playing him 70 games. Remember how Howard lost the starting goalie position? Because he was inconsistent. They played Mrazek instead. Now I don't think Howard all of a sudden becomes a starting goalie, I just think they will continue to treat him as a reliable backup.

Lol? Theres no panic button. But this is why we don't treat Howard as a complete backup. Mrazek isn't a consistent goalie yet. And neither was Carey Price when he first started fyi.

Whoever asked why Howard had played more games than the average backup, it's because of this.

Chill out lol.

The organization is trying to win games, not groom goalies in back to backs. Competition is tight in the league, not to mention we have two starting goaltenders on paper and salary. It would be foolish to waste one of them when he's playing well.

Well even if we take that excuse into account, when MSU officially became "Michigan State University" in 1964, Michigan has beaten them 34 times out of 51 games that's still a 66% winning rate, same as the overall rate of 69 games out of the 105 game played give or take. We should continue the discussion in the Water Cooler or something though. ------ I watched parts of tonight's game, might watch it in DVR later to analyze the loss. I did see that Zetterberg lead in ice time again. That shouldn't happen...