kickazz

If Datsyuk gets in then Zetterberg should too. I can't think of a reason why people would think Zetterberg doesn't get in and Datsyuk does? Is it because Datsyuk was flashier? Had better hands? If you look at their production it's very similar even though Zetterberg had the inferior linemates. Zetterberg was also the better playoff performer and had better playoff and international feats (which are taken into consideration). They've both finished top in scoring 2 times in their career and both have finished top in goals or assists 6 times each in their career. Zetterberg also finished top 5 in goals in 2008. Conn Smythe, and international accomplishments will probably be enough and I wouldn't rule out him hitting 1000 points since he still has 5 years on his contract and played all 82 games last year even though his production has considerably dropped. But he would only need to average 32 points a year to hit 1000 points. Zetterberg has been the best playoff performer in the NHL without considering the last few years. Nobody in the league has scored more goals than he has in playoffs since he entered the league. Take a look this is from 2003 to 2016. As far as Hossa, I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't get in and Datsyuk does either. Hossa has consistently been a top defensive forward in the league, won 3 stanley cups and more than a thousand points and about 500 goals. If Datsyuk gets in, then Hossa definitely HAS to. As far as Selke's are concerned, it isn't as easy for Wingers like Zetterberg or Hossa to win them. All of the recognized defensive forwards in the last decade have been centers. It's harder for a Winger to win a Selke in today's hockey, in fact no Winger has won it since like 2003. It's almost as though it's exclusive to centerman. Wingers are some of the most underrated defensive forwards in this league. As Kipwinger eluded to it earlier, people confuse talent and flashyness with being the best. All three players are more or less equal when it comes to one ice contributions. Datsyuk has the edge on defense but Hossa and Zetterberg have the edge on goal scoring. And Zetterberg is better than both of them in accumulated playoff performance. If Datsyuk were to get in and the other two don't, it would be due to sheer popularity and not because he deserved it more.

So glad the Wings filed for arbitration against Mrazek. Kid wants $5 million and hasn't even earned it imo. Smart move by Kenny. Seriously why would anyone be okay and criticize management for Mrazek wanted to get overpaid? Unbelievable. The kid played like 54 games last year and had a questionable end to his performance. Obviously management needs to be conservative when handing a contract out. You don't throw money at someone long term when they're inconsistent. It's funny because if we had signed him for 5 million for 6 years and he turned out to be a flop, the same people would be bitching about it 2-3 years from now. Somewhere in the ballpark of $4 million sounds fair for both sides.

?? What does that mean? Why would draft year matter when looking at points scored per year. Datsyuk was drafted in 1998 and started playing in 2001 where scoring started decreasing.

Jerome Iginla, Marcus Nasland, Kovulchuk, Alfredsson, Thornton to name a few. They were all top 10 point scorers year in and year out and played in the post 2002 era as well. HoF isn't exclusive to what type of forward position. Centers and Wingers are all treated equally. This is only looking at top 10 point totals a season and not looking at assists or goals individually of course. But if that's the category then Datsyuk only finished top 10 in total points 2 times in his 14 seasons. Whereas Iginla, Kovulchuk, Alfredsson and Thornton finished top 10 more often. Savard, Hossa, St. Louis too. There's probably about 10 or so players who finished top 10 more often than Datsyuk did. Datsyuk finished top 10 two times in his career and defensive players comparable who also finish top 10 two times would be Hossa and Zetterberg. So IMO, if Datsyuk gets into HoF then so should Hossa and Zetterberg. At this point you would be expanding the pool obviosuly because that brings in other players like Daniel Sedin, Henrik Sedin, Brad Richards etc.

I wanted to go back to a point someone made in another thread about how people who use advanced analytics are acting like they know better than the coaches. This is not true at all. There's things in Blashill's coaching which makes sense and actually works and nobody is refuting the point. The perfect example is Brenden Smith who was sheltered and thrived under Blashill. Another example is demoting Ericsson to third line and promoting Dekeyser to first line. I'd say most of the stuff put out on ice is just fine and obviously Blash and the analytics are lining up in that regard. The issue comes in where certain MINORITY of the players are being misused and that's where the criticism starts to fall on Blash. Right now there's a few players being misused and those include Glendening, Zetterberg and Drew Miller. So the next time someone comes about with wacky arguments that "Oh look at the analytics people trying to act like they know better". Stop seeing s*** in black and white, that's not what people are trying to say. They are just pointing out some of the weakest links in the lineup that need to be changed in order to make the team go from being an 8 seed to something better. "Your team is only as strong as your weakest player"

Mrazek will because he's not insecure. But you won't forget lol.

PVD you have to take it into context. You can't compare Tatar to Glendening in the "all situations" chart. You would have to compare Tatar to Nyquist, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and all the other players who get similar time of 5 on 5 time. In that regard, Tatar is obviously the best possession player. Glendening's best comparison is probably someone like Darren Helm who gets PK time as well. In that regard Helm is the superior possession player. As far as the all situations numbers are concerned, take it this way: Glendening is being put out in the defensive zone more often but is struggling. There are players in the league who have similar if not worse defensive zone starts than him who aren't struggling nearly as much and are on worse teams than the Red Wings (I've already posted this chart in the other thread). But to me this isn't about Glendening, it's more about the entire team. If it's a 3-2 game with 1 minute left to go in the favor of Red Wings, this chart makes me think that Glendening should not be on ice to take the faceoff as he struggles in the defensive zone. I'd much rather put another center to take the faceoff even with a slightly lower faceoff win %. Because what really is the difference between 54% and 53% faceoff and first guy being Glendening and the second player being Datsyuk? Finally, there actually is no correlation to Glendening's zone starts and his possession numbers. In 2013 when he entered the league, he had about 50% defensive zone starts compared to last year where he had 70% defensive zone starts but his Corsi was only SLIGHTLY better in 2013 (but he played far less games in 2013 so it probably would have ended up being the same). It was still far far below the team average. So the issue with Glendening is not because of his zone starts, it's because of his inherent lack of possession skills. He's simply not a good possession player, regardless of what situation he's in.

You've got to go back and read the thread from page one then. No one said he shouldn't get in because Crosby is better. Someone claimed that Datsyuk was the best, and that's why he should get into HoF. Datsyuk wasn't #1 but will still get into HoF and so will a lot of people not named Crosby.

Nvm not worth it.

I saw that on twitter. But what I noticed wasn't Tatar. I noticed Glendening. At this point I'd keep Tatar over Nyquist.

That's an excellent point. I often feel fans overrate Datsyuk because of his flashyness. Datsyuk, while being the most talented player of this generation was certainly not the number one player in the league. I think it was Mickey Redmond who sort of eluded to that point once. He stated that although Red Wings fans may not like to hear it, there's no denying that Sidney Crosby is better, however, Datsyuk just makes you fall off your seat. But anyways, ignoring that point, Datsyuk's accomplishments are pretty good for modern day era.

When I said top scorers, I meant points across the board. Any of the Goals, Assists or Point total categories over the course of a decade.They each finished top 10 in one of those categories quite a few times in their career. Couple times finished top 5. If I'm not mistaken, just last year (2015 season) Zetterberg finished top 10 in assists in the league.

We should move Richards v Datsyuk convo for HOF in the other thread.

Lol. The selection committee of the Hall of Fame has Scotty Bowman, Luc Robataille and Igor Larionov on it. Datsyuk is for sure getting in guys.

Agreed, another good reason why Datsyuk will likely get in. He lost a year of his early prime.

Well, you may be right, we'll have to see how Zetteberg, Sedin twins, Getzlaf, Kane, Stamkos and Backstom's contracts play out. As it stands these guys are the closes to PPG in the league. (Obviously not considering Ovie, Malkin and Crosby in the equation). IMO there's got to be some sort of point cut off for forwards. They can't let in every tom dick and harry with 700 points. Lecavlier would be a prime example. He had a good run from 2004-2007 but fell of significantly. Whereas you have the Sedin twins , Datsyuk and Zetterberg who were consistently top 10 scorers in the league for more almost a decade. I admit Sedin's lack of Stanley cup will probably hinder their chance but I'm just using their consistency and production as an example.

Splitting hairs. Datsyuk basically would have hit 1000 points if he didn't leave NHL early. You may have misinterpreted my post. I was saying that Dats will likely be an exception to 1000 point consensus. But I can't say the same for other players. As it stands Vincent Lecavelier has 949 points and scored over a 100 points, over 50 goals in a season, won the Rocket Richard trophy and a Stanley cup. But would you accept him into the HoF? I wouldn't. A good way to weed him out would be the 1000 point mark

It will be interesting to see how the next decade of HOF plays out. The classes are getting weaker imo.

He came in 4th for Selke once. He's probably more comparable to Zetterberg although Z was a better goal scorer than both Richards and Dats were.

No he didnt win selke he won a Lady Byng

There's about 5 players that are active with more than a 1000 points and another 5 that are close to a 1000. If they change the goalie pad sizes, the scoring could increase overall.

Lol I do that too sometimes when my bias kicks in. It's hard to separate ourselves and be objective when it comes to favorite players/teams.

There's definitely some exceptions to the 1000 points consensus. Not very many though. I think Datsyuk will be one of the exceptions.

I don't think 1000 points mark will apply to Datsyuk though. Unlike Kariya, Datsyuk actually was the best at something (defensive forward). That aspect of his game is certainly generational. But like I eluded to in other thread, some people will probably have the ultra conservative thought process and still stick to "1000 points or no Hall" rhetoric.

Is the primary reason Kariya isn't in the Hall because of lack of Stanley Cup?