kickazz

I'm not a Jimmy fan but rejog your memories that Jimmy had all star goalie type stats before he was injured in second part of season. If he's healthy this start of season, Blashill would be dumb not to see if he can replicate those stats again.

Blashill isnt going to 'favor' people because he played with them and screw the older players over. Thats would unprofessional and ridiculous. He will be a fair coach. Jimmy and Mrazek will be competing for it with a slight edge to Jimmy to start the season seeing as though he takes 5 mill to be on ice.

I want to know who number9 really thinks is better as of now.

oh boy Tatar is killin it

Smallest line in the NHL award. Well to be fair he has a point, but I don't think it was due to Babcock. Hudler does have more responsibility there, here we had D and Z still in their prime.

Question- So if Z scores 80 points next season and Toews scores 65 and both replicated average time on ice and takeaways what do we conclude with that? Say in playofffs 2016 they replicate similar numbers. "Number's don't mean anything, Toews still better?" - Just curious so we have the opinions before the season starts. I know Toews has the added factor that he still kills penalties and Z rarely does anymore (unless Blashill decides to put him and Dats back on penalty killing for some reason). But aside from that fact.

Okay I can level with people who said Z prime and Toews now. Still don't buy the Toews prime > Z prime

I've watched him play about 25 or so games this past year he's a great player but not top 3 on ice. I'm usually more impressed when I watch Tavares and Stamkos play. Last season I enjoyed Backstrom a good amount. Some of us like maths but others also like watching and playing hockey. Call us well rounded if you must XD I usually DVR all Wings games if I can't watch live. And Comcast/Xfinity does a decent job of saving prime time games for NHL network. That's how I get to watch Chicago, LA games (where I can watch Kopitar)

Just sounds like an excuse to me. Players will score if they have the ability to. Goals or assists. Both Z and Toews play a lot of minutes on ice. Are we assuming Toews is just floating around saying "hey guys I don't need to score I'll just take my 20 min per game average and let you guys score since you can" Sounds like you're saying Toews doesn't play upto his full potential. Now that isn't very captain like.

Each had 4 points but Toews was a -3. Toews had 21 shots on goal while Z had 25 shots on goal. Toews took 4 penalties while Z took 2. Toews was 50.25 on faceoffs while Z was 50%. Keep in mind that Toews is a 55-60% faceoff guy while Z is a 48-52% faceoff guy. Doesn't seem like a situation where both shut each other down to me. The edge is clearly to Z. Not to mention Toews lost his cool on live tv. Neither does NBC

For those into advance metrics I found this pretty interesting : http://thehockeywriters.com/henrik-the-great-does-zetterberg-belong-in-the-hall-of-fame/ When Zetterberg is on the ice, he starts more of his shifts outside of the offensive zone, plays with higher quality teammates, plays against a higher quality of competition, and the team generates the 2nd highest percentage of shot attempts at the opposing net. That is extremely impressive, especially when you consider the fact that the best players of his generation are on this graph. Basically Z was being compared to Datsyuk, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin and Sedins. Here's the link for the graph: http://i2.wp.com/thehockeywriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Screen-Shot-2014-10-25-at-12.45.24-PM.png This is pre 2015 season ofcourse. Which wasn't very good for Z

Fair enough. Like I said, even if we put points aside they did go head to head in 2013 and Z shut him down really well. So that's another way of comparing. Other ways could be looking at their performances against other top league players. I.E Crosby, Tavares, Getzlaf, Malkin, Bergeon, Girioux etc. But I won't get into that unless needed.

Well I did some digging to see just how the points are distributed amongst both teams. Blackhawks 3 players with 60+ points 1 player with 50-59 points 2 players with 40-49 points 3 players with 30-39 points 2 players with 20-29 points 5 players with 10-19 points Red Wings 2 players with 60+ points 2 players with 50-59 points 2 players with 40-49 points 3 players with 30-39 points 2 players with 20-29 points 8 players with 10-19 points Looks like the Red Wings actually distribute scoring better than the Blackhawks do. So that theory is out the window.

True the Crosby shutdown was a team effort and Z was the biggest part of it. But there were also times when Z played keep away on penalty kill against like 5 players on ice. Crosby or not.

Decent points. Good read. But here is what I'll say. Z hit 69 points in 2012 - lets count that as 70 since its so close so that was 3 years ago. If Z didn't go down with injury last year I strongly believe he would have hit 70 points and for 77 games he played this season 66 points is pretty damn close to 70 again. My point is, if he had played 81 games like Toews did this year he would have MAYBE 69 or 70 points. But he didnt so we don't know. I will say this. If Hank Zetterberg matches Toews in points this upcoming year or does better. I conclude that I am not convinced of Toews being the better player. At least as far as the prime vs prime argument is concerned or to some extent present vs present is concerned. The reason I say this is because the Wings have more depth now and Chicago has lost some depth. This would mean that Z's scoring should be balanced out by other players (and his numbers effectively go down) and Toews numbers should go up because of the lessened depth to spread the scoring out. ^That may not be too convincing but it's just a theory. I just find it silly that a 27 year old who is considered top 3 in the league can't match a 34 year old slow Zetterberg in terms of points. And call me crazy but if this wasn't a Toews vs. Zetterberg debate, a lot of you might also agree with me.

I live right around there and I didn't even hear the implosion >.> Slept right through it.

You're right. Here's my context. Toews age 27 - 66 points in 81 games - well into prime Zetterberg age 34 - 66 points in 77 games - well past prime. (rest of the details in above post) I'm not sure how much more context I can look at..

None of this equates to how Toews is better in prime. People say they're similar players. Okay I'll agree with that. If they're similar then how come Z reached a higher potential than Toews? Okay I guess he had Lidstrom and Hull and Datsyuk and blah blah blah. (That's a weak argument imo seeing as though Toews had Hossa, Keith, Kane, Crawford). But okay I'll go with it for now. Then I ask this question. How come Z is STILL producing at the SAME level as Toews who is well into his prime while Z is well PAST his prime? Hmm... I guess that answer must then be that Zetterberg has a higher potential than Toews. If what we see today from Toews is his best- and if Z is easily matching it. Then I'm disappointed... I'd expect the number 3 player in the world to be able to outscore a 34 year old! All these talk is just numbers anyway. We haven't even talked about a head to head matchup. If that was another way to compare then we know who won that right? There has not been one solid argument as to why Toews > Zetterberg. The numbers prove otherwise, the head to head matchup in 2013 playoffs prove otherwise.

Okay lets say that is true. How about this: Toews CURRENTLY has a better roster than Zetterberg - Yet Z puts up 48 points in 46 games and Toews puts up the EXACT same amount of points in 47 games in 2013 season. Let's keep going.. 2013 playoffs- Z puts up 12 points in 14 games. Toews puts up 14 points in 23 games. Ouch. That's pretty bad. 2014 - lets throw that out because Z only played half of that season. 2015- Z puts up 66 points in 77 games. Toews puts up 66 points in 81 games - Ouch. 2015 Playoffs - Toews 21 points in 23 - very good. Z 3 points in 7 - not so good. Toews is well into his prime btw. Z is well past his prime. Toews has a much better team than Z to work with too. So no I don't believe for a minute that Toews "would have" done better with better players. He already has better players on his roster and he can't put up higher numbers than Z who is on a worse roster.

He's been healthy. He got hurt in 2014 season, got surgery and it basically ended his year. He got hit to the head by Benn this year and his performance went down quite a bit. Other than those two situations he's been just fine. 2013 season he did really well. 2012 was so so but he dominated at the World Championship after playoffs ended. 2011 was an 80 point season so that was good as well. PS - i know you were being sarcastic I just wanted to clear it up for anyone who thinks he's been on some sort of lingering injury.

I think the consensus is the Mrazek will start in the NHL next year. The monster will not be resigning with us. That leaves Howard and Mrazek for NHL.

You can't just say "Hank never had the skill Toews has" without giving some good details to this. Here I'll say it. Zetterberg (in prime) was better than Toews (in prime) in all aspects of hockey except faceoffs and shootouts. Everything else. Z was better. If someone can prove otherwise I'm all ears.... This is the point of this thread. Lot of people want to say Toews was better. Or Z was better. But not much is said when asked about HOW Toews is better. "Well TSN said it so it must be true"

Bernier - : "How many times do I need to bail out our s**** defense? Exactly" - Walks away. Reimer's confidence is under the gutter unfortunately. Toronto ruined him.

Even at this age.

How were they similar in prime when their offensive numbers were miles apart. Toews has yet to get a second season with 70+ points. Getting 70+ points in a season for Z is considered normal.