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I'm interested to know why people think Toews in his prime is better than Z in his prime. Also why he's better than Z currently. I'm all ears honestly.

But Datsyuk and Zetterberg go fishing together every summer... Is that not boy love?

If Tatar and Nyquist replicate their numbers this upcoming season it's safe to say their perfomances weren't flukes and they will be top league players in a year or two. Additionally if it does happen, I would put both above Hudler in terms of potential. Hudler had a great season last year but he's late into his prime now and I'm not sure if there's anymore upside. Tatar and Nyquist are still young and can only get better. I know it's Tatar vs. Hudler but I had to throw Gus in there for added perspective edit - flukes not FLUES.. lol.

As much as I dislike Crosby, he looks damn good in the pic

O snap close poll. I've yet to vote.

What about head to head matchup? One vs the other? Who would you put money on? Imagine its game 7 of cup finals and both are going up against the other.

Frank.. Toews has only played 15 less playoff games than Z. Their comparison for PPG works perfectly fine because the sample used is large for both. Toews = 117 games. Zetterberg = 132 games. Zetterberg has better playoff numbers than Toews overall. Toews is not a better playoff performer overall. I don't think he is taking it personal, I think he is appauled that you actually think that Toews is a better playoff performer knowing that the Blackhawks have a better team and have played much more games in the past 3 years and you're sort of holding it against Z since you mentioned how he only had 2 and 3 points in the playoffs while Toews had higher numbers. Well obviously because he only played like 2 games last year and only 7 this year while Toews played 19 games last year and 23 this year.... I know you're not into advance stats but this is just pure logic and simple math that we learn in elementary school. You can't honestly think you can make an argument out of Z being inferior when he only played 2 and 7 games. Toews over Zetterberg on the Red Wings roster? The answer is Zetterberg. Z can put up just as many points as Toews in the regular season on a worse team. If Z were on the Blackhawks he would easily break 80 points during the season. Easily. Frank I think you're just falling into the media trap. They glorify Toews. He is basically the face of Canadian hockey next to Crosby. Don't like them persuade you! Facts and numbers don't lie. And no I don't mean advance stats I mean simple addition and subtraction.

And you know it's not luck when he does it multiple times. I often get frustrated because he no longer takes that shot. It's the same when Datsyuk doesn't go on his forehand on the shootouts anymore. Frustrating. Frank - 2013 Playoffs; Zetterberg had 12 points in 14 games. Want to know how much Toews had? 14 points in 23 games. Z would have demolished Toews numbers that year in terms of points if the Wings made it past round 2. 2014 playoffs Z only played 2 games. 2015 playoffs Toews > Zetterberg but Z played much less games. So really the best example to look at is 2013 because Z played wayy less games and had almost the same point totals as Toews..

Crosby for sure has best backhand. I actually think Zetterberg has a better backhand than Datsyuk. Only very slightly tho. Datsyuk's shot is definitely very quick (as it should be for a high finesse player like him), but Z is very strong on his backhand, and the accuracy is deadly. It was like his go-to shot in his prime .. the guy could score with it from the worst angles possible. I remember this one made my jaw drop pretty hard The accuracy is ridic

Fact - Henrik Zetterberg is a better leader and has just as much if not more will than Toews. Both on and especially off the ice. Look up Zetterberg foundation - schools and clean water overseas in ethiopia and Nepal? I mean I know a lot of NHL players do charity work but international contributions at this level is a pretty intense effort. And he's been doing it for years. Toews complains and whines on ice occasionally. Z NEVER complains. Both are leaders by example. Toews is more vocal but it's easier to be when your first language is the one the league communicates in. The big picture im trying to pull out is; I wouldn't look at leadership as the defining factor on these top players - just pure skill. Toews doesn't make the cut imo for top 3 or even top 5 if we look at skill. I'd put him at 7ish

Yeah, the Toews/Kane contract was ridic but then again it wasn't like Chicago was going to let them walk. My personal top 5 would be: Crosby Stamkos Ovetchkin Tavares Datsyuk (if healthy) In no particular order. And yes Datsyuk. He is still a PPG player and can still do it all when needed and he's still incredible on faceoffs/takeaways. I think Zetterberg is better than Claude Girioux and Toews if healthy. I think this past season was an outlier for him. I might add Malkin into top five and swap out Datsyuk but it was be a toss up between the two seeing as tho neither had the best seasons this past year.

I'm probably in the minority here but I think Stamkos has already hit his peak pre-injury. My opinion is that he comes close to replicating his numbers (90 point range) but I'm not sure if he will surpass his previous season highs. If he has another 70 point season his contract will be lesser.

If kopitars market value ends up being around 8 or 9 and he ends up exploring market, wings should try to be all over that. I hope Kings miss playoffs again so it helps his decision to leave. Unlikely tho

I guess 90/8 could happen seeing as though Toews/Kane got 84/8. dam it's ridiculous money tho. the toews/kane standrad for contract really screws things up for other orgs

I think Z has his sniper moments and I'd consider him a sniper/playmaker in his prime. 7 years later (today) he def isn't a sniper anymore. Too slow and his bad angle shots to trick goalies don't work like they used to. Do we consider this a snipe? lol. He probably scored on those types of angles atleast 20-30 times in his career. His accuracy is very good. Just can't do anything with it like he used to. Pav still can it seems like even at this age.

Toews is def not a top 3 player. I can see Stamkos being fair on his contract. Seems liek a solid leader and team first guy to me. But he will def get paid high. edit - meant to say top 3 not top 5

Yeah we see eye to eye on the first point you made. So I guess this Z and Toews comparison is brought up. My opinion is that if we were comparing the two at their primes then Z in prime >>>>> Toews in prime. Like, it's not even close. Both offensively and defensively. Powerplay, shooting ability, penalty kill, takeaways. Except probably faceoffs. Z in 2013 > Toews in 2013 Z in 2015 < Toews in 2015 Future? Who knows; I think last season for Z could be an outlier just like his 2012 season and he could perform his usual PPG this upcoming season. We will have to see. I still think if the two were matched up against each other; a 34 year old Z would still dominate a 27 year old Toews. But as far as overall season + playoffs, Toews just has fresh legs to keep him going. Z been on a downward trend for a few years now. I was sitting behind the bench in one of the last games of the season (i dont remember which one to be honest) and Z did NOT look like he was in good shape even while on the bench. Heavy breathing, extremely short shifts, just slow as hell.

Yeah. Z's a decent sniper, he's got a hell of a slapshot and backhand. But I'm not surprised he wasn't mentioned. He's been on a downward trend for the last 2 years or so and his goal scoring is bad. The Pav stuff Quick mentioned gave me goosebumps <3. So true. I was watching some Ovie highlights and it's so easy to forget how frickin good of a sniper he is. Slap, wrist or snap his shot is sooooo powerful it's ridiculous. Def top 5 all time imo.

I guess he has an upside but a single PPG season is kind of a gamble. But this is the current type of market the NHL is in so. No surprises.

I'm not sure which one you're talking about but these were my two fav snipes that series: If you look at the 1st goal, you see him look at Z and tap his stick twice on the ice for a pass and Z knows exactly what Pav wants to do. Score a goal. Insane backhand.

I agree about the type of player he is. I just take issue with giving him more credit about certain parts of the game than he deserves. He's not a "sniper" as this article's subject is imo. Nothing that Quick mentioned about him really convinced me how Toews is an elite sniper. All he said was that he is "constantly moving, constantly working".. just sounds like unrelated praise to me. Which is fine but not truly related. I guess it was good to use Toews in the article to segway into the Toews/Kane chemistry. The Kane stuff he mentioned was right on point; he does go between the stick and legs A LOT and get's goals quite a bit with it.

Or not. Toews is one of the best leaders in the league and one of the best complete forwards. However; his offensive ability is no where near the level of guys like Ovie, Stamkos, Crosby, Datsyukian vision, Kane stickhandling, Perry, Getzlav, Thornton's vision (before he started sucking this past year), Malkin, and many others. Notice how in the article he mentions "Kane and Toews". Yet it mostly talks about Kane specialties which are very unique. Toews is mentioned as "constantly moving, constantly working" etc. Those are some very generic words that could be applied to lots of players in the league. None of the stuff mentioned about him really stands out to me as related to "Elite Snipers 101" as the article is titled. Toews is a hot commodity and is often times mentioned for the sake of being mentioned. He's emerging into the face of this league. This happens in tons of sports, it's nothing unusual. I actually respect Toews. I just don't like it when players are overrated for things they shouldn't be. It was the same thing when Yzerman told the media that "Toews is a better player than I ever was". I mean really? Lol Everyone knows thats bs. Toews himself basically said it (in a nice way).

What

Easily. But if we switch that to Z-PaV-Holmstrom then I'd say not at all.Z and Pav thrived on making a fool of grinders as long as Holmstrom created some space. Plus their combined finisse and hockey IQ would be too much for grind line to handle. I think the euro twins hockey IQ in their prime was one of the best in the league's history and i honestly mean that. Especially given the speed at which the game has heen played the post 2004 lockout era

Good read, although i felt like the Toews part was a bunch of bs and its the usual way of overrating him.