kickazz

Wait wait wait, you think the 02 goalies were any better? Aside from Roy? Irbe? Really? Wow what a challenge Carolina was for us. Cloutier for Vancouver was a joke. Marc Andre Fleury had better stats than Patrick Roy did in 02 playoffs. Again, another prime example of people assuming that big names must have been good. In fact the 02 playoffs was one of Patrick Roy's worst performances with Colorado. Roy had a great season but when playoffs came out he was showing signs of age and his playoff numbers were worse than the years before. There's a reason why Roy played only one more season and quit.

My point with that post specifically is that Robataille and Hull were past their primes in 2002 compared to their prime. They were visibly slower on ice. Robataille produced worse than Filpulla, Franzen, Hudler and Samuelsson in the playoffs.. A 1990s Hull and Robataille would stomp the 08 Wings. Hands down. But the 02 guys not so much. And we're talking about a specific point in time in which I think the 08 team was superior.

Say whatever you want but all of of the guys you mentioned played against crappy goalies in the playoffs and never scored that way in their series.

Yeah but hockey is real.

And Robataille would look like a camel on ice in the 08 playoff hockey. Same for Hull. So yeah.

Regardless of what type of surgery it is, statistically he has a risk of further complications and another surgery. That's inherent of spinal/back surgeries in general. If he was like Zetterberg who was mid contract it would be one thing because we have no choice and hope for the best (so far so good). But for a team like us that's rebuilding. To sign a guy who is a free agent AFTER he had a spinal surgery? That's not really the smartest of decisions. We actually have a choice here. Walk away. We don't need him. If we resign him, do it for cheap. I mean like 2-3 million at most and only for a year. See how he does. God ffs stay away otherwise.

I'm talking about playoffs and them going head to head for the Cup run. I think the 08 team in a game 7 series against 02 team would win. If we look at season as a whole that changes things. For one, Yzerman missed like 30 games.... And Osgood performed better in the playoffs than he did in that actual season.

Hmmm quarterbacks that get hit once in a while by guys running 10 mph from the line or hockey player getting hit flying 30+ mph. I wonder. But you make a good point. Manning had one surgery and when he didn't quit football (he should have) he was forced to undergo multiple surgeries after that. So yeah lets sign a guy that will probably need more surgeries and possibly end up missing most of the season (82 as opposed to the 16 in football).

You may want to check again lol. Samuelsson, Franzen, and Filpulla, Hudler ALL had better numbers than Robataille in the playoffs. Franzen had 13 goals, 18 points in only 16 games played while Hull had 10 goals 18 points in 23 games played. Hull being one of the best goal scorers in the game of hockey. Yet another example of why the big names makes people think they must have been amazing. Robataille was not that good in those 02 playoffs. Past his prime. That's the reality of it. Not sure how long till fans realize this. Don't get me wrong, I love that 02 team and I think the offensive spread was probably a little better. I just think the way the forwards played in 08, they would have outdone the 02 guys. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filpulla, and others played a 200 foot game that I don't think the 02 team would have been able to counter. If anything it would probably come down to Hasek's performance and Bowman's coaching compared to Babcocks. Problem for Hasek would be that 08 Osgood himself was a beast and his GAA was ridiculously better than Hasek's. So even that is up for debate.

Which means, 08 team would have home ice.

No he shouldn’t be resigned. He had cervical spine surgery. How is this even a topic of debate. This guy is literally a walking liability. If Holland does resign him, better be for a year to trade at deadline (if Green even makes it to deadline healthy).

Your e-mail can be titled “should it be retired”. It would be a catchy title and they would immediately open it.

Player A finishes contract and goes to play for another team that went to the Cup finals that year. Player B does not finish contract and after a lot of back and forth leaves the team to play for another one. Wonder what's worse for the GM/Owner and then what's worse for the fan.

That 2002 team faced Irbe lol. He had a good playoff season that year but he was not a good goalie in general. I'm amazed at how people don't realize the difference in hockey between 2002 and 2008. 2008 hockey players did not have much space on ice and, they were faster too. Our 08 would LITERALLY skate circles around those guys in 02 with all that space and lack of speed. Just watch how defenseman did a much better job of collapsing in to take lanes and passes away in 08. Part of the reason is because a lot more players played 200 foot game in 2008 compared to the early 2000s.

Most of those Hall of Famers were much past their prime. Most of the best players of the 08 team was young. They would have beaten the 02 guys at their age in 2002. The Nashville and Dallas struggles you mentioned are nothing compared to the 02 struggle Avs gave the Wings. The Wings in 2008 were just better than most teams in every way. They literally had puck possession most of the game in every game. 08 team is underrated around here because we get spoiled by names like Hull, Robataille, Yzerman. Guys who were pretty far past their prime in 02. Yep. Sure can.

Apparently to someones surprise that's not worse than a guy who finished his contract and went to go play for another team.

What legally protected rights? Fedorov was a free agent. Datsyuk wasn't. Holland could have taken action in Datsyuk's case. Whether or not that would have worked is something none of us really know. Objectively within the bounds of contracts; it's pretty simple that one guy fullfilled his and the other didn't. You don't need to stretch it out to make your argument fit lol. I mean I guess you can. But Fedorov never walked out on any contract he was obligated to with the Wings. Either way on a note related to the main question asked in this thread. Clearly Illitch/Holland don't see it the way you do. If they did, then #91 would have long been on the rafters. Maybe you can e-mail your post to the Illitches and try to get that #91 retired.

No.

Having said all this, I still think Datsyuk has a good chance of getting his number retired Objectively, Datsyuk’s situation is worse. But if you want touchy feely subjectivism then yeah, Fedorov hurt the butts more.

And he did it to stop playing hockey, not to hamper us with a cap hit and go play somewhere else. Dats would have f***ed us with cap hit in 2014 technically if Holland didn’t tell him he would block him from playing in KHL. Like it or not, the Datsyuk drama was ongoing from 2014 onwards and I’m sure it left a bad taste in Holland and Illitches mouth having to deal with it on and off for 3 years. These same people happen to be the ones who decide if the number gets retired.

He can walk away sure, but I’m referring to the fact that Holland said he was going to stop him from playing in the KHL had he left in 2014

Fans wouldn't be as upset with him but if we were to objectively assess if his number would be retired, then him not fullfilling his contract would STILL be a topic of discussion. I mean look at Fedorov. I think most fans are over it. Lots of fans were excited to see him at the alumni game against Toronto and at the Hall of Fame induction visit but whenever we bring up number retirement, we STILL bring up his past issues with the team. You can't escape contract issues and talks. Not in sports or in general. It's always a red flag for anyone/anything. Ever watch the show Silicon Valley? You try to bail out on a contract in the tech industry, you're f***ed. I think what a lot of people still don't understand is that the Detroit Red Wings chose not to take Datsyuk to court. They could have made this a legal issue. But the franchise did him a favor and let him walk. If I remember correctly Datsyuk wanted to walk away from the contract in 2014 and Holland told him he would take him to court and prevent him to being able to play in the KHL if he did that. He then convinced Datsyuk to stay for 2 of the 3 years and if he honored that then he would let Datsyuk walk away with no legal battle. Trust me the Datsyuk issue on paper is far worse than what Fedorov ever did. Datsyuk is just more well liked and a timid dude so fans kinda forgave him. Fedorov always came off as a ****** bag so even something like signing a contract with Anaheim (which he was allowed to do) hurt everyones butt.

He had a year left. Like you said he spent 14 years. All he had to do was spend one more year. He didn’t. You can be in the lead in a race but if you don’t cross that finish line it’s over. Datsyuk did that. Pretty sure he left cause we sucked. Had we been a contender he would have had no issue finishing the contract.

BFS workout time.

Yeah I’m not quite sure why Gretzky’s number is retired league wide. I wouldn’t be surprised if his records do actually get broken eventually within the next 50 years or so. Players are just getting better, faster, stronger. Just 10 years ago the NHL was slow. It’s lightning fast now. In 50 years who knows how these players will be.