LAWings

Actually, the business men who owned and operated Gladiator schools took great care of their products. Gladiators were not slaves forced to fight, in the sense that only the best of the best could be in a Gladiator school, if you failed the training, you were sent back to wherever you came from. All kinds of men became gladiators, from everyday thrill seekers, slaves wanting a better life to men coming from the elite looking for glory and fame. In fact most Gladiator fights never went to the death as you see in Hollywood. The gladiator houses would put on shows with other houses but they never resulted in death or injury. It was against the code so to speak. They would fight in small arenas kind of like a boxing/WWE match but against another 'dojo' if I can use all modern parlance. If a Gladiator was hurt or died, the business owner would lose money because they spent a lot to train them, feed and house them. The profit return was on continued fights. The better they were the bigger the arena and more fights. But back to the NHL, I think it's wrong for the players to sue for concussions, they knew the risks, just like the Gladiators. It would be like the gladiators suing the houses that gave them an opportunity that they didn't protect them from the risks. YOU KNOW THE RISKS! Don't want to be violently hit 300 times a year? Don't play a rough contact sport... Seems like everyone is a victim these days.

in my fantasy league, I noticed an interesting parallel with the Wings lineup. If anyone has ever played one season of any fantasy sports, you'll understand the time involved drafting and keeping your team. The comparison is that Detroit has a glut of players, we over signed and then "had to make the hard choices" about "putting the best team on the ice". Much like a fantasy owner does. However, I have agonized about dropping someone when I had a player coming off IR. I felt all my players are so good, that by dropping anyone, another team will autmatically pick them up and make them a better team because of it. When I finally drop someone, they never get picked up, they just sit there. Why, did I over value and inflate the importance and strengths this player has to offer my roster? I started seeting the connection with the Red Wings approach, Holland and Babs think so highly of some of these guys, but when they are put on waivers they clear. Apparently 29 other GMs do not think some of our players are special and here in lies the problem if our GM and coach cannot value a player properly or see the contribution they make. No one even offered Cleary a contract, Eaves and Tootoo cleared waivers. Who else is valueless? I think guys like Miller, Lashoff, and possibly even Erricson and Abdelkader, and the NTC untouchables of Bert and Sammy, even if those guys waived their NTC nobody would touch them. So is the Wings management dellusional about moves and signings they make?

1. Coach / Direction - listen to any Babs interview, yes he knows the game, but he's lost the room, it's just blah, blah, blah at this point 2. Dump Cleary, Bertuzzi, Sammy, Eaves, Miller 3. Make a trade for a puck moving, shooting from the blue line, defenseman (preferably two) 4. Make a trade for a right handed shot, so sick of hearing them say we need one. Rafalski has been gone for 3 years, make this happen! 5. Is Stephen Weiss to Detroit what Scott Gomez was to Montreal? 6. Is Ottowa the new San Jose for Detroit? Seems former Wings coaches dominate us with their new teams... maybe those guys need to be promoted and Babs demoted 7. Possibly make some room at the front office for a new GM, I think Holland has not been making good moves the last few years. They just keep putting bandaids on problems rather then long term solutions

This year for me is showing Babcock's system is no longer working. Even Apple fired Steve Jobs in his first stint the company, and he founded it!....so let's cut through the crap about people being untouchable. We've had dismal playoff performance last few years, barely making the playoffs, scoring is dropping, terrible on the PP. Now 7 straight losses...folks Babcock's time has come. It's no long working whatever he has in mind. North American hockey with the Swedish Olympic team? Not working. When you look at stats, Mike Lewis had a higher win percentage, he was let go. Babs inherited the machine from Scotty and Jimmy D., but if you look at the performance in measurable stats, we do worse every year. We blamed our 2nd/3rd line players as not giving the support we need, turns out Hudler, Kopecky, Filpula are flourishing in a different system, producing way more points then here. We replaced them with other players, Weiss is suffocating here. Why? Case in point Samuellson. In his first stint with Detroit he's averaging 40 pts a game, he goes to Vancouver, 50...comes back to Detroit, now nothing. We have so much scoring firepower, how is it that scoring goals is a problem? It's the system, plain and simple, it doesn't work anymore. I don't even know what system we have when Cleary is on the top line, and we have line changes every night that make no sense. I don't care how smart of a coach he is, we are not getting results. Even Apple fired Steve Jobs once....so let's cut through the crap about people being untouchable.

Would you like to join us?

Great, so not only is the Mule stubborn...but now he's nervous being in front of people?

Is this anywhere near easter island?

Is the Quebecois Montreal Police going to lend their investigative services for this on ice assault?

Almqvist the second coming of Brian Rafalski?

I think so, went back and watched the fight, he landed really hard on his left shoulder with Acton landing on top of him. After he got up he reached for his shoulder with his right hand. That sucks, I never wish injury on anyone unless their names contain Claude Lemieux or Matt Cooke.

The Flyers are a joke of an organization. When they got rid of Carter and Richards to the far corners of hockey hell (LA and Columbus) it showed what a classless organization they were (and look who had the last laugh 9 months later). Holmgren, Clarke, Berube, Snyder are azz clowns, plain and simple. Their roster has more changes in a season then costumes worn by Lady Gaga on tour...good luck winning there butt tools... I liked Ray Emery but what he did was gutless (cue Don Cherry), and I would be surprised if Grapes doesn't call it that. Emery is a boxer, Holtby is a girl...you don't beat women... I love fighting, big time, but the Flyers are a joke, and I never wish anyone being hurt in a game (because that's not cool), but the Flyers deserved to have Downie and Vinnie hurt for this. If Emery breaks his hip (again) it's only Karma from here on out.

He scored 2 goals in the Avs game, right after Kronwall got Kronwalled. Mule was on the ice for the hit, did anyone see the look on his face as he was standing over Kronner while he did the thirsty fish? Mule was angry, this event sparked him, he played awesome. Perhaps if Kronwall can get knocked out every game we might see some more passion out of the donkey?

In several forums and threads in the Wings universe, I continue to read the 'Wings trust vets' mantra, it repeats blindly and continuously like a broken record. But are we really comparing the vets of today's Wings with the vets of past? When looking at today's vets of Bert, Sammy, Cleary, Weiss... are they the same caliber of Hossa, Robitaille and Hull, Larionov, Holmstrom? Just because someone has a plethora of experience doesn't mean they are best suited for the job. Our vets of Bert, Sammy, Cleary, Weiss are spare parts picked up from the junk yard. I have firmly believed from day one that Bertuzzi is an albatross to the organization, and the hockey gods will never let us win the Cup for his neck breaking shenanigans, for the same reason the hockey gods have not forgiven Montreal for the Rocket dropping the Cup on the ice during their last celebration (skip to :50 seconds). The hockey gods do not forget.Is comparing the veteran experience of our Grind Line, which had years of chemistry and Stanley Cups together, the same as comparing a line of Bert, Sammy, Weiss, Cleary, and saying these vets get it done? Sure a couple of them were on the Cup winning team... 5 years ago when they still had some step to them, but they were 3rd line players to start with. They are simply not the vets we are looking for, and the love affair Holland has with Bert and Cleary is mind boggling. When I look at the previous rosters, our defense corps consisted of 4 defenseman that could all one time the puck (Lids, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall), now we only have one. We have only one scoring defensman that at one time was our 2nd line enforcer, and we have zero ability to one time a shot from the blue line. But that's a topic for another thread. No matter how much Holland and Babs want to believe, or how hard the close their eyes and wish it so, or how much cheese they throw our way...the rag tag bunch of retreads Holland continues to assemble aren't the vets we're looking for. So when I hear that line of 'Red Wings rely on Vets', ...this is what comes to mind. and not this:

Could it be the Babcock system is just no longer working? We've got Z, Pav, Franzen, Alfie, Weiss and we can't score? How does this make sense? I see way too much dump and chase...but we're supposedly a puck posession team. We also have serious problems with the QB on point, or rather lack of...only Kronwall can one time a slap shot or assist on goals. Kronwall has 7 points, the other 7 defenseman have 9 points...we had to get a 40 year old right hand slap shot for our PP because none of our defenseman can do it.

I'd like to clarfiy a couple things, as the several comments suggested I can't compare past to present vets...which was actually my point. The Wings can't continue to say we value veteran leadership because it means something totally different then the veteran leadership we use to have. When we had 4 or 5 500 goal scorers on one team, several Cups, many individual trophies (accumulated while on other teams) how can we look at our vets and think these guys will take us to the promised land? They don't have the same credentials, Bertuzzi is a has been, one 20 goal season in 10 years... At least Franzen puts up double the points... oh and Franzen can be traded anytime, he does not have a NTC, at $3.9 million a year... he's a steal by any NHL standard (yeah, he's frustrating to watch, but averages 28 goals a season...so Kenny can get plenty for him) Salary Cap? We are the highest spending team this year. We are spending the same amount as the 2002 Cup team, ok you can factor inflation and other costs, and say it's not the same, but we're spending $64 million, more then anyone else, and why are we not destroying everyone? Because we've put too much into aging vets that as individuals have not accomplished anything like the vets of yesteryear... and that's why we can't compare them, and why we need a different frame of mind from Holland and Co. when they look at this so called 'Veteran Leadership' of Bert, Sammy, Cleary, Weiss... I just don't understand this unadultered love affair with these guys. At the end of the day tho, I'm still behind this team, no matter what (even with Todd 'the Albatross' Bertuzzi) been there since they sucked so bad you almost didn't want to tell anyone.

Hey all, first post here long time lurker. I noticed in the exhibition games the names on the back of the jersies go straight across, but I always remember that they arc. Are these exhibition jersies or did they just make a change?

doh! lol, I don't get to see many exhibition games on TV so this threw me off.

Although it will be interesting to see what's going on in the Wings locker room, I have reservations about this reality TV. It tends to bring out the diva in the weak ones, messes with ones head, the constant cameras and attention...look what it did to Bryzgalov in Philly? Or Avery in NY. I think it was the final nail in the coffin for him. Looking at how some people get to being in front of cameras, I cringe at the thought of some of the Detroit 'mystique' being laid bare for all to see. I know Babs isn't thrilled with it because it can be a huge distraction, especially for the young guys. Listen to Howie and Smith's comments, these guys can't wait to get in front of the camera. No, I say concentrate on the game, do away with this MTV reality type manufactured drama.