chaps80

So much for "draft lottery luck". Didn't we drop a spot from the final standings? That being said, it could have been worse, still get a good player. I agree with the comment above of taking best available regardless of position. We need D, but if a forward with more upside is still on the board, snag him. Hawks getting the 8th is a joke. They're contenders with a healthy Crawford. Oh well.

He still wasn't much better at the end of the season, that was a good 5 months since he went down. Bowman did say he expects him to be back, but who knows. Holland expected Franzen back at one point too. We'll see how it plays out, but if I was Bowman i'd have a backup plan, because Crawford is all he has. If his symptoms return at any time, the Hawks are screwed.

Dissapointing he didn't work out. Another goalie gone. Kenny has to get an NHL quality backup for Howard this summer. Coreau can stay in the AHL where he can actually handle the level of play, and should be done as far as a spot in Detroit goes. Like to see some additions to the depth chart in goal somehow too, whether through later draft rounds or free agency. It's very thin.

Haha pretty much. I hate the fact Chicago finished in the bottom 7 or 8. Liked seeing them miss the playoffs, but finishing just outside would have been much better. A team with their roster shouldn't be in the draft lottery mix with only a bit lower odds than Detroit. Losing Crawford really shouldn't have killed them when they had plenty of time to find a goalie that didn't suck, but I guess it's an excuse to have a bad season and get a solid first rounder. Or an elite one, depending. And if Hossa and Crawford don't return, which they most likely won't, they have a good shopping budget to pick up a capable goalie and other stuff.

Because Franzen wants his money. I wouldn't retire with all that money owed to me either. He would be playing if he could. Last time he tried he clearly should not have been on the ice. That's that. There's LTIRetirement contracts all over the league. Pronger is still on the books somewhere i believe. Hossa's skin condition deal was indeed suspicious though when they needed to cut cap. He had something i'm sure, but i find it hard to believe doctors and equipment manufacturers couldn't figure out SOME way for him to keep playing and minimize the issue. Hossa isn't a guy you just say "OK guess your out for the season" to without trying everything possible. But Crawford's injury is legitimate. Losing him killed their season. They came in as contenders, finished in the bottom ten.

Awards include Stanley Cups. Osgood: 2.49 GAA, 9.06 sv%, 401 wins, 50 shutouts. Legace: 2.42 GAA, 9.11 sv%, 123 wins, 24 shutouts. Regular season GAA and sv% May as well be the same. Minuscule difference. Legace played around half the total NHL seasons Osgood did as well. I won’t even get started on comparing their playoff stats. Its not easy shoe in status, he will be waiting for the Hall. But as far as Detroit goes, he deserves the jersey retirement. Look at all time stats. Which two names pop up most? Sawchuk and Osgood. On an Original 6 team. Come on man. Lol

Heard about this earlier tonight. Sad tragedy. It really puts forth a great argument for the use of seatbelts in buses. There are reasons why the MTO believes they aren’t needed or even somewhat dangerous to have in them, but I don’t buy it. Seems ridiculous in this day and age of strict transportation laws. If a bus gets hit hard enough by a semi that it flips, who knows where those people will end up or what will happen to them, like last nights injuries and deaths. At least strapped in their seats, there’s a greater chance of staying conscious and uninjured or at the very least, surviving.

Only 8. 4 played before the NHL or the award existed, 3 played in the NHL after it existed (Benedict, Rayner, Cheevers), and 1 didn’t play in North America at all (Tretiak). So ya, the Vezina is usually on the resume of an inducted goalie. But, goalies that have numerous other awards, plus consistent career numbers and longetivity in the game are few enough that exceptions should be made. Exceptions are made at other positions. Guys like Federko and Goulet for example. They put up a lot of points, Goulet is in the 500+ goal club, and Federko owns a lot of STL records, but neither hold any league records, any individual awards, or Cups. They got in based purely on stats.

Yep.

Exactly. It wasn't a scheme to trim cap. Just like the Hawks weren't keeping Crawford out on purpose when they had a playoff team at the time he went down. Stuff happens.

No, there sure aren't many. Only Gerry Cheevers and Chuck Rayner among HHOFs who played in the NHL. I don't think that one award should be the be all end all of requirements though, there are plenty of other things to consider. To base things strictly on NHL Awards and Cups though, this should be the current order of eligible goalies, strictly imo: Brodeur: Calder Trophy: 1994 Jennings Trophy: 1997, 1998, 2003, 2004, 2010Vezina Trophy: 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008 Stanley Cup: 1995, 2000, 2003 Barrasso: Calder Trophy: 1984 Vezina Trophy: 1984 Jennings Trophy:1985 Stanley Cup: 1991, 1992 Thomas: Jennings Trophy: 2009 Vezina Trophy: 2009, 2011 Smythe Trophy: 2011 Stanley Cup: 2011 Vernon: Jennings Trophy: 1996 Smythe Trophy: 1997 Stanley Cup: 1989, 1997 Osgood: Jennings Trophy: 1996, 2008 Stanley Cup: 1997, 1998, 2008 Joseph: Clancy Trophy: 2000 Brodeur is obviously first ballot shoe in. Thomas and Barrasso could be flip flopped. Thomas didn't play in the NHL very long (only real arguement against him), but he's the only goalie since Parent to win the Vezina, Smythe, and Cup all in one season. Barrasso has been kept out purely due to his attitude apparently. Vernon ahead of Osgood because of the Smythe, and Vernon was the starter for the same 1997 Cup. Both will probably be waiting awhile. Joseph may not ever get in at all, despite his numbers and talent. Which is a shame as he was top 5 of his era, and the only one not currently in the hall or a pending shoe in.

Has to start one game I believe... I haven’t been paying much attention to the Wings games lately, but was he really called up? Haha I didn’t think losing that 7th would even come close to happening. Bad times in Detroit for sure. Why not callup Machovsky and save the 7th if he needs to play? Leave McCollum in GR.

I would have taken Hossa over Franzen as well, especially at that point in time. Would have gotten more out of Hossa. Not just in points, but in longetivity (I know, hindsight). Hossa was a scoring machine. Until Vanek came around, I hadn’t seen a player come to Detroit with close to as much natural scoring talent. Hossa and Vanek handle shootouts by taking a couple strides and ripping a quick shot top corner. Too quick and accurate for a goalie to have a chance.

That because Fuhr won a Vezina and Osgood didn’t, it somehow makes him more hall worthy. It’s one award, won in a single season. Some long forgotten goalies have won one. Fuhr finished his career with 403 wins and a 3.38 GAA. Had 92 playoff wins with a 2.92 GAA. Osgood numbers are much better, and the win totals are very close. Other than the Vezina and a couple more All Star selections, there isn’t much that separates them. Fuhr had more “down” seasons than Osgood did, especially in his Toronto and Buffalo days. I think Fuhr is regarded so highly because of his connection to the Oilers dynasty and Gretzky, Messier, etc. As I said above, Andy Moog and Bill Ranford won Cups with them too. Fuhr and Osgood are two very similar goalies career wise. Both won multiple Cups on powerhouse teams, Fuhr has more wins, Osgood has better numbers. But Fuhr has his number retired, is in the HHOF and considered one of the greatest 100 NHLers, while Osgood can’t even get his number retired. Rogie Vachon is in the Hall though, so I guess there’s hope for anyone.

No, he wasn't a top goalie in the league, but his stats are still pretty consistent. The worst season he had that he played at least 30 games in was ironically the one where he had his best playoff performance of his career, 2008-2009. He didn't have a losing record once in his career until 2009-2010, and by then he was pretty well done. He did go from starter in STL to backup for two seasons when he returned to Detroit though, behind Legace, then Hasek. Then split time with Hasek the year after. So I guess he had some ups and downs. But I was originally talking about Detroit retiring his number for what he did there, it's absolutely deserved. The HHOF has it's own standards. He should get in, but he may not.

Minor detail. Jim Carey won one too.

Osgood's 3 Cups, 2 as starter, is no joke either though. Fuhr was only in goal for 3 of the Oilers Cups when they were won. Moog finished the '84 Finals when he was hurt in Game 3, and Ranford played the entire playoffs in '90 when he was injured again. So the two are technically very close in that department. Yeah, the cocaine explosion. Many people didn't see it as a badly addictive, destructive drug back then. Just a way to stay awake and party. haha

I get trying to trade Cujo if that's what he really wanted to do, but at the time it wasn't going to happen with the injury. When he was sent down to GR he wasn't claimed either. But now that i think about it, it was a "conditioning stint" type thing like what has been done with Howard, i believe. Hasek was done for the season soon after anyways, so it's a good thing Cujo wasn't moved. Legace would have been the starter, and things would have fallen apart sooner. Hasek probably wouldn't have changed the Flames series. Cujo was more than good enough to win, he just didn't get the goals and D support, especially on that series ender with ******* Hatcher. Pylon. But I can absolutely see fans being pissed after the exit if Hasek was traded and stayed healthy, cause that's just how she goes. I dunno what Legace was making that year, but probably around $1.5 million give or take. So that was $17.5 million tied up in just goaltending. Ahh, the pre cap era.

Long as it's not the Pens I don't really care. Would be alright seeing SJ win it. I'm over my burning hatred for them now that it's been years that the Wings have been out of the West. Chicago not making the playoffs is probably the highlight of the year already though. That and their goaltending being a total mess. Crow's injury isn't something i'd wish on anyone, especially if it is indeed career ending, but the horseshoe finally dropped completely on them with that and Quenneville possibly being out the door. Could have sworn i'd seen a Toews trade rumor out there somewhere, but I can't see him being traded, although it would free up a ton of cap depending what comes back. I just hope they don't somehow score a top 5 pick, or god forbid, Dahlin. Forgot to add that I couldn't stand the Leafs winning the Cup either. Never hear the end of it, although i think them winning one soon enough is inevitable. Just not yet. please. This city is like 40 percent Leaf fans, 40 percent Hab fans, and the rest a mix.

That sounds pretty bang on. There definitely are some skaters that shouldn't be in there. I was thinking of Grant Fuhr being in the hall. Really, he was only winning Cups and Awards with the powerhouse Oilers of the '80's. And even then, he wasn't the greatest goalie. Gretzky and the rest scored so many goals it didn't matter. Andy Moog could have done that. Ranford did it in 1990 without Gretzky. When Fuhr moved on, his career was nothing special at all. Some argue Osgood's success was a product of the team in front of him. So why does Fuhr get a pass on that? At least Osgood continued playing well after he left Detroit, and again when he returned. And wasn't Fuhr a woman beating coke head? lol That whole Oilers team was rumoured to love the blow in the 80's actually.

Yes, Hasek signed with Ottawa for the 2006 season. He was playing lights out for them too, up until the Olympics, where he had a season ending injury and probably screwed the Sens out of the Cup that season. I'm sure there would have been a few teams willing to take Hasek off Holland's hands for a great return in 2004, but he screwed the pooch on it all. When he was trying to trade Joseph instead, I think Joseph had a knee injury he was day to day with and no one wanted to take him at $8 million. Yeah, Giggy and Kipper were absolutely unreal. Giggy carried the Ducks through the entire playoffs. First player on the losing side to win the Smythe since Hextall in '87.

Howard isn't going anywhere until at least next seasons deadline. I sure hope Coreau isn't with the Wings come opening night. They have to pick up a journeyman backup this summer. If not, i'd be open to Machovsky getting a shot at the job, but he needs a contract too. Next offseason, theres a good list of UFA goalies that can be had. The ones that don't get re-signed first anyways, like Bobrovsky and Rinne surely will.

Was kind of impressive because it took him nearly two years to get one.

Hahaha That's what happens when you grow up playing the position till a bit past your teens and follow pro goalies more than any other players for decades because that part of the game interests you the most. You root for them to succeed, sometimes even regardless of if they play for your fave team or not, like I used to for Vanbiesbrouck for example.

HHOF shouldn't be a requirement for having your number retired. I know guys like Yzerman and Lidstrom were hall locks, but they're numbers were raised before that was official. Same will happen with Z. Goalies also seem to have a harder time getting into the hall than skaters, unless your Hasek or Brodeur. Guys like Joseph and Vernon aren't in yet either. Main knock on Joseph is no Cup, and Vernon I have zero clue what the issue is. The Cups, Awards, and stats are all there. Vernon's number is retired in Calgary already. I know Calgary isn't Detroit, but it's an example.