ami

NHL has been asking Ferh brothers this question for almost a year now. It looks like these unions pigs don't care.

Oh man, it has nothing to do with right of speech. It has everything to do with making sense of what you saying.He would make more sense demanding whales to stop committing suicides on public beaches.

True. There is no such thing as 'players lockout' True, as it guarantees they keep getting their paychecks. Of course, they have. Who wouldn't want to receive paychecks while doing their jobs?! However, the really important thing here is that businesses who pays these checks are loosing money and at some point of time won't be able to pay these checks anymore. and this point is not far away. I have to agree with you on this, provided you meant owner were being way too risky businesswise. I'd suggest you'd take Logic 101 course. For some reason, you accept owners assesment and willingness to pay $8 mln. to Toews, Crosby, Selanne etc., but won't agree with them paying Bettmen... Anyway, it is not you or Z who pays, but businesses who are earning these money and that's why they are the once who decides. On the other hand, Z's paying Fehr. And Fehr has failed to do what he was hired (by Z) to do. And now Z's complaining about everything, but Fehr... It sounds weird, doesn't it. As if he would compain that opposing team had won because they cheated all the way, while Z's team had played like a crap... I have. And I don't believe him. Why on the Earth would you believe this charachter Fehr, who knows nothing about hockey and has nothing to do with hockey and, on the other side, you would not believe Jim Devellano who has been living hockey all his live and has been running professional hockey organization for a long long time and knows everything about hockey? Why exactly? Logic 101 may help.

Z should just .... be quiet. It is ridiculous and inadequate when an employee of one of the company in big holding speak publicly about firing CEO. Oh if he brave enough, speak about Ilitch or Holland... Why dont he step into Mike Ilitch office and ask him to fire Battman? He is in no position to give such advise. What he should take care of is Fehr, as this clown is equally (or even more) responsible for what is happening.

http://reddit.com/comments/1076qg

brilliant! do i have to quote you addressing offtopic a few days ago and some deleted posts or we argee there were no offtopic in both cases?...

You took my arguments out of context. You keep saying what union's reps were says, and I keep saying what league's were saying. However, my talks are funny and have no ground while yours are universaly known truth. I said I haven't seen teams financial statement, but PA saw them for sure. However, they don't argue expense increase, they argue how much... I once said: 'yes, I dislike unions in general'English is obviously not my native language, but I'd never thought dislike is a synonym for hate. Well, I also dislike milk. Or should I now hate it?

Agree. This is exactly what I'm discussing here. I have once answered question if I know anything about unions in general. If this is considered offtopic, accept my appologies. Other than that, I'm sorry, I am discussing the lockout. If you disagree with me, as most here, that's fine, but nevertheless this is not a reason to shut me up. Is that understood?

First of all, it is not a matter of like or dislike. Second, it is not enough information here: increase in revenue does not alway mean increase in profit. I don't know anything about their expenses (btw, PA knows for sure). It wouldn't be matter if revenue skyrocketed, while expenses grow even faster. Look at some public companies' Form-10k for last 2-3 year. Many of them show increase in revenue, and decrease in profit. I haven't see nhl teams financial documents, however, I can reasonably assume they wont be far from the pattern I just mentioned. It is also indirectly proved by persistant talks about small market teams suffering despite inscreased revenue. Wow! Thats a bold statement. AFAIU, you refer to professional sports only, because I know plenty examples of businesses operating without unions and not concidered illegal. So, tell me, what is/are such drastic difference(s) that make operating proffesional sport team without a union illegal?I think if there is no PA, there would be no CBA, salary cap, max salaries, etc and lockouts... Any contract would be negotiated and signed by a team and a players, no one would force another to sign, etc. Yes, you are right owners come up with idea of cap to restrict PA growing power. However, in the free market, they would love to pay what they think is reasonable and players are free to sign or reject. I haven't had a single conclusion about league operating complexity... I just said that businesses intend to generated profit, otherwise they'll eventually die.

First, no, you're wrong, revenue is up 50% not profit. Second, it matters what they want more money for - owners need more money to cover increased expenses, where players just want guaranteed money. business doesn't work like this.

I can't find this article, but I'm pretty sure it was published on yahoo's nhl page. At the time, most of writes/talking heads indicated similar opinion. Who are running the league, teams? Don Fehr, players? No. Bettman, owners, managers? Yes. Who has means to solve business problems? Don Fehr, players? No. Bettman, owners, managers? Yes. No. I kept on the topic. In this post, I was answering the following question: And I gave an example of protecting membership on somebody esle's expense. All unions have a lot in common. And, yes, I don't like unions in general. This lockout is one more (one too many, actually) prove that my dislike has some ground. Many talks about so well established purpose of unions in profesional sport, but few tried to elaborate... And the league has reasons to believe, it is impossible to have viable business with current level of expenses.

I hate what Bettman does to game of hockey, but from business perspective he is doing pertty job and you have to admit, his employers like it. Yes, he is trying to manage expense and keep business at least viable. Union, on the other hand, wants guaranteed paychecks for its members. See the difference?

Protect the rights of players, keep them from getting crewed by owners? B**S**T!! If their role is so well established, spell it. Give one impiric example of player right violation that can not be spotted and fixed by his agent? Well, actually, I give one myself. Remember Fehr rejecting realignment despite majority of players and fans liked it... Really, and why exactly does Ferh keep bringing back subject of revenue share to the table?

Last time I checked, even players who never played in the league have agents, lawers etc. to help them with contract negotiation. These are getting paid by players and I haven't heard a player who was forced to sign a contract. Sometime, reading comments I picture these poor players as 5-year old kids who can barely read. But they are not! And by the way, I don't think PA and Don Fehr has a say in any of those contract negotiations. NHLPA is then a redundant organisation. Their bosses are not professional players, they are not running the league, they are not running a professional hockey clubs. Who are they? What they do? Protecting right, keeping players from getting screwed? Give me a one example of a right violated by club/leagu and a player suffering or give me a break. Agree. Not yet. We'll see. If season starts on time, I'll send him a post card with warm congrats. His success or failure is measured by revenue the league generates. This is a most important countable measure of "public confidence in the League". And you are absolutely right, the league revenue has increased by 50% in 7 years. However, increased revenue does not necceserally means increase in profit. And running a business, a professional hockey club, aims generating a profit. And I supposed you know that half of the league's teams are loosing money...

Are you aware how much Don Fehr and his little brother were making? Well above 2/3 of hockey players. And his sole purpose of existence - to negotiate new CBA. He failed. I very much dislike what Battman is doing, but from business perspective his done an OK job until yesterday, while Don Ferh is complete failure.

True, but these parties involved are not 5 year old kids, they are capable (should be) to anticipate consequences well before these occure.

Then, I assume, you believe we'll never see NHL again? If you think the new season will eventually starts, let assume for the sake of arguments, it starts on Jan 1st, 2013, 3 mouths lockout. That would mean positions had been reconciled sometimes between now and Jan 1st, 2013, i.e. with in aprx. 6 month from the begimming of the talks. Now lets assume talks would have started the week following All-Start break... I'm not saying all issues will definetly be resolved before Oct 6, but the probapility of it, is a way better then it is now.

Because I believe, eventually we going to see NHL season starts. It is a matter of time.

Although, prick is not a term used in negotiation, I'd disagree NHL is more pricks. I don't see any reasonable function of PA in todays world. Who is Don Fehr? Does he play professional hockey? Or does he run a bussness, or manage proffesional hockey organization? Oh, yes he protects players rights as a group. Not to mentioned an army of agents and lawyers who are also protecting rights, our poor players are left unprotected. I'm crying... Lets tell Parise hisf****** rights were brutally violated by Minissota Wild... And that poor guy Weber, he's left rotten under the sun by Nashvill Predators... I'm still crying...

Of course it is about timeline. I can reasonably assume, NHL offer would be the same in January, can't I? Then, instead of having 4-5 weeks to ping-pong offers, they would have 30+ weeks. However, PA decided to play blitz.

I don't understand why everyone is blaming Bettman alone? Why this guy Don Fehr and his little brother are not to blame too? Is this because Bettman salary is two times greater than Fehr's. NHL has been ready for negotiation long before New Year 2012, it's been said too many times. Fehr responded once saying talks will start sometime after All-Star break. Well he was right, talks started well after All-Star break. My understanding, this guy deliberatly waited until late August to start negotiation. He understand that NHL has everything to loose while he has already stopped drawing his salary on July 1st. He wanted to push NHL to the limit, use sense of urgency to negitiate in hes and (maybe) players favour. Ferh and his little brother earned to be blamed at least as much as Bettman.

No, this is Donald Fehr.below are his extended demands when he received an offer fro nhlpa: No comments needed. link: http://m.si.com/news...FCFC0DD.cnnsi2b And, fair CBA - NO CBA.

dont you think, this guy - Doanld Fehr - at least worth mentioning too? Those MFs, unions are ruining it first hand!!

I thought it had gotten to the point where it cannot get even more preposterous. i was wrong, very wrong - Doan demanded 4-year/$30mil contract...

I wrote happy birthday, Pavel in russian, and it got converted to bunch unocode chars... С Днем рожденья, Павел!!