ChristopherReevesLegs

Rule #1 Keep your stick on the ice Rule #2 DONT f*** WITH THAT MCILRATH GUY

4 year buyout length. $1.5 mil hit every year, except year two which is $6 mil!!! No doubt NY needs the money. Maybe Stephen can sign him for cheap to run the PP

Both McIsaac and Veleno may very well end up better than Zadina IMHO. Personally I think our forward depth chart is awesome. I'm much less keen on adding forward prospects, including centers, than many seem to be. Defense I still feel less safe. Outside of Hronek, Cholowski, McIsaac, and Seider it feels like a total crap shoot. Goalies I'm a little concerned about. If Larsson isn't our guy we could be in deep water. The rest of our goalie prospects are a total question mark. Personally I'd rather have the complete opposite and build from the net out like Nashville did.

No

Fair enough. Forgive my natural aversion to Leafbois. I love Babs as a coach so optics aside I'd welcome him with open arms. Would be fun to see him win a cup in Detroit, go to Toronto and fail, and then come back to Detroit and win his 2nd cup lol.

I respect the optimism that you think the team can be a contender in two years, but based on Yzerman's behavior I don't think you're going to get your wish. That's really the foundation of what I built my original post on. I was trying to divine Yzerman's general plan. Adding Fil and Nemeth for $6 mil for 2 years indicates to me that he has no intention of being competitive in the next 2 years unless the kids force us there. Lump an expansion draft on top of that and I think it's all the more reason to stand pat for the last year of Fil and Nemeth's contract. I'm not saying that necessarily would have been my plan, I'm just trying to divine the immediate future and build out from there. Notice that MY plan is to immediately accelerate after the immediate 2 year stretch... I think our vision is more alike than it is different. But basically you're okay pushing for a cup when Mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi are 27, but if they're 29 it's better to just blow the team up again? Sorry, I think that's just silly willy. How old are these FA's you're planning to add over the next 2 seasons? My guess is they're probably gonna be around 29. What happens when you don't win the cup in 2 seasons or 3? Now you have even more "declining" players. Time to blow it up? I think you're bored and you're being overly contentious. I have no problem being competitive in 2 years and I'm pretty amiable to most strategies, I just don't think that's very realistic based on the moves we've seen by Yzerman so far. If you disagree, then you have a lot more faith than me yes. I thought I was being overly optimistic saying we'd be contenders after 4 years lol. But at the end of the day I'm not throwing AA, Mantha, and Betuzzi out for draft picks just cause they're 29 and the rebuild wasn't as fast as you hoped. If you don't like that, call it difference in philosophy. You're not wrong, but this is really just a side point to my entire outlook that would only be distracting to dig into. Therefore I'll just concede the point. Let's add this to the mix: Yzerman didn't build the Lightning through FA and openly admits he doesn't like FA, preferring to build a team through drafting and trading. So why do you think Yzerman is suddenly going to go FA heavy and floor the gas peddle to get us to cup contention in 2 years? My point about leaders was I much prefer leaders who've been with a team for a while. Your off hand comment: "plus you're going to have veteran FAs regardless so I don't see why they couldn't provide any leadership." is what I primarily disagree with here. You make it sound like we can chuck in any old FA vet and they will be leaders. I think anyone who's been on a competitive team or in a competitive company, would say that's very naive. Most real leadership is built simply on experience and trust within a group. That's why I much I'd much prefer TEAM veterans to "FA vets". Sure maybe you can add a star like Panarin and he can win the room in 6 months... but that means you're forsaking a few established young Red Wings on your team, for the CHANCE to overpay one FA who may or may not be a leader as well. I'd rather just keep a 29 year old well-liked Bertuzzi around. Poophead

I think we are 100% on the same page here, with at least what's bolded. I guess I just have more faith in the current core we're about to grow with than you do. I can tell you're bored Yeah man expansion is a total non issue. Won't even effect us probably. Signing more good players right now certainly wouldn't make it tougher either. That much is clear. I operate under the wild assumption that prospect projection is widely different than contract negotiation. Also there's a difference between acceptable risk and unacceptable risk. I think one is a clear example of the later and the other a clear example of the former. If you don't understand the difference between leadership from guys in their mid twenties and free lance vets between guys with 10 years experience in an organization I think you're either being purposefully obtuse, are incredibly young and naive, or your socially autistic. Agree with your premise, disagree with your conclusion. You don't think we need 4 seasons of work? I'm being completely sincere and inquisitive here You're drunk

Obvious +10 pts Veleno. Love Veleno. But also Dach looks really good. Any of the fans freaking about reaching for him in Chicago I think should feel dumb. Bowman did the smart move there.

In 2 seasons is when I expect Yzerman to put his foot on the gas. I think we're due for another offseason next year similar to this one we just had based on the stop gaps he signed and the looming expansion. By foot on the gas I mean instead of signing a stop gap like Filppula, you go for FAs or trades like Panarin or Gusev, in a general sense. Does that mean I think we'll be big time players after year 2? No. I just think that's the right time based on our existing contracts and the expansion draft passing to get creative and abandon the holding pattern we seem to be in. I think 2 years of successful tweaking and roster building at the end of this window could put us into a position to contend beginning in year 5, the start of Larkin's next contract. We can agree to disagree here then I guess. I personally do not want to cycle out good players like Bertuzzi, AA, and Mantha, for draft picks that might not even be diddly, just because those 3 players might be 29 when we contend again. 1. Because I believe in building team culture (I do not think random FA vets are an equal substitute for team vets) 2. 29 is not that old to me, many players have solid years of productivity after this age. 3. Constantly hitting the reset button does not appeal to me. If we are at serious risk of losing these players then trade them prior to UFA. I don't want anyone who does not want to be here. If that return is slightly diminished because the player is 28 and not 25 it doesn't really bother me at all. That's acceptable risk. I don't think management has written the season off. We're just in a holding pattern. Not ready to invest in big names and cap yet... but here's a Fippula, see what you can do with that for the time being... I agree with you that this year will be all about the kids progression. Maybe if we can have enough success Yzerman will be motivated to accelerate this thing faster. I just think it would be smart to lay low for one more off season after this regular season. Then hit the ground running.

Me too. It's more or less the optics I have a problem with. He's our guy... until suddenly we look bad and the Leafs look good... and now that we look good again and the Leafs look bad he wants to come crawling back? Nah, bro, you picked your bed.

Oh god. IDK. On the one hand, I really like Babs as a coach. On the other he spurned us for our eternal rival and should be drawn and quartered. Think I'd rather have Stevie take a fresh approach like he did with Cooper

Considering future back scratches

If I'm Stevie I give Blash the next two seasons to earn my trust. After that I start to look around the room if necessary.

Isn't Callahan LTIR eligible? LTIR doesn't begin until regular season start, so I would assume this is making off season cap space for a Point signing. That said, even though Cally won't count against their cap, seems like a lot of real dollar salary to take on to move up 30 places in the late rounds.

Who says that? All three could possibly be core forwards on this team till 35 or later. I don't know how their respective careers will play out over the next 4 years, or the next 10. So? I think it's important to keep the core of this team intact for now. If we're going to accelerate and start becoming competitive again in 2 seasons, I think those 3 players will probably be crucial to that. 29/30 is simply the age I think we will need to reevaluate these players. Have their been injury problems? Have their been attitude problems? Are they good leaders/mentors for younger players? Are we close on compensation or far apart? Are there younger players ready to fill their roles? Etc Etc Which is precisely why I think we should take a hard look at them at that point of their career. I'm not willing to say that yet. I think the next 4 year window is a good span of time to evaluate and project that though. Again, I don't share your sense of urgency at all here. Larkin will be 27 when his next contract begins. His window will very much still be open at that point.

Rags get top pair RHD (Trouba) Devs get top pair RHD (Subban) Rags get top 2 pick (Kakko) Devs get top 2 pick (Hughes) Rags get star Russian winger (Panarin) Devs get star Russian winger (Gusev) It's basically a nuclear arms race in the New York bay right now. Sure seems like Yzerman is 100% committed to the tank for now. Not adding the Gusevs of the world and keeping the Ericssons around will ensure that happens for the time being.

I'm not at all interested in making the team worse right now by sending off core players like Mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi for picks or prospects. If you're concerned about getting a good return for these players perhaps consider not trading them at all or giving them longer contracts? At age 29/30 is simply the point where I'd look around and decide if I'd want to move forward with them as vets or not regardless of what their contract looks like. If everything goes relatively well with these 3 players I'd be absolutely ok with moving into phase 2 (Larkin's 2nd contract) with them on the roster.

IDK if that needs to be ASAP, but depending on the situation I'd be ok trading any of them within the 4 year window for the right package. All three will be about 28 in 4 years. Ideally I'd like to hold each of those players till about 29/30. Then either commit to them as veteran leaders or ship them off. As I pointed out in my take on the next 4 years, I'd like to start accelerating this thing in year 3. I think it's probably necessary to have them, or a similar player in their place, on the roster if that's going to happen.

No kidding. Adding Subban/Hughes/Gusev in one off season is pretty heckin nice. Hall - Hischier - Palmieri Gusev - Hughes - Bratt Wood - Zajac - Simmonds Coleman - Zacha - Rooney Vatanen - Subban Butcher - Severson Mueller - Carrick Greene Schneider Blackwood That entire lineup looks really nice. The Rags and the Devs both got a lot better this offseason. Should be fun watching them play each other this year.

And MSL and Marchessault didn't even really make the league till they were like 24. We got some time with this kid.

Ideally I think he needs like 20 more lbs if he's gonna make it. How hard could that be?

I'd define the current window we are in as: The Larkin's First Contract Window (4 years remaining) After this 4 year window Larkin will become UFA and will likely command somewhere between $9 and $12 million by today's cap. That will change the landscape of this team a bit, and If we aren't already there I think we should be clearly transitioning into a win now mode by that point. So basically I think the absolute max on this Yzerman rebuild should be the next 4 seasons. Year 1 (2019-20 season) Primary goal: Sign Mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi to favorable extensions I'd like to see something like 3-5 year extensions for each. Locking them in for the prime years of their careers. If there are performance/negotiation issues this season maybe a 1 year prove-it/bridge extension, maintaining RFA control after the contract is up. Secondary goal: Sell UFA's for extra picks. This is secondary because it will be based on the performance of the team this year, and who knows, maybe we flirt with the playoffs. Also the two primary pieces are Howard and Green. Both vets who seem to want to be here long term so I'm not opposed to re-signing them to shorter cheaper deals as well. Year 2 (2020-21 season) Primary goal: Remain lean I think we should remain patient and have a similar offseason to this one. AKA make some good draft picks, sign maybe a stop-gap or two if needed, and shed contracts (Ericsson and Daley primarily). The Seattle expansion is looming and if we remain lean we won't be forced to lose much of anything of value. Secondary goal: Sell UFA's for extra picks We have Helm, Filppula, Nemeth, and Bernier leaving the roster at the end of this season. We may not get anything of value for them at the TDL, so it may just be worth it to ride out the season with them. Hence a secondary goal. Year 3 (2021-22 season) Primary goal: Acceleration Yzerman now has 3 drafts under his belt and the team should look drastically different at this point. The only contracts remaining from the Holland era at this point are Larkin, Abdelkader, Nielsen, and Dekeyser, with the last 2 about to expire. The expansion draft should be in the rearview and so I think now is the right time to put the peddle down and chase big names in FA or trade. Even if we are not a top contender it would be good to start at least making the playoffs to get the kids some post season experience. Year 4 (2022-23 season) Primary goal: Same as year 3 We should be focused on signing Larkin to a franchise record contract extension and adding to a young roster where hopefully other elite players like Zadina and Seider etc have emerged to lead the team. After this season Abby's big contract will be off the books which in my mind will finally put to bed the Holland era and a new window of Red Wings hockey should open. Next Window: Larkin's Second Contract AKA the return to cup contention.

Yeah I meant if we won MORE games and lowered our draft position. Seider was the guy regardless. Who knows if Holland would have taken him at 8 though.

I think you are right about the 2 years. I think really only Helm is expiring after that 2nd year, but still think you're right.