ChristopherReevesLegs

I wish someone would break down the team, our needs, and a few of the players theyd personally like to draft...

We havent drafted a superstar since 04, pair that wirh the complete mismanagement of McKees career, and im starting to wonder where Hollands head is at.

No

No

Better question is Does Holland have the courage to NOT tank this team? I honestly hope we trade Holmstrom and 3rd for Fedor Tyutin, just for the meltdown.

No

I don't think Sweden makes em like Lilja anymore

Wow, we did it! We finally got to the same conclusion. And who would've guessed we'd agree?? Wowzers, and it only took an entire page of thread to get there. Now we can go back to talking about tanking or whatever this thread is about.

He's had concussion issues since 16 years old. How long have you been watching him??

You are correct. I originally said 10 years off the cuff, not thinking this was going to be such a point of contention and have since refined my point. At this point of the convo you should be well aware of that and my position (I hope), and that I am referring to the 8 years prior to the Mantha selection. You did not answer my question though. I will restate. Do you believe from 05-12 we made poor first selections?

Concussions will do that to desire. This team started get run by others teams rats as soon as Lilja was gone.

So then you agree 05-12 we made poor first selections? You show me where I shifted positions. You misinterpreted my original post about first selections, and began debating against a ton of different points that I never made. And I've spent most of this thread trying to explain that to you and drag you back on topic, but to no avail, cause here we go again. I never said late first round and high 2nd round picks should be stars. I said as of late our first selections have been weak. THAT'S IT. My position has not changed. I don't know what you find so confusing about this.

This team would be better if we were able to keep firepower guys like Franzen around. Unfortunately Holland likes watching soft hockey and refuses to invest in tough customers that will protect our stars.

I mean if you think our first selections from 05-12 were good choices, then we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. We passed on a lot of better players with those picks.

Well even if we replace blash its unlikely we will get a babs caliber coach. my point being blash may be pretty standard and the roster needs changing

What does that have to do with the wings? Are trying to imply that because the Penguins also made poor selections our bad first picks are now justified? Again, i think youre reading too much into this. i do not think the wings are bad drafters.

Yes, but does that mean Babcock was an amazing coach who was getting a lot out of average players and now average players are average under an average coach? Or is the roster ok and Blash just sucks?

Finally, we're getting somewhere. Lets look at our first selections since 2000. 1. Kronwall - Great 2. Grigorenko - Crap 3. Hudler - Great 4. Howard - Great 5. Franzen - Great 6. Kindl - Crap 7. Emmerton - Crap 8. Smith - Crap 9. McCollum - Crap 10. Ferraro - Crap 11. Sheahan - Crap 12. Jurco - Crap 13. Frk - Crap 14. Mantha - Great 15. Larkin - Great 16. Svechnikov - Too Soon 17. Cholowski - Too Soon Now if you're in love with Smith and Sheahan or something, we can debate that. But IMO I see a solid 8 years of bad selecting with our first pick, from Kindl to Frk. It's not "random conjecture" lol. And before you start reading too much into things again, all I meant by my comment was that our first selections have been unusually bad as of late. That's it. I get that you think I think we're going to blow a potential top 5 pick (I don't), but that's not at all the point i'm trying to argue.

Well if I was trying to prove something about draft luck, or top 5 picks, or about our low drafting position that would be all fine and good... But I'm not commenting on any of those things. Despite my best efforts, you continue to commit red herrings and misrepresent my point lol. Look, in regards to our first selections, we had good players like Kronwall, Fischer, Hudler, Howard, Franzen coming in almost every year. Then after Franzen we have an unusual string of bad first selections for about 8 years up until Mantha. That's it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to develop a "metric" or argue the "potential outcome of a top 5 pick". F. Micheal made an off-hand comment about our luck lately drafting and I made an off hand comment about our first selections being bad as of late. THAT IS LITERALLY IT. How else do I need to explain this to you?

Again, not talking about first round picks. I say first selections because I'm including guys like Frk who are 2nd rounders. IMO the distinction between a late 1st and high 2nd just because of the round is pretty arbitrary. Sheahan and Smith are crap picks IMO. I think they are both pretty valueless players. "with our luck, we'd draft a bust in the top 5," - Correct, this is how the dialogue started. And my response was pretty much yeah our first selections have been pretty crap lately. That's it. If we had more top 5 picks to compare to I would have, but we don't. You seem intent on misrepresenting the conclusion I'm trying to reach. I'm not arguing about first round picks, I'm not arguing about the wings overall drafting ability, and I'm not arguing about any of the 29 other teams. So if you are going to respond to those points, and not mine, AGAIN, then you are wasting your time and I suggest we drop it.

Are you talking about the article I posted? It talks about how his defensive game is bad and he's taking a ton of dumb penalties, oh and not scoring to boot lol. And this is in the AHL. Quality s*** posting sir

Preach!

IMO YES. Why are you asking me to state the same thing 3 or 4 times??? The only good first selections we've had are Mantha and Larkin in the last 10 years. I'm not comparing that to anyone, but if you would like to (saying this now for the 2nd time) go ahead and compare that to the 29 other teams in the league and prove me wrong. This is getting ridiculous.

Spooky

Dude. i dont know how to spell it out for you any plainer. im not arguing our drafting is bad. im arguing that our first selections for the past 10 years have been bad. thats it. you continue to take off on a whole other argument that we probably share the same view on. either address my actual point or move on