larionov_8

Certainly glad to see the wings go into the 3rd tied rather than losing. Ps - I normally watch games on NHL gamecentre but am currently in Austria and can't seem to get it to work on my phone. If anyone knows a stream that would work, I'd be very grateful for the opportunity to watch the third! Should be a good one!

I have to assume that the coach understands the tendencies of the players, especially the ones he coached in GR, and thus some of the line combinations. But tonight's game highlights that some of the "current lines" are not working. What makes sense to me as a fan is : ​AA - Pavel - Mantha ​Abby - Z - Nyquist ​Tatar - Larkin - Sheahan ​Helm - Glendening - Richards ​Perhaps rotating Sheahan / Helm / Richards on that "3rd line" and working in Datsyuk to get him a few more shifts than he'd see with his linemates alone. I think these lines offer a good combination of speed, size, skill and each one should be able to score goals and play decent D. ​On D, what makes sense to me: Dekeyser - Green ​Kronwall - Marchenko ​Quincey - Smith I don't think the system of like-with-like is working, so these represent an attempt at more "balanced" pairings. And something is seriously wrong with Ericsson (perhaps permanently) so I think that's addition by subtraction right there. If only they can find a way to get him off of the roster....buy out? expansion draft?...I can't imagine they could find a trade partner, but maybe they can find a D upgrade by moving Smith and one of Jurco or Teemu. Looking forward to seeing when they can do against MTL!

Touche! I don't mean to defend Nyquist's play, that's for sure. You could argue that his inability to score is one of the major reasons the PP is struggling. I only mean to say that if the PP was doing well, he'd likely be factoring in on more goals (as was the case last year, where he scored many of his) and therefore it would be easier to see past his obvious shortcomings as a player. ​And so, perhaps if the Wings can find a way to generate on the PP, it would look less appealing to see Nyquist gone. In the same breathe, there are guys that I don't see turning the corner. I'd be quite happy if Smith and Ericsson played their last games as Wings. I suppose it's more likely that Quincey will leave as a free agent and perhaps Smith gets dealt next year at some stage too. Can't imagine anyone taking Ericsson and his contract. And the doubt has really got to be creeping in for guys like Jurco and Pulkkinen.

Very true, but a lot of guys are having down years, stats-wise. Riley Sheahan has scored about a half point per game in the two last seasons while this year he's at half that rate. I think the biggest challenge is the dramatic drop in the powerplay. Whether that's the result of subtractions (e.g. coaches/systems), additions (e.g. Green) or just the same guys not playing well, who knows....I wish we had the solution to get it back where it was. ​One would have to think that if their PP was producing at the rate of last year, the Wings place in the standings would be a little less precarious than they are today.

Exactly, the writing was on the wall for this signing since last summer. As Holland said about Cleary at training camp "at some point and time as the season wears on or next summer, we'll try to find a way to keep him in a Red Wing uniform for longer than a year." I'm a bit surprised they needed to bother with a bonus - 1 year at 1 million should've been plenty. I agree with Holland that Cleary could be a solid depth player if he's healthy, but agree with pretty much every fan that this will be regrettable if it results in a better player sitting on the bench or in the minors (e.g. Jurco, Ferraro, Callahan). I recall reading that Callahan would be happy to re-sign with GR to continue to work on his game, so if Alfie does not re-sign, perhaps it will only be Ferraro left in the lurch. The good news is that Cleary's deal is only 1 year, so that gives more flexibility moving forward.

With the playoffs over for the Wings, the UFA speculation can begin in full force. I wanted to start a thread about a specific player: Nikolai Kulemin. I've always thought Kulemin had a lot of upside and that he would put up quality points with offensive players and some PP time. He has size (similar to Abdelkader) and can hit. He's still young, fairly durable. He earns 2.8 mil with Toronto, hard to put a value on him given that he put up 30 goals a few seasons back but has played a very defensive role in Toronto since then. Living near Toronto I've had some opportunity to watch him play; here is some highlights: If our UFA forwards are not resigned (and this seems fairly likely to me), the Wings have room for a winger. If you were Ken Holland, would you offer him a contract, and if so, how much and how long?

I agree that the D probably needs the most attention, but given the potential exodus of forwards, I'm curious what folks would think about Kulemin (UFA)? I think he would be a guy who could play anywhere in our forward group, including a winger with Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, and more affordable and younger than guys like Moulson, Vanek, etc.

I would agree, don't need the flashiest names. I think a good fit upfront would be Nik Kulemin. - He's a guy who can play in the corners, in front of the net, and in all situations - has a very good shot - has size and relative youth: about 6'1, 225lbs, 27 yrs old - scheduled to be a UFA if Toronto doesn't or can't re-sign - would cost much less than a guy like Callahan On D, I like Matt Greene. Big right handed Michigan fella. Not having a great playoffs with LA right now, but if he tests free agency I think he'd be an upgrade over Lashoff or Quincey. Would be tempting to look at a vet offensive D man like Boyle or Zidlicky but we have so many offensive type guys that I would worry we'd be even more porous on the back end. Keeping Quincey is an option of course, though I suspect another team might offer him more than Detroit is willing to. Lines could look something like: Z - Dats - Kulemin (3 mil) Nyquist - Weiss - Franzen Abdelkader - Helm - Tatar Miller - Andersson - Sheahan Ferraro/Callahan *Glendening, Jurco are call ups Kronwall - Dekeyser Ericsson - Smith Kindl - Greene (3 mil) Lashoff, (Almquist)

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere over the last 36 pages, but what I notice most about Jimmy's play this season is he seems to be playing extremely aggressively, coming quite far out of his net and whatnot. I can understand why he might be doing it: if you're struggling, you are just trying to make yourself big. But I think it is a big part of all of the "bad bounce" type of goals that seem to be constantly going in against him. It actually reminds me of what he looked like when he first entered the league, and the Wings had to learn really quickly to take away the pass, or the other team had an open net. A great example was the other night's game where he got beat so hard on a 2-on-1, because he had come out so far to challenge the shooter and didn't anticipate the pass...can't even remember the opponent but there have been enough examples. And of course, the defense won't want to just take the pass and let Howie take the shooter, if those shots are going in with increasing frequency. And so it is a terrible feedback cycle: they aren't confident in him, so they play the shooter more, the puck is passed into the net and he looks even more terrible. The confidence of him and the whole team erodes. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Would be nice to give Mrazek a shot at the back up role but given Jimmy's shaky season my bet would be that they'll try to bring in someone with more NHL experience. The Monster is an option. Just the other week I was thinking he would be a shoe-in to resign. But based on this most recent injury it makes me wonder whether the Wings might decide "enough is enough." I think this is especially the case because, as you note, he would probably prefer a multi-year deal where the Wings only need a guy for one-year, in my view. Perhaps it will come down to whether he will want to continue his career here or not. He might get some two year offers elsewhere but I don't see anyone bringing him on to be a starter.

One way or another it looks like we'll have good depth upfront! Where I am concerned most is our defence. Lots of chatter about whether or not to keep Quincey but the other reality is that he may not want to stay, especially for what Detroit may be wiling to offer, and there isn't a lot of depth out there in the UFA market. The good players will seek a premium, and Quincey is one of the few UFA dmen who is still in his 20 and also averages over 20 minutes a night. I think it's fair to say that the success of this team has been built on quality defensemen in the past. These are the guys who have to spend the most time on the ice. Having Ericsson, Quincey, Dekeyser among your top minute guys just isn't good enough right now...not to say they aren't good players but as a top 4 unit (with Kronwall), they aren't strong enough. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Wings add an offensive guy (Boyle or Zidlicky are a couple right handed shooters who come to mind). But mostly I think we need a steady defensive guy: I think Matt Greene would be a great fit if he is unsigned after July 1st. I think both Kindl and Smith can move the puck and would excel with a steady stay at home guy like that. I don't think Quincey (who is prone to mistakes and doesn't seem to offer any offense these days) or Lashoff (who plays sheltered minutes) are the answers. If we commit more of our cap dollars to the players who play the most -- the D-men -- I think we would be looking at much better result at this time next year.

Thanks Buppy. I knew of capgeek's waiver calculator but it tells me that he has 2 years of exemption (2 left this year, one next year). Since I had heard he wouldn't be exempt next year, I was trying to get a handle on how that's calculated and what the right answer is! Fortunately there are people who get paid to figure these things out so I don't need to worry about it too much....

Not to get off topic, as this has an influence on who makes what, but I think this year's experience demonstrates that the wisest course of action would have Jurco and Glendening start the year in GR. There will be injuries, and when there are, I'd rather see these guys, who have shown they are capable, fill a role, over a player who may not be ready. Meanwhile they can play big minutes and continue to learn how to win with GR. Given that we have enough youth already (Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Andersson, plus potentially Ferraro and Callahan - Helm and Abby aren't "old" and there are 3 young guys on the D too), there is value in filling out the roster with veterans who can also fill some roles (e.g. Legwand and Alfie). That gives us the kind of depth needed to compete in this league when those injuries hit. I think this stretch of games right now is showing that it is a lot to ask of these young guys to drive the bus themselves. Hopefully they will be ready to take on bigger roles as they develop but they are still young and raw in some ways. On a less argumentative note, can anyone explain why Almquist is / is not waiver-exempt in 2014-15?

I agree with Dickie, re: Jurco. He's waiver exempt so I think it's likely he'll start in GR. And my impression (from around here) was that Glendening is also waiver-exempt, at least heading into next year so that would potentially "free up" another spot (though Babs probably wants him on the roster). As we know from this year, the most worthy players don't always start out the year with the big club! I've also got the impression from around here that Almquist is not waiver-exempt next year, but did he not sign his contract a year later than Callahan and Ferraro? I know there are other factors that influence waiver exemption but I'm not informed enough to break it down. I think it's clear that Callahan and Ferraro are not waiver-exempt in 2014-15, but do we know definitively whether that's true of Almquist too? I wouldn't be surprised if Wings have to / choose to expose one of those guys to waivers next year -- they did so with Emmerton so I'd assume they'd do the same, at least for Callahan, if needed.

- I agree (and hope) Bert will retire - I don't see any of the RFAs earning more than 2 mil - If Alfie comes back, I would think that 4 mil is fair (comparable to Franzen) - If Legwand wants to come back, I would hope they could make it happen for under 3.5, given that he'll be 34. Likely the longer they sign him, the less he'd be willing to accept - I also don't necessarily see Jurco and Glendening have guaranteed spots on the roster. If they can play in GR, I think Detroit would be happy to have them as call ups - this is true depth, and needed, given that so many of our players have serious injury problems - Depending on what is done with the GR players who are not roster exempt, as well as Alfie (and whether Tootoo is bought out) I think this will affect whether Cleary would be offered a contract as the 13th forward -- if so, 1mil. They do like him in the dressing room and everything they said at the start of the year suggested they would try to resign him. Hopefully the emergence of their younger guys will allow them to cut bait on him. I love Danny's heart but I'm not sure he's got much left in the tank. Personally I'd rather hold onto Jordin Tootoo, already under contract at 1.9, than have Cleary at a similar rate, since Tootoo offers a more physical element (and frankly, deserves better than the AHL) - I doubt Quincey will accept much of a pay cut so I see him resigned at a similar rate or replaced by another player at a similar rate - Gus returns at 2mil, one year; or another NHL tender. With Mrazek close, I think they could risk it on Gus, despite the potential for injury. Z (6) - Dats (7.5) - Franzen (4) Leggy* (3.5) - Weiss (4.9) - Alfie* (4) Nyquist (.95) - Helm (1.2) - Tatar (1.2) Miller (1.35) - Andersson (.95) - Abby (1.8) Sheahan (.95) and 1-3* of Tootoo/Cleary/Callahan/Ferraro (or Almquist, if they carry 8 D) Kronner (4.75) - E (4.25) DK (1.5) - Smith (1.25) Kindl (2.4) - Q (3.75) Lashoff (.725) Howie (5.3) Gus (2) If the salary cap is 71 million, Detroit would still have 4-5 mill in cap space roughly based on these salaries.

Interesting perspective for sure about the summer training. Now this is purely speculative because I'm not looking closely at the schedules, but certainly last year with the lockout and this year with the Olympics, there's lots of talk about a "condensed schedule" and if that is true, it would be logical that players miss more games than normal despite the "normal" length of injury. So the lack of recovery time during the season might be why some of these injuries persist. I think, too, that the Wings systems demand a lot of their players in terms of skating and, ideally, grinding. As the team's overall skill level decreases (undeniably), so too do they need to grind more and, being a team of mostly smaller players upfront, it seems reasonable that this might lead to a higher level of injuries than the majority of teams. I think controlling the puck less makes it inevitable that playes will be injured more, whether that is from blocking shots, other team's forechecks, etc. Of course this interpretation of things makes sensed based on what I see in Detroit, but the logic might not hold up if applied to other teams. And so, I am just spitballin. Of course there will be the inevitable wearing down of bodies regardless of skill (see Alfredsson, Datsyuk) and chronic injuries that plague certain players for years (see Zetterberg and Bertuzzi's backs and Franzen's head). We hope that players are taking the right measures during the summer to ensure they are best prepared to avoid reinjury, but I guess there's only so much they can do.

I guess if the players who are "out of options" must pass through waivers to start the season, that does cause some issues. I had been thinking of a situation like Nyquist's, where he stayed in the minors to start the season before he was called up, but I guess technically he wasn't out of options at that time. A roster with all of those players included would look like: Z - Dats - Mule Abdelkader - Weiss - Tatar Miller - Helm - Nyquist Sheahan - Andersson - Tootoo Ferraro - Callahan Kronwall - Ericsson Dekeyser - Smith Lashoff - Kindl Almquist Howie Mrazek Based on recent history I would be suprised to see the Wings not spend that 16 million dollars in potential cap space, in favour of letting two kids (M Callahan, Ferraro) and/or Tootoo sit on the bench. Makes me think: 1. Tootoo buy out may be more likely than I thought before, given that roster space, not cap space, may be their biggest issue, and they hopefully would not put him in the AHL for another full season 2. Wouldn't be surprised to see one of Almquist, Ferraro or Callahan included, if the Wings actually make some kind of trade. 3. The Wings will retain/sign a backup with NHL experience rather than turning the roll over the Mrazek before needed

Oh god, definitely being sarcastic! He's a shell of his former self. We had just exchanged some extended dialogue about other UFA options and this comment was meant more as sarcastic exasperation in the lack of options (Heatley epitomizing that reality). I do agree that if many of Detroit's own UFAs are allowed to walk, they will be active to bring in some depth. Though it is a rebuild, they will want to be competitive. I recently read comments from Vanek where he spoke about money and term being the biggest concerns for him. And so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Islanders throw big money and term at him. It's hard to imagine that some team won't offer a longer term to guys like Moulson, Callahan, Girardi, etc., if these guys go to free agency. This is why I was suggesting earlier in this thread that more depth guys (e.g. Kulemin, Setoguchi) might be worth a look as they would be more likely to consider short-term deals, and if they don't work out, you aren't stuck with them for too long. I watched a clip on sportsnet where they talked about Steve Ott possibly being a deadline acquisition for Detroit, among others. http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/video-will-steve-ott-be-moved-if-so-where He's a guy I could imagine Detroit acquiring (if he could be had for a pick and/or lesser prospect) and trying to keep around. Assuming they do let Bertuzzi walk, I think they will try to get someone with some size and, ideally, who play with a bit of an edge and who are capable of adding some scoring depth.

It's an intriguing idea. If this forum is any indication, the masses would override Ken Holland's expressed wishes. On the other hand, he said these things in training camp after Cleary had a fairly impactful playoffs. So maybe even he will change his mind, if there are other options on the horizon.

Screw it, I just say they sign Dany Heatley in the off-season and call it a day...

Yes, they seem to come to a total number of goals they want to score in a year and then slot guys in: "Bert can score 15, Samuelsson can score 20," etc etc. Of course the assumption being that what they've done in the past, they will be able to repeat. That assumption is what seems to scare them away from the young players: they haven't proven what they're capable of yet in the NHL. I'm not saying I disagree with your argument, I just feel like this is the philosophy the Wings have stuck too and though it must be changing to some extent, I suspect some of this thinking will persist. I guess this is why I find guys like Kulemin or Setoguchi theoretically interesting. They could provide some scoring depth because they have proven capability to score goals. And being still in their 20s and not having terribly great seasons, they could likely be had for less and if they do play well, they could be guys you want to keep around. It is a risk, for sure, and obviously might not always pay off but if they have the cap space and roster space, at the worse you've added some depth in the short term. Better to take a risk on a young veteran with some upside versus an old guy who definitely can't be part of the future. But I have to agree with you that the UFA cupboard seems pretty bare. Looking over the list, two other folks who come to mind to me as potential Wings targets would be Ryan Callahan or Milan Michalek. Michalek is having a terrible year but is going to be an Olympian for the Czech's (beat out Jiri Hudler) and is over 6' and 200 lbs, unlike many of the Wings forwards under contract next year. Unfortunately both seem to have issues with injury, especially Michalek -- but again that's what makes me think there's a chance they could even be available! Other than that, guys like Vrbata, Marleau, Iginla...regardless of whether or not the Wings would even be interested, I just don't see them leaving their respective clubs.

As Clearly himself explained (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FggT39NPVG8), he actually wanted only a one year contract. Given that he also wants to be in Detroit longer, the only reason I can understand that he would take a shorter deal is that Detroit had a cap space crunch, but he believed he was worth more and that he could play well enough to earn more in his next contract. I feel like it's similar to the situation in Ottawa, where Alfie took less money and then felt slighted when he wasn't given more to compensate in his next contract. I think Cleary has taken less with the impression that Detroit would "take care of him" with a bigger and/or longer contract afterwards. Given the shape he's in though, it's hard to see if they could justify giving him another contract let alone a raise. That said, depending on other signings Detroit may have more roster room than they had this past year, when they had no space and still signed Cleary. Because of this I honestly think we will see him re-signed. As Holland said at training camp "at some point and time as the season wears on or next summer, we'll try to find a way to keep him in a Red Wing uniform for longer than a year." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG6LST7PPLc I can't see any other team offering him the kind of money that Philly apparently was going to, and so if Detroit does offer him a contract, I hope they come to terms on 1-year at about 1 million. At that rate, it's a low risk deal and I don't mind Cleary as a depth player as long as he's not taking a roster spot from someone who is already under contract.

Can't disagree with you. I always thought Setoguchi had some skills when we saw lots of him in San Jose. I guess Detroit's had good success with "reclamation projects" in the past. But you being in Manitoba, chances are you've watched some Jets games and know better than me if there's anything to work with! I certainly don't think Cleary's earned another contract, while I respect his heart. But at the same time, it's hard for me to accept that no UFAs will be re-signed on forward or on D, for a few reasons: - the organization has an usual affinity for veterans - we lack size upfront which is probably why guys like Cleary and Bert have held on as long as they have - given our number of injuries, maybe they will try to find strength in numbers... If they can get a guy like Moulson or Vanek, that would certainly be exciting. I just don't know how possible that is, given that those two are probably the top two UFAs and I'm not sure Detroit will be willing to pay as much as some other teams might.

I'm wondering whether, just because these guys will be exposed to waivers, whether they still couldn't be in the AHL. Emmerton is there, for example, and he's technically out of options too. Since all of these players are RFAs, I would guess they could be signed and kept in the AHL - or called up/down if the Wings aren't too concerned with losing them. I suppose it's more about space in GR, but my point is, perhaps just because they are out of options doesn't mean they're in Detroit or otherwise let go. I think the roster will look something similar to what LeftWing wrote, without too many major additions: Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen Tatar - Weiss - Aflie* Abdelkader - Helm - Nyquist Miller - Andersson - Tootoo** Sheahan Kronwall - Ericsson Dekeyser - Smith UFA/Quincey*** - Kindl Lashoff Howard Mrazek * or another secondary winger, if Alfie retires: I could see UFAs Setoguchi (he has struggled in WPG, unlikely to be resigned) or Kulemin (may want more $ than Toronto wants to offer) being a good fit on the 2nd or 3rd line ** I have a terrible suspicion that Cleary will be resigned. I would rather see Tootoo get his chance. For Babcock I think the knock against Tootoo isn't that he doesn't score many points (neither does Glendening), but that he doesn't kill penalties. *** if they do let Quincey walk, I think they will choose to add some depth. It would be great if they could bring a righty. Big minute guys like Girardi or Matt Greene would help - this roster would allow for the cap hit - but given they will be hot commodies if they hit free agency at all, I could see a depth guy like Engelland (PIT, 31) or Mark Fayne (NJ, 26). Again, no guarantees any of these guys hit free agency. Perhaps the Wings will try again to trade for someone under contract / RFA? Or perhaps their experience with Quincey will deter them from trying that again... Should be an interesting off season...let's hope it's a long time in coming!

Wings have good role players and need some guys who can put the puck in the net to replace some of the old folks who have hung on too long. Pathetic that Tatar is currently 6th on the team in scoring. There's a few guys I could see the Wings realistically being able to get there hands-on that I think would be upgrades, and could play in the top 6 or as very good third liners: - Kulemin (TOR) - right shooter, former 30 goal scorer, might be worth more than what TOR wants to pay for a guy who has been relegated to a checking role - Setogouchi (WPG) - right shooter, former 30 goal scorer; though he's struggled in SJ, we've seen what this guy was capable of SJ - Moulson (NYI) - this guy reminds me of Homer which makes me think he could compliment Pavel and Z. Probably get lots of attention though and an upgrade over his current $3mil salary. - Downie (PHI) - I actually don't think DET would sign this guy and I'm not sure I want him here, but he'd bring a lot of potential grit with some decent skill, if he could clean up his game - Ott, Steve (BUF) - I have the impression he has cleaned up his game; could be a good character guy; not sure about his value though - Cammalleri (CGY) - very likely he'll be available and he can score. But since he's small and getting older, he may not be the best fit for DET - Penner (ANA) - it's possible, but I'd bet he stays in Anaheim this time I think the Wings could use another defensive D-man with size, so they can allow Quincey to walk. Some potential UFAs include: - Mark Fayne, NJ - Mark Stuart, WPG At the very far end, I'd take a flyer on Mike Komisarek as a 7th D. We always want that cheap, big, right handed shooting defensemen!