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Probably recency. I cited several players that regressed under Blashill and this is just the one we've decided to play in the weeds about.

There's a marked difference between Sheahan + Cholowski, and Svechnikov. Sheahan and Cholowski got tons of chances to play good minutes and on good assignments with this team. Cholowski never got a thing going, and Sheahan did get it going for a while and then regressed badly at an early age. Svechnikov NEVER got nearly the same opportunities from Blash. And that is showing now that he's with the Jets. I'm trying to push some narrative that Svech is an amazing offensive producer. He's depth scoring right now. But I am pushing that Jeff handled him as a prospect atrociously. And I would much rather have Svech as a young depth scorer on this team than I would a washed up vet like Gagner. 60 to 80 to 60 to 40 to 80 is dramatic to me. Do we have a ppg 1C? Or do we have a 60 pt 2C that sometimes only scores 40 or 50 pts? He certainly hasn't been a pillar of consistency that we can lean on like Z and Dats were.

Svech is playing a bottom 6 role on a better team than us. If what you meant to say here is: Gagner is better suited for a PK role than Svech, then I agree with you. He is. But now we're going in circles, because I've already explained to you... We have other players who can play the PK besides Gagner. Gagner is not some must have PK defensive dynamo like Glendening was. He doesn't play center. And he doesn't take faceoffs. He's a warm body veteran winger who happens to be usable on the PK. There's absolutely no reason Svech can play on the Jets 3rd line, but can't play on ours because Gagner exists.

Keywords: right now 2017-18: 63 pt pace 2018-19: 79 pt pace 2019-20: 61 pt pace 2020-21: 43 pt pace 2021-22: 82 pt pace He's production is up and down and all around season by season.

Yeah and I don't even mind letting Zadina keep his PP time, maybe even give him Names PK time too. But let's see what Names can do with more 5v5 icetime and better linemates. Obviously Names is playing well at even strength and we know he's defensively responsible already. Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond Fabbri - Suter - Namestnikov Erne - Veleno - Zadina Stephens - Rasmussen - Gagner PK Unit 1: Rasmussen - Gagner Unit 2: Stephens - Zadina

I think it depends on contract negotiations entirely. If he's willing stay here on a $4x3 great. Much more than that and it's shopping time. I'm really not sweet on anyone besides Bertuzzzi.

I'm back and forth on this. I really do like Fabbri as a player. And I like that Yzerman did some cultural building by bringing in Suter from Guelph as well. But he's also our big trade chip this year and I have my eye on someone like Ondrej Palat to replace him in the offseason. I think at some point you have to stop trading pieces away for the sake of trading them and build a top6 core you like and that meshes. By all accounts and display Fabbri seems to fit in well here... unlike past guys like AA and Mantha... but are we really ready to push forward with this exact group again? I guess what I'm saying is I can be swayed either way on Fabbri. Tossing him or keeping him.

No no words and name calling REPORTED

Are you seriously gatekeeping Wings fandom because I'm critiquing the coach lol? Over the last few pages you've been attempting to impress upon me that Sam Gagner - a PK winger who makes 850K a year - is somehow an essential cog to the team that we absolutely had to re-sign. But the BS is in MY head... It should be painfully obvious to you by now, but I guess it needs to be explained: I do not care at all about losing accounts and starting new ones. This is like account #39 or something for me. Everyone recognizes who I am the moment I start a new one. Maybe you should actually make a sound point about the topic at hand instead of retreating into this cavalier attitude? At least some of the logic seems to be creeping into your head. Babcock was billed as a tough coach with an X/O tacticians skill set. No matter your feelings on Babs, for better or worse that evaluation appears pretty accurate. Blashill was billed as a coach with a skill set in player development - he gud wit kidz - good for a rebuilding team. 6 years later I seriously question that evaluation. Like any coach, he has a list of players that have succeeded developing in his system, and a list of players who consistently underperformed under his guidance. The later list is much much too long for him to be considered a coach whose is skilled in player development. In fact, I may go further and say he is clearly below average in this quality. So then what is Jeff Blashill? A completely average to sub-average coach with no discernible style or strengths? There's no reason to keep this around. Placeholder status should be done at the end of this year... For the sake of this team and the new found success we're having with Raymond and Seider (and for the sake of those specific players). He's one of the longest tenured coaches in the league and there's literally nothing I can point to as a great success he's achieved for this team. I think his most amazing feat is not being fired already....

Vrana - Larkin - Raymond Fabbri - Copp - Bertuzzi Veleno - Suter - Zadina Erne - Stephens - Rasmussen Pearson/Smith Leddy - Seider Edvinsson - Hronek Zadorov - Lindstrom Oesterle Ned Campbell We can start knocking on playoff doors next year with that lineup. The old f***s need to go.

I assume the solution is to bet bigger and chippier? We're not slow. But apparently Jeff cut Givani's nuts off... I won't be pleased if Gagner or Rowney are re-signed for the bottom 6. They bring no identity to the team. Insert kids like Veleno or Pearson there. And/or sign some shop wreckers. Clutterbuck, Roussel, Reaves, Deslauriers, Paquette, Maroon, and Chiasson may all be available this offseason. He's on pace for a massive 13 goals. E L I T E S N I P ER

Yeah I said we should try to sign Campbell out of Toronto this offseason (Michigan guy) to replace Greiss. I was suprised folks wanted to re-sign a soon to be 36 year old Griess. I don't have much interest. Take the opportunity to get younger in the position. Greiss was wildly inconsistent last year, and he's been pretty meh this year. And there you go, Greiss right on time....

Defense: Most offensive zone starts Oesterle Lindstrom Staal Dekeyser Hronek Leddy Seider Stecher Least offensive zone starts Jeff is deploying his worst defenders more often in the Ozone, and his better ones more often in the Dzone. Except Stecher, whom I guess he thinks is very good defensively but so much offensively? But this is maybe just a result of small sample size.

Jeff is mostly using his offensive players offensively. And his defensive players defensively. (except Givani Smith, that dude sux) I would like to see Namestnikov be used more for offense. He's tied for the league lead in even strength goals for petes sake. Larkin is being more heavily favored in the Ozone by Jeff this year as compared to last. Might explain some of the resurgence there.

While I'm looking at fancy stats: Most offensive zone starts Smith <--------- heavily sheltered Larkin Suter Bertuzzi Raymond Erne Zadina <------- Even usage Fabbri Veleno Namestnikov Gagner Rasmussen Stephens Rowney Least offensive zone starts

Nah I just commented on GF% instead of xGF% so my comment didnt make sense and had to edit.

Take a look at xGF/60%. I like /60 a little more as it makes the stat relative to ice time. 1. Raymond 2. Bertuzzi 3. Zadina 4. Suter 5. Larkin Zadina still very good. But Bertuzzi and Raymond are a head over the rest when you break it down for icetime.

Guy can't get any consistency out of his players. Not even Larkin. Who's been the most consistent impact player under his tenure? Bertuzzi? Maybe Fabbri?

I do. We have plenty of PKers with or without Gagner. We have plenty of centers with or without Gagner. Gagner does not fill an essential role on this team. He is a player we can certainly live without. Rowney adds nothing to this team at the moment and fills no roles besides warm body. Certainly a player we can live without. Smith is not the heavy player he was marketed as and fills no roles on the team besides warm body. Certainly a player we can live without. Blash doing a poor job molding him into the heavy player we need to be btw... Svech at least adds depth scoring and can - as he's proven with the Jets - step into a top6 when needed and meaningfully contribute. Just seems like Blash (wrongfully) never gave him a chance. To continue, I would have also much rather added Bobby Ryan to the roster than Gagner or Rowney. Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond Fabbri - Suter - Zadina Svechnikov - Namestnikov - Ryan Erne - Stephens - Rasmussen Smith That is such a better lineup. Blash F'ed up never giving Svech a chance, and Yzerman F'ed up signing too many losers like Gagner and Rowney early on and then had no room for Ryan. The Red Wings have taken 967 faceoffs this season. Gagner has taken 45 of those. Less than 5% of the teams faceoffs. His faceoff abilities are not an asset to this team. Again, you're manufacturing BS here. Unless you wanna change ur tune and hop on the trash the blash wagon for not using this RH faceoff dynamo more in the dot?

We don't need more PKers. We have Ras, Stephens, and Namestnikov permanently there. Suter, Bertuzzi, Erne, and Rowney step in when needed. Veleno and Smith could probably use some reps on the PK too. Both should be cutting their teeth in roles like that. Gagner is not some defensive juggernaut we can't live without. And why is Svechnikov 2nd line or bust? He's playing on the Jets 3rd line. Gee, I wonder why we didn't see anything.... it's almost like Jeff played AHLers over him, and then when he did play him gave him 13th forward minutes. Ya know, the point I'm leveraging Svech to make?

Svech couldn't replace Helm? It's not like we have a need for centers on this team. We just have a need for quality ones. Gagner isn't a quality center. 1. Larkin 2. Suter 3. Rasmussen 4. Veleno 5. Stephens Non-centers who can take draws: 1. Fabbri 2. Namestnikov 3. Erne 4. Gagner 5. Rowney Gagner and Rowney aren't essential here.

Christ. Gagner is NOT a centermen. Hasn't been since 2015. So you're argument is: Even if Blash had afforded Svech the games and icetime he needed last season, and the player had found his footing as he has with the Jets.... there was no room to re-sign him because Gagner, Rowney, and Smith fill other essential roles? Is this correct?

He's playing top minutes in the SHL against grown men. I don't think conditioning or strength is a concern, especially at his size.

Not by my much yet. Veleno just passed him. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST