LeftWinger

I'd hate to leave any of the three D kids exposed, but I think you guys are right because odds are vegas would select Nyquist or Tatar or Helm before they take XO, Sproul or Jensen.

Ya, I remember the whole veto thing well when Fedorov was to possibly come back, but it was said someone vetoed it. I'm still saying it was Babcock. I use the example of how he ran him out of Anaheim. Also going back to watching him snub Fedorov a congrats and handshake at HOF introductions in Toronto, I'm pretty convinced it was him.

Ok, we'll first off, it wasn't even my subject, I commented on someone's list of people responsible for our success, they listed bowman, Jimmy D, Mr i., Yzerman, Holland. My response was that fedorov and Lidstrom deserves just as much credit than Yzerman if they are listing players before Holland. You guys are acting like I brought up the subject that only certain people are responsible for our success. I agree that it's a group effort, hence the reason I argued the Conn Smythe award. I said it can only go to one player, but it doesn't mean that another player wasn't just as deserving. I used ozzie in 08 and Hasek in 02 as examples. But ya, not my subject, so if you guys want to get on someone about the whole who's responsible, go back to their original post and argue with them. My point was, if we're listing people in order and Yzerman is above Holland,then so should Feds and Lidstrom be, because they were both just as important as Yzerman to the Cup wins.

Hello wall? Nevermind.

You can only award the Conn Smythe to one player. Doesn't mean another playing wasn't just as important. 2008, Osgood was hands down the front runners for the trophy, until game 6 when Zetterberg put on a clinic, especially a 5 on 3 penalty kill for the ages. But game 6 by Z or not, they don't win the Cup without Osgood...or, and it makes me puke in my mouth, Franzen. As a matter of fact, in 02 Hasek should have won it over Lidstrom. He also should've gotten the Vezina.

Trouba will be an RFA

IF Trouba is out of the question, I am absolutely in for something like this. Liljegren has been somewhat underwhelming this season, according to reports, and was demoted to the second level league in Sweden.

Right now we're sitting 3rd, can't fall lower than 6. Top 6 latest rankings are Patrick, Hischier, Vivaldi, Rasmussen, Nicas and Liljegren. All centers except Liljegren. Even at #3, I can assume who Holland would take...he loves his Swedish Defense.

He was Western Canada Scout from 85-87, He was Amateur Director From 87-94, Asst. GM from 94 to 97... Players from the team he maybe, MAYBE had something to do with the scouting were: Pushor - Drafted 91 Osgood - Drafted 91 McCarty - Drafted 92 LaPointe - Drafted 91 Dandenault - Drafted 94 I give Haken the European guys, the rest were either signed as FA's, traded for or here in the 80's. MAYBE he was responsible for Kocur out of Saskatoon, but I'm not so sure Saskatchewan is Western Canada...at least geographically it's not, but he may have been a scout there. Barely ANY of them see above... and to your Conn Smythe question, I was simply putting Fedorov and Lidstrom above Holland, stating they were just as important than Yzerman. The post I was replying to had Holland behind Yzerman and no Feds or Lids at all.

How many players was Holland responsible for drafting or acquiring on the 97 and 98 Cups? Why did he trade Vernon after 97? Sure we won in 98, but What could've been in 99 had he kept the Jennings award tandem of him and Ozzie together for a few more years. Three-peat? More? To insinuate that Feds was not important to those Cups along with 2002, then you just weren't watching.

Sure we need scoring, but Holland will just use that pick for another under sized European defenseman, like Liljegren. The kid can't even stay in the SEL he is in their 2nd level now, and Holland will waste the highest pick since Primeau on him. Trade it for a legit nhl defender who can move the puck. Thats what creates offense. I'm keeping Vanek, shopping our 1st, green, Smith, or anyone else not named AA, Mantha or Larkin and I'll keep Z and Nielsen as well.

Can we please have a fire sale now? This team is so bad, I'd rather have all of the prospects from GR up here instead of the vets we have. Holland has made this team a ******* disgrace. He will no doubtedly be haunted by Mr. I's ghost. ...and don't forget that our PP is our enforcer.

6 games...

YIKES! Hell, if that's the standard for not getting suspended, then a $$$ fine should suffice. But then again, that was Uncle Gary's Penguins and we are the hated Red Wings.

No offense, but Holland's only Cup that he pretty much built was 2008. Fedorov had just as much importance to the 3 prior as Yzerman did as did Lidstrom.

Just watch the video...I know, what took me so long? But ya, if that were another team's player against one of our boys, I'd want the max. Moment of anger or not, dirty, dirty play. That was intent and could've been a lot more serious. I wouldn't be surprised at 10+. Imagine if he got his eye? So much for trading him...ugh. Who is next to derail they're trade value?

...and here it is. The subject is the idea of trading our 1st round and Tatar(or Nyquist, or another player) to Winnipeg (who right now has a higher pick than us. They have #4, we #6) for Trouba and a 2nd round pick (#35 ATM.) Giving them 2 picks in the top 6 or better, and us Trouba and 2 picks in the top 6 of the 2nd round. so estenitally: to WPG : 1st round, Gus Nyquist (or another player (giving them TWO top 6 picks and player.)) to DET : Jacob Trouba, 2nd round pick. I think the prospect of having 2 top 6 picks plus an established NHL player would be well worth Trouba (who has said he wasn't happy with his playing situation in WPG and would prefer to be moved, not to mention the expansion draft where they will have to expose a good young D with too many NMC's to have to protect) and a high 2nd rounder. Neither team is making the playoffs, outside of a miracle, so making this deal at the deadline wouldn't hurt either team's eventual position when it coms to the draft. Winnipeg has a better chance of getting #1 overall ATM, it could be quite the possibility that they get #1 and we get #2, they'd have two awesome picks and we'd have our young, established, legit #1 D man PLUS two high 2nd rounders that can help in our youth movement down the road. This is a hockey trade like Holland always talks about, and considering the fact that WPG would have two picks in the top 6 or better (again, outside of a late miracle by either team) that should be enough to where AA, Larkin or Mantha is not even a starting point. so to sum it up, WPG gets: Nyquist, 2 top 6 picks. Possibly #1 and #2 if the lottery falls right. ATM it's #4 and #6. DET gets: Trouba and 2 top 6 picks in the 2nd round. Possibly #32 and #33. ATM the moment it's #35 and #37. This is the only phone call I make as the GM. I'll be fielding calls for Vanek, Green, Smith, etc... but I am on the phone today with WPG trying to get this done at the deadline.

I agree with both of you. We have so many needs. My only concern is, lets say we keep a top 6 pick, draft a center at that spot, do you think he will see 2017-18 NHL action? This is Holland...there has to be a spot for him in order to make the team. Even when Larkin made it, it was only because Datsyuk was hurt. He played well enough to stay, but if Pav were healthy, Larkin would've started in GR and would be seeing spotty time in the NHL... Trouba would be in the NHL from day one. I'm going to copy and paste this response over to the deadline thread, so we don't derail this Draft thread.

I agree, but what do we need more? I think we start with an established top D. He'd easily come in and be #1 here. Neither us nor WPG are going anywhere this season. It just depends on who gets the higher top 6 pick. Make this deal at the deadline. It isnt going to change the outcome if either team this season. Theoretically I guess one of us could go on a run, but it'd be a monumental task. Both teams need a change, I think the potential of 2 1st round picks plus an nhl player would be a huge enticement. WPG can draft 2 young players that will be on the team next season, Detroit would have their #1 defenseman, plus a high third (I still think we could get their 2nd.) Plus, it's not like we're going to be automatic Cup winners next season, we may even miss the playoffs again, so we'd still have a great 1st rounder in a better draft class..PLUS Trouba signed long term. Armchair gm is easy, but if I were Kenny, I'd be on one phone at the deadline and that's to WPG. "Listen, Trouba isn't happy, we want him, we'll give you our 1st round( top 6 pick) and a player." I'm telling you, a top 6 and Nyquist or Tatar or Helm would get us Trouba and their 3rd, more than likely their 2nd. We wouldn't have to even speak of AA, Mantha or Larkin. Especially if it were a 3rd. What if I'm trading Vanek to Chicago or Pittsburgh or Montreal for a 1st? We'd have that or I'd offer both 1sts for Trouba and the 2nd.

I can't say what they'll do for sure, but it is a trade that's not out of the realm of making sense. Maybe, since they'd have such a high pick, it would be a 3rd round pick. But again, WPG is in that expansion draft situation with having to expose a defenseman that would certainly get drafted. IMO this trade works out for both teams, and Trouba, who we all know isn't the happiest in WPG. If we have to add a player so what. If we're giving up a #6 overall, that player won't be AA, Mantha or Larkin. Any other player would be fine. So how about this: Detroit sends 1st rounder, Tomas Tatar to WPG for Trouba and 3rd rounder. Having 2 picks in the top 6, possibly top 5, he'll what if it worked out to be #1 & #2? That's huge to most teams, especially if they're trying to get some value for someone they may lose to Vegas. Plus the kid has been disgruntled to boot. Of course, Holland...so ya.

I'm going to stick to my plan, with a small revision. If the draft were today, the latest odds in the lottery has Winnipeg drafting 4th and us 6th. Which pretty much wipes out my original plan for Trouba, BUT, do you think this would work: to WPG: 1st round pick (6 overall) to DET: Jacob Trouba, 2nd round pick(37 overall) This gives WPG the #4 & #6 picks and us #37 & #39, plus Trouba. If we had to add a player to our 1st, so be it. So in that scenario, I'm going to go with the idea that both Foote and Hague will be gone at 37, I'm am eyeing two other kids though, both right handed centers: Kailer Yamamoto (WHL) Nick Suzuki (OHL) Both are great scorers in their respective leagues and are predicted to go late 1st, early 2nd. We could get a couple of nice pickups with those 2 high 2nd rounders.

The common problem here is Holland. We have been in a downward spiral, barely making the playoffs and getting ousted in the 1st round since 2012. That included years with Babcock. Blashill may not be the best coach, but Babcock was considered it. This is all on Holland, whether or not he contacted Julien is besides the point, he has handed out WAY too many overpaid and too long of contracts that he cannot get rid of, that he won't get rid of. Trading these guys or buying them out shows that he was wrong in giving them the deals in the first place, he'd never admit he was wrong. Would it have been nice to have one of the best coaches in the NHL here? Sure, nobody is denying that, BUT it won't change until Holland is gone and we get a GM that has no loyalty to these bottom dwelling players. Babcock left because he wanted more creative control of his team, in other words, Holland probably wouldn't let him have much input on player personnel. With the right players deleted from this team, maybe Blashill can ice a better lineup and lines. For $9.9M goodness sakes you have players that are no better than 4th liners on a legit playoff team in Abby-Glen-Helm that are making a combined $9.9M starting next season and the next 4-6 years. None of them are anywhere near a top 9 player on a Stanley Cup team. You have 3 D-men that are no better than a #4 making a combined $14M on long contracts. The problem is Holland, but until he is fired or his contract is up and someone else steps in, nothing with change. And by someone, I don't mean Martin, he is too much like Holland.

More than likely, he does only have one more season left, so years at, what, 65% buyout? Not bad.

Damn, top teams firing coaches...What's it going to take for a bottom dweller to fire their coach?

Well I suppose they could always hold over his head(The NTC player) that he will be sent to the minors if he doesn't submit a list of teams, or waive the NTC all together. With the NMC, the player says no, and there is nothing they can do unless they want to buy him out, then he gets a ton of cash up front and becomes a UFA to go where he chooses for even MORE money. PLUS the team is now paying him for twice as long... IF you can afford the hit, fine, but if you are at the cap, that could be a problem. It could happen, like I've said before, players with NTC's and NMC's do get traded, but the NMC has more power over the team.