LeftWinger

Perron would have helped our offense. Now he is going to help the Pens offense and they gave very little. Holland could've beat that offer and should've. Abby and Franzen are not top 6 players and aren't getting it done. Perron would've been an upgrade over both of them in our top 6.

its time for Holland to grow a set. I understand building through the draft, but we already have something like 16 players on our team that we drafted, you have no less than 7 players out of exemptions the next two summers. If he plans on making 0 efforts to compliment these kids with real NHL talent, we are going to have the same roster for the next 6 years and are going to lose kids via waivers. When you see a trade like this that would really only cost you a pick, considering we have a plethora of bottom 6 players to spare, you wonder what the hell is going on...

you just have to figure that the Wings could've beat that easily considering where they will draft. Holland must be good with his team the way it is. There is no doubt that Perron would've made our offense better...of course Babcock would probably play him on the 4th line with Weiss anyhow...

So......a 3rd/4th line player and a low 1st rounder? Does that mean, with our 1st rounder no doubt going to be a higher pick, we could've scored Perron for lets say, our 1st and Andersson? I wonder if Holland had any conversation's about Perron or is he just waiting for 2008 Franzen to show up still....

I am not bashing Abby, by no means. I was just looking at which player(s) would play better together and I figured Abby would play better with Miller and Glenny than Franzen would. Franzen is just the odd talent out. He is not top 6 worthy and doesn't fit in really with our bottom 6. But, a line of Franzen - Weiss - Helm could be pretty even. IF you wanted to put Abby with Franzen and Weiss, I guess that would be good too because Miller - Glenny - Helm would also be a great checking line.

No matter which religion or tradition's you celebrate this time of year, I want to wish everyone here that I have had the pleasure of sharing conversations, arguments, debates and just plain ol' name calling for the last 11+ years all the best this season! I celebrate Christmas, so to all that do, I am going to wish a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! to those of you who don't, I wish you a Happy Holiday Season! I honestly Love you all!

Babcock did the same thing to Modano and Legwand. For some reason he doesn't like to play Holland's main "acquisitions." Is it a head butting, dick measuring thing? Not sure, but he platooned both the former to the 4th line, even though when given top 6 minutes, they produced. Weiss is a legit 2nd line center. He would also be great on the 3rd, between Franzen and Helm. He doesn't deserve to be demoted to the 4th and if I were him, I would start thinking about waiving that clause in Feb. Babcock is going to continue to play him on the 4th and continue with Abby (again, no offense to Justin) on the 1st. Like I said in the GDT, Justin should be on the 4th with Miller and Glenny. Weiss should be at center between Helm and Franzen. Nyquist should be playing with Dats and Z.

Helm is making his trade value rise! Weiss should AT LEAST be 3rd line center.

I agree that Sheahan should not be traded, and he is the sole reason Helm has become tradable. BUT, it was just two or three season's ago that every other GM was asking for Helm in return, the same way they are asking for Sheahan now. Now, Helm's value has declined and we could've gotten a ton more for him before. I am not saying Sheahan is going to decline in value as Helm has, but it may be time for Holland to get full value for a player rather than wait for the next "Sheahan" to come up to make Sheahan the next "Helm" and then all the GM's want the new guy... That being said, I think everyone on here knows I do believe Sheahan to be on a very short "untouchable" list or just right outside the "untouchable" bubble. I do agree someone has to be moved if we are going to try to improve our forwards by the deadline. Weiss, I think, would have a hard time waiving his NMC in order to be traded. IF he spends more and more time on the 4th line maybe he would be more apt to waiving it, but I don't think he would waive it to go to a place like Phoenix, Edmonton or New Jersey... I believe Andersson and Glenny have very little trade value, so we will have them for a long time. Which isn't a bad thing, Glenny seems perfectly happy and is a great 4th line center and Andersson is a great #13/#14 roster player and won't cost too much more than his current salary to retain... Which brings us back to Sheahan being the current (tradable) roster player with the most value. Again, I do not want to see Sheahan traded, but like I mentioned, Holland may have to move him while 29 other GM's are asking about him, before he is no longer coveted.

Why the hell is Weiss on the 4th line? Here we go again Babcock. He has like a point in every game is he played in and he gets demoted to the 4th line? If only one change Franzen on the 4th line and Helm should move to the wing and Weiss should at least be the #3 center... honestly though, I think that this is how it should go and be very effective: Zetterberg - Datsyuk- Nyquist Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco Franzen - Weiss - Helm Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader nothing against Abby, but Nyquist deserves top line minutes (not 3rd) and Weiss is a waste on the 4th. You could flip flop lines 2 and 3 and it would be ok, but no way Weiss should be on the 4th nor Nyquist on the 3rd. Maybe Babcock should go to Toronto...

So who are our roster players with any trade value? Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Helm, Smith, Dekeyser, Mrazek, Jurco. If a team wants a NHL player in return, its going to be one of those guys, then plus a prospect. I would say Pav,Z, Weiss (NMC), Kronwall (NTC), Ericsson (NTC), Howard (NTC) aren't going to be asked to move and Franzen, Andersson, Kindl, Quincey, Lashoff, Miller, Cleary, Abby, Glenny, and Monster have little to NO trade value. So if Holland is serious about upgrading his D corps, then its gonna have to cost one if not two of the players mentioned first. To me, of those 8 guys mentioned Nyquist is going to be the one who would be last to go and of the others I would trade Helm over Sheahan, Jurco over Tatar and Smith over Dekeyser. Mrazek is touchy since we really don't have another goalie who is this close to being NHL ready. I read all the rumors about Sheahan being a piece most teams would want, usually I am dead set against it, but if it brought us that piece that was our absolute need, then I could be ok with it, but not for a rental or for just a RH'd d-man just because he is RH'd....like Petry. I admit, I do not know too much about Yandle, but I am sure it would cost us at least Sheahan and Smith in order to obtain Yandle. If Yandle was going to be the difference maker, then so be it. But I am not looking to gut GR in order to obtain Yandle, and for sure not for a rental like Green. But again, if Yandle is the piece we need, then maybe tossing in Pulk instead of Sheahan...I don't know. I'd be interested to see what a package of Helm, Smith and Pulk could get them. Would Smith and Pulk be enough to get Yandle? I'd hate to acquire Green for that package and then be out next year when he wants top dollar and we could not afford him to stay. Even though Yandle has only one more year on his contract (and he probably would want top dollar to stay after) at least he has a full season to realize how great of an organization this is to play for and maybe it would sway his decision a bit more. I would be fine with this deal: to ARZ - Smith, Pulkkinen, 1st round pick to DET - Yandle, 2nd round pick ...but over the summer we'd have to dump Kindl's salary and maybe Q's if possible because we are going to need a lot of cash to re-sign Nyquist. Jurco and Andersson would need to be re-signed as well as Jensen (who is out of exemptions next summer, another reason to dump Kindl.) Dumping Q for a quick pick would be helpful as well. Kronwall - Yandle Ericsson - Dekeyser Jensen - Ouellet (or Q if he cannot be dumped) Lashoff I would include Marchenko in there instead of XO since he is also RH'd, but it seems that XO has passed Marchenko on the depth chart. I am not sure if Marchenko is slipping or what, maybe he could be included in a package if so. Even though Marchenko stills shows as our top defensive prospect, it is just strange that he never gets the call-up over XO. Backman could always be included in a package if he was going to a team that he was guaranteed to being playing for. Of our top NHL-ready (or nearly) defensemen, I think XO, Sproul and Jensen are the ones we will be seeing in Detroit the soonest. Marchenko still has a year of waiver exemption, so if something isn't done with him, we will looking at Jensen out of exemptions after this year, and ALL of Marchenko, Sproul AND XO out of expemtions at the end of 2016 season...then we will be in trouble. That is why if Holland is going to acquire a non-rental, or a defender with a couple of years left on the contract, it is important that by time the 2016-17 season comes around, he has room to keep XO and Sproul up, because someone WILL claim one of them. So unfortunately for Smith, he may be group in there with guys that need to ne moved in order to protect our upcoming kids. Smith may be very useful in acquiring Yandle, so that is why folks are always including him in scenarios. Right now in the 16-17 season, Kronwall, Ericsson and KIndl are all signed. You have to figure Dekeyser will be re-signed if they keep Smith (and re-sign him this season) and only let Q and Lashoff go, we are looking at this: Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindl, Dekeyser, Smith. (add Jensen to that if he is kept around since he is already at this point out of exemptions.) Now you have Marchenko, Sproul and XO all out of exemptions. That is 9 defensemen for 7 spots. It's going to be a huge logjam. Even if Smith was traded for Yandle and assuming Holland gets Yandle to re-sign, we are still in the same jam with roster spots. So dumpin Kindl,Q and one of the three kids is going to be a necessity in order for any trade to work. Even if there is no trade, there will still be too many players and not enough spots on D. Not unless you dump Kindl before he contract is up. By not re-signing Q and Lashoff, and trading (or waiving Kindl) along with re-signing and keeping Smith around your 2016-2017 defense could look like: Kronwall - Ericsson Dekeyser - Ouellet Smith - Marchenko Sproul - Jensen ...still one too many anyway you slice it.

Ya, that is what I am thinking, we don't really lose much dumping Q for XO, and Helm is just a deal sweetener to help them at C and defensively up front. If we could get Petry and a 2nd for just K and Q I'd be all in too, but take Helm out of the deal and it doesn't look like a very good deal...unless, of course Edmonton gets that desperate. also losing that extar $5M+ in Q and K would go a long way in re-siging Nyquist. Not to mention Petry, Smith, Jurco and Andersson, Jensen AND Pulkkinen...

Everytime I come in here I secretly hope to see a post from Blue Adams...

I don't see why not. Hell, throw Q in there to sweetin the pot up. I always said Helm would automatically become their best defensive forward plus he'd be an upgrade at the center position behind Hopkins. K, Q and Helm for Petry and a 2nd round pick.

Can't use the quote function for some reason 55, but it's Skid Row! A Thanksgiving Day Meal staple...

I hoped and hoped until Hudler was gone, and I will hope and hope and eventually Franzen will be gone! (Cleary, Quincey and Kindl as well!) aw....but then who I ***** about? LOL! I'll find someone!

That would be tremendous! LOL! Here we go! Franzen, Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen and rights to Backman for Hall, Petry.

...but Franzen has a Z in his name.

Franzen is far from a great player...he NEVER wins games single handedly. He looked good early on, looked like he was going to get his normal 40 points, maybe more, but then Francine took over. He needs to just hang em up. Its obvious his head is not in the game anymore and it does hurt this team by him stinking up the ice and taking up a valuable roster spot to where we could be previewing Pulkkinen or maybe Mantha a bit. This guy has not been a threat since 2009 and every team in the NHL knows this and they don't even throw their best guys on him anymore. He is the reason Sheahan and Tatar are slumping a bit, whichever line he plays on, he brings them down to his laziness. He has nothing left in the tank. I hate Cleary, but GD it, I'd rather have Cleary in his roster spot right about now. I know he isn't getting traded, he won't get waived, but Jesus retire already! I don't care what his cap hit will be, the only way he will stop contaminating this team is by retiring...or suffering LTIR and I am not that low enough to wish that on anyone. Franzen is garbage anymore, he was the wrong choice (along with Hudler) that year and the Wings have been paying the price ever since. It doesn't matter now, but Franzen needs to go and go soon. He is not the only reason they are losing, but he is not helping, he is not a threat to score, he makes lazy plays every shift, if your head isn't in the game, leave. Take a page out of the Lidstrom/YZerman book, if you don't have the heart/energy/will to do what it takes to train and compete every night, its time to go.

this mission will self-destruct in 30 seconds....if no goals get scored soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6eWr4XnoXg Ok Red Wings, please watch this video before your next game....thanks. Mr. Babcock, I accept Cash and Checks as payment...you're welcome.

never gonna get that tying goal with Franzen as the extra floater. He hung on to the puck and didn't even throw it at the net... He is hot garbage. Doesn't deserve Emmerton money.

I would like Oshie as well....Mantha? Larkin? Sheahan? Sproul? ....click. Untouchable.

kliq - I know that is not your trade proposal, but OMG! NO!NO!NO!NO! If the "experts" think that is fair trade value, then f*** Taylor Hall! Who the f*** is the author of that article thinking that is fair trade return? Holy s***! I wouldn't trade that package for Shea Weber, let alone Taylor Hall. These hockey writers are delusional! Listen, I know my trade was low, and I did admit that it would never happen, but really? REALLY?!?! We aren't trading for Stampkos here. I am floored! If Holland even gave one inch of a thought to trade those 4 guys, he should be drawn and quartered! Then stoned, caned, whipped and then hanged.

and in the same breath, those of you who don'tthink Helm, Smith and Pulks are anywhere near worth Taylor Hall, are saying Hall is worth Nyquist, Mantha, Dekeyser and a 1st round draft pick... at least Helm, Smith, Pulks is more realistic. You will be surprised if he is traded what Edmonton gets back.