LeftWinger

Is it really that hard to compare Nyquist to Hall? Even last season Nyquist had 1 more goal than Hall, in 20 less games. Hall had more assists because he has more goal scorer's around him than Nyquist does. Thus far this season, Nyquist has 6 more goals and 1 more point than Hall. I would say if Nyquist was a one year wonder, you'd have an argument that he is nowhere as good as Hall, but if Nyquist would have played 75 games last season (as much as Hall) he would have had 63 points to Hall's 80, again due to the more talent around him in EDM. Plus Hall in a bonafide top line player while Nyquist went from line 3 to line 1 back to line 3 day in and day out. Am I saying that right now Nyquist is just as dynamic or a game changer as Hall is....maybe not, but thus far in his short career, Nyquist is proving that he is another later round gem that is hanging tough with high draft picks. and you guys know me, I am a diehard North American supporter. I am defending Nyquist over Hall, not because he is a Red Wing, but because he is keeping pace with a 1st overall draft pick and doesn't show any signs of slowing down.

Another thing Kip, Nyquist is on par to be just as good as Hall this season. He has more goals than Hall this year, more PP goals, and is only a few points behind him. If we are trading value for value/potential, Nyquist for Hall should be a straight up trade. And Edmonton would be getting the deal because Hall makes $6M and Nyquist is still sub $1M, granted he is due a significant raise, but not to $6M.

Kip, I cannot cut and paste for some reason, but go to the "oiler's presser" thread and look at post #130,it has a link to a report talking about Hall being trade bait and they use the term uncoachable. I agree with you, a trade proposal from Detroit like mine will never be accepted by EDM, but you will be surprised if he is traded, it will be for something very similar or less from another team. If Helm is not good enough to be a cornerstone in a trade including another young real good player and a top prospect, then folks around here need to get off the Helm street and stop yapping how great he is and we shouldn't trade him. He is either great or he isn't. Either way, IMO, Sheahan and Glendening are better and have made Helm a very tradable asset. If Helm is one of the best defensive forwards out there, then he could be a cornerstone in a trade to a team that has a plethora of offensive talent, but are in dire need for a shutdown center. If they are wanting to move Hall, why not get something they need. We don't need to trade Helm either, but we lack that 80 point guy right now and we have to trade something of value to us for something we need. Besides, Edmonton has tons of "kids" with offensive talent and potential, why would they trade away Hall just to get another "kid" in Mantha that is in the same group as Hall? They may as well just keep Hall, he is already proven. Makes more sense to trade away an asset they won't miss too much for something that they need to make their team more well-rounded.

Mantha = Untouchable. Period. Sure he is unproven at the NHL level, but he is the real deal. Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen should be enough for a guy who is "uncoachable" in EDM. Helm could be a leader there and would instantly be the best defensive forward. Smith is still young enough to have untapped potential, especially in a larger role, and Pulk is one of our top prospects and has been touted as a future 2nd liner in the NHL. What makes me laugh is, every time someone talks about trading Helm (for example) people here scream, NO, why trade your best penalty killer, the best bottom 6'er in the league, etc...etc... He is so great at his position, he is invaluable. Yet, when his name is tossed around in acquiring something we need, in the same breath they say Helm would not get us anything is trade. Either he is one of the best defensive forwards in the league or he is our scraps. He has huge trade value, and guarantee 29 other teams would love to have him. I understand your love for him, but he is either good or bad. I believe he is good enough to package and get something we need, and with Sheahan and Glendening, Helm is very tradable. We wouldn't really miss him too much. Helm, Smith and Pulk is enough to get Hall. But, like always, EDM will ask for the moon and stars, and then accept lessor value from Florida (for example.) If a draft pick has to be thrown in to sweeten the pot, so be it, but now your are crossing into overpayment, IMO. That being said, Detroit will not be getting Hall for that package or anything near it, because ALL GM's ask for Mantha. The experience and leadership Helm and Smith would bring to EDM along with a top prospect would more then replace Hall and "attitude." EDM would be rid of that, a ton of money, and again they gain leadership and calmness that seems to be lacking in the EDM locker room. Plus, its not like they don't have other stars in the making there already. They would hardly miss Hall especially for a player with "Captain" potential in Helm.

Everyone is going to be surprised what Hall does get traded for...if he does get traded. I know every GM tries to (and sometimes successfully) rape Holland, but come on, Hall is a great player, but he isn't Sindey ******* Crosby. Nyquist + Mantha + Mrazek + more? Some of you are saying Nyquist, Jurco, Dekeyser, Mantha, 1st rounder? Let's be real here. First off, Nyquist is only 4 points behind Hall in scoring, with 6 more goals. He makes $5M less and currently leads the league in PP goals. Mantha's potential is thru the roof right now, so he would be considered a grade A, blue chip prospect. Dekeyser was coveted by ALL 30 teams and would still bring a pretty hefty return if he were to be traded. If Holland traded Nyquist, Mantha, Dekeyser and a 1st rounder for someone, it damn well better be a 100+ point franchise player. Even in my previous posts I admitted that Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen should be enough, but it won't because of the Rape clause when it comes to Holland. But when and if Hall does get traded, people are going to be very angry that he went for less than the talent of Helm, Smith and Pulkkinen. You are right though, Edmonton will most definitely asking for Nyquist and Mantha from Holland. In that case, f*** them.

srj2012 - Yes, that would be a splendid idea. I would offer a package of Helm, Smith and Pulk to EDM for Hall. I touched on in the other thread. I doubt it would happen in this Rape Holland NHL, but really, those three are great building blocks, lots of NHL experience, a Stanley Cup under Helm's belt to boot! If Holland was able to swing that, and Hall proves to be "coachable" here in Detroit, our offense gets instantly better. You then make the deadline deal for Green (if indeed all will take is a draft pick) and the Wings are sitting pretty. Z - Dats - Hall Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar Miller - Glendening - Abby Andy/Cleary Kronwall - Ericsson Green - Dekeyser Quincey - Ouellet Lashoff/Kindl I do think that would be a very good (healthy) playoff roster. (of course there's this thing called a Cap, I neglected to mention...LOL!) They could for sure be able to absorb Hall's salary by dumping Smith's and Helm's, but they'd be a bit shy on being able to absorb Green's $6M at the deadline...they could dump Kindl as a throw-in for Green or extra in the Edmonton deal, but I think it would still be too much salary...Do the Hall deal. GREAT NEWS!!! I was wrong! With Detroit's Deadline Cap Space of $9.1M they would have plenty of room for Hall and Green if they traded Helm, Smith and Kindl. They would actually have $2.8M left in cap space... I say do it! Make the Hall deal now, then acquire Green at the deadline.

I would think in a non-Red Wing Rape NHL, a package of Smith, Helm and Pulkkinen would get Hall here. But if he is uncoachable in Edmonton, put him back in his old junior stomping ground, he just may go off the deep end being around all his old party buddies. Maybe he just wants out of Edmonton and that is why he is uncoachable there...maybe Babcock would be able to handle him...although he couldn't reel in Fedorov in Anaheim... Dallas gave up more for Sequin, but they also got two more players back. We'd only be getting Hall back, so that is why it should take a bit less. They'd get Helm (he'd be closer to home) and Smith, both established NHL players, yet still young enough to be part of a build in Edmonton. Then they get a young top prospect in Pulkkinen. to EDM : Darren Helm, Brendan Smith, Teemu Pulkkinen to DET : Taylor Hall We have plenty of players to replace all three players leaving us. Sheahan, Ouellet, Mantha to be exact.

^ Speaks truth.

why would they tank for McDavid? You know he wouldn't even sniff the NHL in Detroit for at least 3 years. Loyalty. The Goodness for Cleary and Quincey.

If Babs has any sense, the next practice will NOT BE OPTIONAL and will be full blown shootouts ONLY. I don't care if Jimmy pulls a grrrrroin during practice, these guys need to learn to score and he needs to learn how to make a ******* shootout save!!! They should hire a shootout coach... After the full shootout practice, ladder drills until they puke.....tweet! AGAIN!

we still suck at this. I am sick of loser points and giving away these ******* easy points that WILL haunt us come March.... Juck ******* Pott.

if Tats comes out, I will be mad. And jimmy fails again.... ........oh great Z.

Jimmy under pressure....fail... and still Babs no change

ugh....no change...

ugh...oh well...Miller, Glendening, Jurco. That's my order.

well "At least we got 1 point."

Nyqyist should have backhanded that one. He can score that way

Gus "Hands of Helm" Nyquist right there...damn.

is that guys name s***poo? can't score that way Helm...

I am enjoying this game without Franzen! I love it, all players all lines hustling! Go away forever Franzen!

lol, 163rd consecutive sellout, Ken says...hey, if you guys buy tickets and don't feel like going, send them to me! Frickin fickle fans... oh, he is good, that's for sure, but I am not trading Sheahan over Helm. Offensive skills much better and we still have Glenny. IF a trade is needed, Helm is very tradable. I'd rather keep all if them though...

that last penalty kill is a perfect example why Sheahan and Glendening are keepers. I can deal with Helm, but because of those two, Helm could be dangled in a trade and get us a higher return...

so...huge crowd at the Joe tonight. what kind of shot was that Z? I thought Franzen was out? Lol!

this may be funny, but he speaks a lot of truth...