LeftWinger

Well I would be perfectly happy with Holland making the Kesler deal this Friday, then signing Niskanen Wednesday...along with Morris. Sure we'd lose Helm, Smith and our 1st (rumored, may be different) for Kesler, but our kids are here, Niskanen can be top 2 on this team, especially having to give up Smith and Morris will make this D harder to play against. Kesler would top 35 goals playing with Dats and Z, maybe 40. He's make our PP a better unit as well. There are some names for you. subtract Helm, Smith, Kindl and our 1st from this team, add Kesler, Niskanen and Morris and we are already leaps better.

Wings4theCup06....please. The amount of negativity? Not even to July yet? Why don' you go back over the past 6 years of summer threads and see how many times someone came here and said "it's not even July yet..." "...not everyone is signed on July 1st..." "...its not even training camp yet..." "...its not October..." "...it's only December..." "...it's not even the All Star Break..." "...just wait until the deadline..." We are tired of making up excuses for Holland's ineptness to build a winning team. Especially when it is obvious to even NBA fans that the Red Wings need certain pieces to compete again. We are tired of hedging on the team NOT being injured. We are tired of bringing back players just because they are Swedish or Holland owes them a free car wash or Holland promised their wives that they would always have a check coming in...I don get it. Yes, Wings fans have been spoiled for the better part of 25 years, but ever since this became Hollands team and Holland's team only (ie after the last of Scotty's, Bryan Murray's and Jimmy D's team left) it has been downhill, barely grasping to a playoff streak that means a lot, but shouldn't be the goal. We are tired of "just making the playoffs and if we can get to round 2 Z will be 100% and then you never know what will happen." I may be in the minority, but I like being favorites, I like when other teams fans fear us, I like when other cities sell out because of us...Ken Holland has made it to where we are none of that. Datsyuk cannot do it all. Evena healthy Alfie and Cleary cannot help him. Dats needs a high end scoring winger like he had in Hossa. He needs someone that the other team fears just as much as him. Right now we have Z and D and a host of bottom 6er's. Can Nyquist score 30 again? Maybe. But with Franzen and Alfie taking the spots in the top 6, we'll never know. And we'll never know how good Jurco will be while he is buried on the 4th line. We will never know if Datsyuk can get 100 points because of the same old players being re-signed. It's not even July guys, we are 100% healthy, unfortunately even 100% healthy this is NOT a contender. We need a top line scorer, we need a top line defender and our goaltending needs to be 100% better. Re-signed Gustavsson...strike one. Alfie wants to come back...we are waiting for Holland to deliver the pitch....he re-signs him, then strike two. If he does re-sign him, I cannot wait to hear the reason's why. I think we all know what will be said...the same thing he has said for a long, long time.. It's not even July guys...and Ken Holland is still thinks he has a grand plan. He is not fooling anyone anymore. It's not even July guys...I will wait to see what happens and when its the same as every July 1st, we unleash Hell. This July Holland needs to be aggressive, not like years past, in order to prove to me that he wants to win a Cup, not just make the playoffs (barely) and see what happens...not this year, not now... It's not even July yet guys...it's only June, the draft is Friday. I will become a true believer in Holland when he becomes aggressive and makes that bold move...for better or worse, he simply cannot just hope to be healthy...we cannot let the like of Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, Pittsburgh, LA, get better while we sit on our 42 year old hands....we cannot hope to be healthy. It's not even July guys...I agree, but when it's December and nothing is changed...I don't want to have to say WE TOLD YOU SO...AGAIN!

Chicago is not afraid to make changes...why? B O W M A N. Stanley is the GM and Scotty is the advisor....remember when we had Scotty and s*** got done? Kenny is no Scotty and he is proving now that all the success he has is from teams that Scotty built. Teams that Scotty advised to build. Kenny on his own is not a good GM... The Red Wings Nation has been in a downward spiral since 2009 and Kenny, although made a couple of attempts, doesn't know how to make the splash that is needed. Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, LA....just to name a few teams that make deals to make their team better...not just re-sign the same old guys because they are loyal. Loyalty used to get Kings beheaded in England...you have to do what is right for the team...not your buddy.

Exactly DeGraa! I may have ran off on a tangent yesterday, but the point remains, Alfie doesn't make this team any better. He doesn't bring us anything that will help us advance further into the playoffs. Sure last year was injury plagued, but does anyone think that its not going to happen again? Holland s hedging his bets that it won't, because all I hear is stuff like, last year when he was healthy, having a healthy (insert player name) will help the team... We are going to see Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, Franzine, Ericsson, Gustavsson AND Alfredsson ALL go down with injuries...it happens every year and instead of hoping it doesn't and remaining status quo, Holland should be planning on it to happen, and taking measures to combat it. I know you cannot predict injuries and they can (and do) happen to everyone. But when there is a history, why keep going back to that well with the same game plan every single f'ing year? This is where I pile back on Holland. Ok, ok, maybe he isn't BY FAR the worst GM in the NHL, but he used to have a set of balls. As mentioned earlier, he needed something he got it. He actually made trades and signings that had humongous effects. Chelios, Hasek, Robitaille, Hull, Schneider, Rafalski, Hossa, Stuart...but it just seems that ever since he made the wrong choice with Franzen (and yes I do understand at the time why he did it) he has become gun shy to make a big deal. He signed Modano, he got injured. He made the deal for Legwand (which I praised both) and Babcock buried him on the 4th line. He has tried a couple of times to make a deal and got burned, so he just tucks his tail between his legs and keeps signing players that nobody else wants...and this whole, if you come to Detroit, you have to take less money because we're Detroit has to end. A few years ago Wisniewski said he never contacted Detroit because they always try to underpay a player, never pay them market value. At the time I thought it was just sour grapes for some reason, but looking back, its true. He obviously is not the only player with that opinion, this has to be the word around the NHL. Holland low balls everyone. Its true. He got on this "hometown discount" program and the "no one will make more than Lidstrom" program. Well guess what? When Lidstrom is taking hometown discounts, then no one will sign here because they can get fair market value somewhere else. Oh, unless you are old and past your prime and are just looking for a nice contract to finish your career up with. And that is what leads us to Holland....Detroit is no longer a destination for players in their prime, its a destination for players ending their careers... And that, my friends, is what makes Holland past his prime, he has turned Detroit into this because of his lack of balls and his indecisions and wrong decisions... ...signing Alfie would be ok only AFTER he gets that top line scorer, top line defender and better's his goaltending. But he won't. Which became obvious when he re-signed the injury plagued Monster. I know "When Healthy" Monster was doing good....but DAMN IT, Monster is never healthy!!! And Jimmy needs someone to push him or else he just becomes complacent and average. Make that big trade Holland, throw $6M at Niskanen. You got $18M and you are going to overpay Alfie and re-sign Cleary. That does not make the team any better than last season...even "when healthy." We have to add that one to all of Holland's sayings..."Kicked the tires" "we like our team" "it just wasn't a hockey move" "we threw some numbers out there" "we made some calls" "when healthy" To me, this team is getting worse and worse and its Holland's fault. I'd love to be wrong. But more times that not, we are all right. I am honestly ready for Holland to move on...to the golf course.

^ Because that's Holland. He will give Alfie the exact same contract...$5.5M. He will re-sign Cleary and Quincey AND he will trade the #1 for a #2. I am not being funny either. This will happen, we all know it. Expect it and get ready for a worse season than last. Holland is off his rocker if he re-signs Alfie. I'd rather him re-sign Legwand. Holland is quickly becoming the dumbest GM in the NHL. He hasn't done s*** that has made sense since he signed Hossa in 2008. People act like he scouts and is responsible for the draft, he just picks who his scouts say is the best. He is becoming BY FAR the laughing stock of the NHL....

...and it just keeps getting worse. Guess Holland figures the kids will bring them a Cup. Lets just have the same team as last year, but this year there will be no injuries and we'll win it all! If Holland re-signs Alfie without making a trade to make his team better and into contenders, I will run Holland off I-94 next time I see him driving. Holland needs to move to Sweden. Its all about icing the best re, not a mediocre one. Thusvteam isn't a playoff team right now. Re-signing Monster, Alfie and Cleary actually makes it worse. Bring on Quincey for $4.7M...and a NMC.

nice little trade. Two different types of players...glad to see some teams are looking to change in attempt to get better.... Kenny, you watching? Not saying I wanted either of them, but you have to adapt in this NHL. We need to tweak....getter tougher on D.

DannyD you left Weiss off of your 15'-16' roster... I guess if we expect Nyquist to repeat his scoring prowess again, along with maybe Tatar topping 20, we really don't NEED to acquire Kesler for scoring, since he only had one season over 26 goals. But I tend to think, along with a lot of others, that he would be dynamic with The Euro Twins...he was when he played with the Sedins (he scored 41 goals.) But it really would be disappointing to give up what we would have to give up and only get 25 goals out of him... I am all for trying to better the team in every aspect we can (which is why I am so upset over re-signing Monster) but looking at it, I think the focus should be a #1 defenseman....top legit guy. If Nyquist and Tatar will be both topping 25 goals, I'd rather give up he assets for that #1 D. That is IF they CAN both top 25.... Kesler is a perennial 25+ goal scorer, he may have only gotten over 26 one time, but there is no reason to believe he won't again get at least 25 and possibly get into the 30's. That is the reason a trade for Kesler makes a ton of sense. Nyquist and Tatar may never see 15 goals again...its a gamble either way, but I think losing Helm, 1st and a prospect or two, would be worth the gamble...Especially if Kesler gets near 40 again AND Nyquist and Tatar get 25. If Sheahan and Jurco get 25, that's all bonus... Imgagine if we trade Helm, 1st, Andersson, Pulk to Vancouver for Kesler and the goal scoring ends up: Z - 30 D - 30 Kesler - 40 Weiss - 20 Franzen - 20 Tatar - 25 Nyquist - 30 Jurco - 20 Sheahan - 20 That would be a huge improvement...we must stay healthy though... Z - D - Kesler Nyquist - Weiss - Frazine Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar Miller - Glendening - Abby I like that lineup and wouldn't miss Helm, Andersson or the prospect at all. If it would cost us Janmark instead of Andersson, that would be fine too...plus it would leave Andy for the 13th FWD. I still don't know what to do with Ferraro and Callahan though...I, of course trade Kindl on the D...he has got to go. If we trade a couple of top prospects for Kesler, that pretty much takes us out of the running for a top defender via trade...but there is always paying up for a UFA. Let's just say Niskanen... Kronwall - Niskanen Smith - Ericsson Dekeyser - Morris Lashoff

If I can score Kesler with only losing Helm our 1st and a couple of prospects (Pulks, Janmark for example) I am all in. You cannot pass on a prime Kesler....you just cant.

I agree with a lot of you! We have a s*** ton of prospects and they are a high level as well! We have 4-5 kids that are guaranteed rosters spots this season, Sheahan, Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist and Dekeyser...hell along with Glendening. With Dats, Z and Franzine all signed for a while, and Weiss, there isn't much room for the rest of our young kids. Ferraro, Callahan, Pulks, Mantha....the list goes on of very good to great young prospects that can make the club starting this season and beyond if giving a chance...problem is, there is no room. If we look at 6 of our top forwards on the farm. Mantha Pulkkinen Athanasiou Janmark Ferraro Callahan All very capable of making the NHL within the next 2-3 years...no room. So why not make a deal for a piece that you absolutely need? Obviously Ferraro and Callahan aren't going to get us Kesler, but maybe a package including Pulk or Janmark just might? I hear good things about Athanasiou as well, but if it came down to keeping only ONE of those 6 prospects and losing the others in trade packages Mantha is the only one I keep. If Pulks + can get me Kesler, I got to do it... We also have that 1st round pick this year that is not very useful to us, it is far more useful via trade...

I am still liking the idea of Derek Morris for a secondary defenseman... But if I know Holland and his choices, Quincey will be our secondary defenseman...I don't know who we could target for our secondary scoring, but I am sure Holland is thinking Alfie and Cleary...because we all know he considers Franzen our primary scorer... I Will Hate Ken Holland (more) if he re-signs any more of our UFAs!!! He already failed to upgrade our goaltending...f*** him and his Swedish love! I have nothing against Swedish players, especially if they make our team better, but WTF is with Ken Holland and his man-love on ALL Swedish players whether they are good or not? Ken, just because they are Swedish doesn't mean the are the right choice!!! GET THE f*** OVER IT! I am very close to wishing that Holland would take his "Team Model" elsewhere so we can get someone here that actually takes EVEYONE in to consideration...not Swedes first just because!!! Monster sucks and he is TOO injury prone and will miss even MORE games this season... On the other end, he does mention Moulson and Stastny...but I think would cost a ton on July 1st...I like Stastny, but for his secondary scoring, he may break the back.

IMO if the Wings could work out a trade to acquire Kesler and Burrows, there would be NO lack of huslte of finished checks on our team. I know Burrows isn't the player he used to be, but he can still outwork most of the players in the league. I don't know what the price would be, but it wouldn't be too much more than just acquiring Kesler. Burrows wouldn't cost too much...

FWIW, Dave Lewis made the jump from player to Asst. Coach the very next year with Jacques Demers and lasted through Scotty Bowman and was a helluva asst coach througout the Dynasty years. How many plaeyrs are left on the team that played with Lidstrom? 4 maybe 5? That being said, I doubt Lids will be the next asst. coach, but I have no doubt he wouldn't have any problems getting the attention of the defense and PP teams. IMO, when Blashill (for how good he is doing in GR) and Peters were hired, they really didn't do too well as asst. coaches in the NHL. Our PP has been abysmal, our PK isn't in the top 15 of the league and our defense has been WAY off whack! I really don't have any suggestions as to who will come in and turn it all around, but I do like Chelios as a candidate along with Bylsma and Larionov (two I mentioned earlier.)

the sad thing is, all these quality players becoming available and Holland is thinking about re-signing Cleary...horrible.

call it....Helm, Smith, 1st for Joe. Holland then signs Boyle and Seto July 1st.

diving Joe? I am not sure how I'd feel...just for laughs someone put up that .gif with the light sabres...

Larionov anyone? Bylsma? Cleary?

:puke: well, so much for pushing jimmy to be better...get ready for another season of below average jimmy and tons of shootout losses, because neither monster nor jimmy are any good in the shootout. And they are both average to below in general. Typical Holland. Expect a Cleary signing before the draft. Holland is horrendous and needs to be fired. Damn him! Guess he better make that D better because these two guys can't stop s***. Holland has fallen off his wagon. He is by far in the worst 5 GM'S in the league.

So....its done? Tootoo has officially been the second buyout? I am not liking this offseason thus far...Tootoo's contract would have been minimal to the cap, could've bought out Kindl or Franzen, even though I know the Franzen would have never happened. So, now nobody will want Kindl, we will be stuck with him, Franzen will continue to suffer from his head problems and we will re-sign Cleary, Alfie and Monster... Book your tee times...

Helm has become tradeable with the emergence of Sheahan and Glendening... If Helm was needed in a package to acquire that top line scorer or a top tier defender...he would be gone yesterday.

If Florida would take Kindl and lets say AA for Campbell, I say bring it! I think it may cost our 1st rounder though, because that is what Holland does, overpays. He would offer Kindl, AA and our first citing that AA has threatened to go back to Sweden and Kindl has no place on this team, so its basically a 1st for Campbell... Again, I do think Booth and Weiss together would re-ignite some flames and help this team...more-so than re-signing Alfie and Cleary...

I am still ok on signing a Dan Boyle. I am sure Babcock knows tons about him and what he doesn't know, all he has to do is call McLellan and I am sure McLellan is going to give Boyle and HUGE recommendation if Holland and Babcock ask. I can certainly see Boyle in a Wings jersey for the next 2 seasons....that being said, I do agree with Kip, he Holland signs Boyle along with making a couple of impact moves that puts this team in Cup contention, then lets do it. But we all know Holland's MO. He may sign a Boyle, he may trade Kindl for a pick, but he will then retain Cleary and Monster and call it a July 1st and boast on how if the team can stay health, he is happy with what he has. To put it in his terms...."The addition of Boyle will tremendously help our PP and blueline, our returning healthy vets are proven and know our system, we kicked the tires on a few other UFA's and trade options, but in the end, we needed a hockey move and nothing made sense of our team...we like our team going forward."

....adding Campbell and Booth would seriously better our team. As long as there are more additions to bolster the team. By that, I don't mean re-signing Gustavsson or Cleary. I would love another hometown kid on this team and he has already played with Weiss and together they scored a great amount of points. I am reminded of when Philly traded Richards and Carter (who were lights out together) to different teams, not much was heard from them, but when LA reunited them, viola! 2 out of the last 3 Stanley Cups. PLUS they both found some of that scoring magic back. I am not saying that Weiss and Booth are Richards and Carter (although together they had some very impressive numbers in Florida) but a little familiarity goes a long way! Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Nyquist Booth - Weiss - Franzen Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar Helm - Glendening - Abdelkader Miller/Andersson keeping in mind something would have to be done with Ferraro, Callahan and AA if he doesn't bolt for Sweden. I also do not know what it would take to acquire Campbell, maybe not too much considering his age and only 2 years left on that contract is nice too. Obviously Q is gone and Kindl gets traded somewhere for some tape or a puck. Add to the D mix, Derek Morris and we are in business.

I'd rather have Legace back than re-sign "The Groin" Monster....guarantee he does not make it out of pre-season. He will be on IR come game 1 of the season. Bet on it! Speaking of Vegas, I cannot believe the odds right now of Detroit winning the East is 8/1, third behind Boston and Pittsburgh. Wonder what the odds would be if they signed Brodeur over Monster or actually made a trade to acquire Kesler or Spezza...and signed some actual GOOD players instead of useless, washed up verbal agreement, idiotic players...or imagine if they actually bought out Franzen as well!?!? Anyhow, I am NOT on the Monster bandwagon and think that his injuries will hurt this team more than help...plus he couldn't stop a shootout attempt to save his life...so it seemed more times than not.

Hey Kenny....lets give Eaves a go! Monster, Cleary, Eaves...why not? We did so well last year, these guys are another year wiser, plan the parade!