LeftWinger

is this the draft thread or next seasons needs thread? Because no matter who is drafted, he isn't gonna help next season. if we must mention the draft in this thread, then I say trade to pick for someone who will help us next season.

This is not too unexpected...lets add to that a Calder...then a Hart...and then a Conn Smythe... YAY! quick note on Jarnkrok...for those of you who don't think he would have left for Sweden, think again. If Emmerton left for the KHL because he realized he had no place on next years team, what do you think a talent like Jarnkrok would do in the same situation...when he already made mention about going back if he didn't get a promotion soon. He would have left, he knew it, the scouts knew it, Ken Holland knew it. Ken Holland traded him for two reasons, to get something in return (which helped us keep the streak alive) and to give Jarnkrok his opportunity to play in the NHL because he wasn't going to be here until 2015-16...case closed.... BTW...Mantha = utouchable....he is the best thing to have in this organization since...dare I say, since Fedorov arrived. (not saying he is the next Fedorov, but he is definitely the hottest prospect since...

I believe if we are getting help at the forward position, it will come via trade. No UFA out there worth outbidding someone for.

I could see Holland going for Giguere because of his history with Babcock. Babs would have no problem throwing him in if (when) Jimmy takes a(nother) dump. Giggy would have to be ok with getting $2M or less to be a backup to start the season out. Trades....hmmmm....plenty of wishes, but I agree Holland doesn't do too many in lieu of his tendencies to just sign UFA's that are nearing the end of their careers. BUT, I think if there is one trade to be made, Holland just may pull the trigger on a Ryan Kesler deal. Speaking of UFA's, I still would love to see Derek Morris here for 2 season's to take Q's spot. Trade Kindl and let Ouellet take that spot. Kronwall - Smith Dekeyser - Ericsson Morris - Ouellet Marckenko Looks nice to me. (pairings may be different of course)

Are we officially at 15 or are we at 14 because of New Jersey picking 30th due to their contract penalty? I could have swore that we were actually going to pick #13.......

everyone says get better on D and Howard becomes better...heck, even I thought that would be the case as well...but then I realized that the D has nothing to do with shootout goals. We lost so many points due to Howard being inept in the shootout. It better had been a knee or we are in deep doo doo for years to come. Especially if they pass on Miller and then realize Howard blows.

I should have said it this way.... I think both Miller and Hiller would be huge upgrades over Jimmy. I still think they should trade Jimmy and go le gangbusters on one of those two guys. This is my opinion and don't expect many to agree with me...

Miller >>>> Jimmy....do the deal. Hiller >>>> Jimmy....get rid of Jimmy

we need to trade for Kesler and Edler.

neat. I think they got Jimmy Howards movement down pat! He barely moved on any of those goals...so realistic!

No thank you. Besides, in the NHL there is something called interdivisional rape. Then there is Detroit rape. Then there are fair trades. They ask for the moon from a divisional rival, they ask for God's only son from Detroit, they accept 1980's Lake Erie from everyone else...

good. I know he is a good coach, but I grow tired of his lineup decisions. Remember, he only played the kids because he was forced to due to injury. If Cleary hadn't been injured, he damn sure would have been in the lineup. Look how Bertuzzi kept getting in, even though the kids were outplaying him. bring in Larionov.

the name of the thread can also be read as " What do we HAVE to trade?" Like, what do we have to trade in order to have enough roster spots for the players we have and aren't sending down and the players we need. I think we HAVE to trade Andersson and Kindl at least. They aren't going to get us anything but a low draft pick or future considerations, but they have to go to make room. Ferraro, Callahan and Almqvist also need to be dealt with or dealt. I am not sure any of them clear waivers if they don't make the club. We need upgrade's at Forward, D and G. Pretty much all around. The kids aren't going anywhere, so that means that 4-5 roster spots are taken. Jurco, Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Dekeyser will all be here next season and beyond. So the upgrade is going to have to come via trade, there aren't any UFA's out there that really are going to make this team overnight contenders... I hear what you are all saying about Moulson and Vanek, but I the money they are going to get is going to be too high for what all we need to accomplish. I am a fan of Stastny, but he already makes a ton and will get more. I think the trade route is the way to go. I think Kesler will be pursued. Pricey though. I still the the best upgrade we could ask for is Kesler and Edler via the trade market. Goalie is a hair pulling dilemma. I agree that Howard is 99% here to stay (at least until Mrazek shows he is ready to take over.) But it would be nice to have the option to pursue Halak, Hiller or Miller. I also agree that is Howard couldn't get us out of the 2nd with Lids, Rafi and Stu, he is not going to get us out of the 1st on his own any time soon. There are no Lids, Rafi's or Stu's out there to sign, and even upgrading to Edler and Niskanen isn't going to allow Howard to make his mistakes and still let us advance. I am a firm believer we need an upgrade in that position, but if we are stuck with him, we need to upgrade the #2 guy with a player who is going to really push Howard to be better, if that is possible. I would take Vokoun, Naby or Bryz as a backup. Also Brian Elliot has become expendable in St. Louis, that is if Miller re-signs there. UFA's - You all got to go. The only one I would like to see back is Legwand, but with the logjam up front and the need to upgrade the scoring, there just isn't room. If Weiss comes back 100% and returns to form, he should be just as effective centering Franzen and Nyquist as Legwand was. I would still welcome Legwand back though. Who knows, if a trade goes down, there just may be some room for him afterall. The rest, you all need to go. Sammy, Bert, Cleary, Alfie, Quincey and Monster....thanks, but enjoy the rest of your lives.

I agree with the Howard stuff too. He will be better with better defense in front of him. We also need consistent scoring as well. The best trade scenario I seen on these threads was the one that involved Helm and Kesler. I like that deal and I think Vancouver, and their needs would do it as well. I still would like to see the asking price for Kesler and Edler. If you can acquire those two, our score and our D become instantly better. You have to ditch Kindl though, he is no longer an NHL defenseman. Get a low pick for him, more than likely future considerations... IMO our tradable guys are: Franzen, Helm, Smith, Almqvist, Ferraro, Callahan, Andersson, Kindl, Abdelkader, Miller and Ericsson. Howard if you can secure a better goalie, or if Mrazek was in a better position to take over. Weiss if he submits some teams in in modified NTC. Am I saying trade them all? No, but we need upgrades up front and on D. Folks and or picks have to go in order to get better.

^^^^ I have been saying for a while now, we have to "convince" Howard to waive his NTC and throw the wallet at Miller. There are ways around a NTC. Just let Jimmy know that the team plans to move in a different direction and that they'd like a list of teams he would go play for. If he doesn't submit a list, bench him. Sure he is still getting paid, but he won't start a single game. This kind if stuff happens behind closed doors all the time. If he wants to play, he will submit a list. They don't have to be obvious about it, or even rude. They already told him they were going in a different direction and would like to find him a team to where he will be playing. You sign Miller and Jimmy sits. If you don't want to spend the money, you put your eggs in Vokoun or Nabby and Jimmy sits. It looks like he lost his job. Best case scenario, jimmy waives his NTC and we get miller. This would have to be pre planned though...if you trade jimmy and don't get miller...whoops.

you had me until you said Franzen put up elite numbers...

we need to make up for this mistake. Dump Franzen ASAP.

lest we forget Franzen often leads the team in GWG...you know the games that he scores the 6th goal to go up 6-1 and then when they barely hang on to a 6-5 win. Clutch....clutch I tell you. So glad Franzen in a Wing and we had Hudler for a bit....they are so much better than Hossa. Heck, may as well buyout Zetterberg instead of Franzen, Franzen is the second coming of Fedorov, don't you all remember he had a 5 goal game one time.

Hey Euro, please tell me where I was pissed we lost Quincey....please. I truly have no clue as to what you are talking about.

...like I said BOTH long term would've been good at the time. Even then I preferred Hossa over Franzen. When Holland didn't sign both and chose Franzen, I was pissed. Nobody can say that's not the truth. I hated the choice from day one. No back peddling on that fact. Holland couldn't pay Hossa because he was holding money aside for Hudler. Whom I had also a hatred for, something else nobody can argue against. Signing both at the time was the ideal situation, even though Franzen would've still turned into what he is now. I didn't hate him back then, but ALWAYS was in Hossa's court when it came to choosing one over the other. That's all. Facts are facts. I am just glad Franzen s*** the bed again so I can continue to say how much he sucks and sucks and sucks. Thanks guys for refueling the fire! Buying out Tootoo instead of Franzen will be the worst decision Holland will make, Franzen will be hurt again next season and continue to play like garbage.

Son of a Wing, I never said that signing BOTH Hossa and Franzen would have been a bad idea (if they could have fit it under the cap) that meant NOT losing Hossa, but when Holland low-balled Hossa in order to keep Franzen and offer Hudler a contract, we ended up with "The Choice" which I hated from day 1. Having the 2009 Franzen AND Hossa would have been great back then. Then when Franzen went into his decline, we still would have had Hossa and the useless Franzen would have been (and still been) an after thought. If you read the quotes you found from me they ALL say Hossa AND Franzen, none of them say Ya! Franzen! Yippee! Sign Franzen only! PLUS ALL of them say BYE BYE Hudler! So no, I am not trying to convince myself. I would have been fine with BOTH, but when the money wasn't there, the obvious choice was Hossa, but Holland chose the lessor talent and that is when I really became critical of Franzen. He was chosen over Hossa to be our sniper...our 40 goal scorer. I said it back then AFTER Hossa left that Franzen will never be our sniper and is never did become it. Buppy - The offer for Hudler was there, Holland offered the then RFA somewhere around $3M-ish, and Hudler declined and opted for Russia, then the arbitrator ruled that Hudler would get $2.9M-ish IIRC. Look it up and get the facts instead of just attacking somebody. Just Google it. "Holland offers RFA Hudler contract" its right there. My cut and paste isn't working or I would paste the link and the quote, but Holland offered Hudler a 5 year $15M contract...so, no I am not just making things up. If Holland had said see ya to Hudler, then he could have possibly added that $3M to a better offer for Hossa... ...so, in the end, after he lowballed Hossa, he paid Franzen $3.9M and was offering Hudler $3M...do the math, that's $6.9M together. MORE than enough to keep Hossa, he is making what, $5.2M in Chicago? He is still in the playoffs and has 2 Cups since he left...and we had Hudler and we have Franzen...pardon me if I'm just a bit upset. And pardon me if I don't have a little "I told you so" coming our right now. I am glad most people are FINALLY turning on him now...just like they turned on Hudler. I don't care how, but Franzen needs to be gone. If not buyout then trade. Will it happen? 99% not, but I will hope and hope until it does or until he retires...either way, one day he will be gone...and more than likely in more of a disgraceful manner than he is in now.

now that you mention it, it isn't hindsight for me. I hated it from day one, day two and today. I cursed both Hudler and Franzen up and down, left and right. I am not saying the numbers didn't make sense at the time to the brass, I am simply defending the position I have had since the day he signed. I am not trying to convince anyone that Franzen sucks,I have known that for years. I am just defending my position that I have always had. Holland chose Franzen and Hudler over paying Hossa more money. I knew it would be a mistake, never waivered from my position and now, it seems my position was correct. Holland should haven given Hossa the money and let Franzen and Hudler battle over what was left if the cap.

Hossa was offered a contract with the thought that Holland was also going to pay Hudler $3.75M. So that is why Hossa didn't accept Hollands lowball offer to him. So Franzeb's $3.9M and the $3.75M he had set aside for Hudler was more than enough to keep Hossa here. Which as we seen with Hudler and now with Franzen, we would have been better off with Hossa.

we all agree Franzen needs to go. We all know he won't be bought out or anything. Holland is gonna go to his death never admitting the mistake of re-signing him. Its too bad, because even on the 3rd line he is taking up a roster spot that someone better should be in. I am still holding out hope for a trade, but that's all it is. Hope...

aw, no quotes? Ain't that the Juck ******* Pott!