LeftWinger

lest we forget Franzen often leads the team in GWG...you know the games that he scores the 6th goal to go up 6-1 and then when they barely hang on to a 6-5 win. Clutch....clutch I tell you. So glad Franzen in a Wing and we had Hudler for a bit....they are so much better than Hossa. Heck, may as well buyout Zetterberg instead of Franzen, Franzen is the second coming of Fedorov, don't you all remember he had a 5 goal game one time.

Hey Euro, please tell me where I was pissed we lost Quincey....please. I truly have no clue as to what you are talking about.

...like I said BOTH long term would've been good at the time. Even then I preferred Hossa over Franzen. When Holland didn't sign both and chose Franzen, I was pissed. Nobody can say that's not the truth. I hated the choice from day one. No back peddling on that fact. Holland couldn't pay Hossa because he was holding money aside for Hudler. Whom I had also a hatred for, something else nobody can argue against. Signing both at the time was the ideal situation, even though Franzen would've still turned into what he is now. I didn't hate him back then, but ALWAYS was in Hossa's court when it came to choosing one over the other. That's all. Facts are facts. I am just glad Franzen s*** the bed again so I can continue to say how much he sucks and sucks and sucks. Thanks guys for refueling the fire! Buying out Tootoo instead of Franzen will be the worst decision Holland will make, Franzen will be hurt again next season and continue to play like garbage.

Son of a Wing, I never said that signing BOTH Hossa and Franzen would have been a bad idea (if they could have fit it under the cap) that meant NOT losing Hossa, but when Holland low-balled Hossa in order to keep Franzen and offer Hudler a contract, we ended up with "The Choice" which I hated from day 1. Having the 2009 Franzen AND Hossa would have been great back then. Then when Franzen went into his decline, we still would have had Hossa and the useless Franzen would have been (and still been) an after thought. If you read the quotes you found from me they ALL say Hossa AND Franzen, none of them say Ya! Franzen! Yippee! Sign Franzen only! PLUS ALL of them say BYE BYE Hudler! So no, I am not trying to convince myself. I would have been fine with BOTH, but when the money wasn't there, the obvious choice was Hossa, but Holland chose the lessor talent and that is when I really became critical of Franzen. He was chosen over Hossa to be our sniper...our 40 goal scorer. I said it back then AFTER Hossa left that Franzen will never be our sniper and is never did become it. Buppy - The offer for Hudler was there, Holland offered the then RFA somewhere around $3M-ish, and Hudler declined and opted for Russia, then the arbitrator ruled that Hudler would get $2.9M-ish IIRC. Look it up and get the facts instead of just attacking somebody. Just Google it. "Holland offers RFA Hudler contract" its right there. My cut and paste isn't working or I would paste the link and the quote, but Holland offered Hudler a 5 year $15M contract...so, no I am not just making things up. If Holland had said see ya to Hudler, then he could have possibly added that $3M to a better offer for Hossa... ...so, in the end, after he lowballed Hossa, he paid Franzen $3.9M and was offering Hudler $3M...do the math, that's $6.9M together. MORE than enough to keep Hossa, he is making what, $5.2M in Chicago? He is still in the playoffs and has 2 Cups since he left...and we had Hudler and we have Franzen...pardon me if I'm just a bit upset. And pardon me if I don't have a little "I told you so" coming our right now. I am glad most people are FINALLY turning on him now...just like they turned on Hudler. I don't care how, but Franzen needs to be gone. If not buyout then trade. Will it happen? 99% not, but I will hope and hope until it does or until he retires...either way, one day he will be gone...and more than likely in more of a disgraceful manner than he is in now.

now that you mention it, it isn't hindsight for me. I hated it from day one, day two and today. I cursed both Hudler and Franzen up and down, left and right. I am not saying the numbers didn't make sense at the time to the brass, I am simply defending the position I have had since the day he signed. I am not trying to convince anyone that Franzen sucks,I have known that for years. I am just defending my position that I have always had. Holland chose Franzen and Hudler over paying Hossa more money. I knew it would be a mistake, never waivered from my position and now, it seems my position was correct. Holland should haven given Hossa the money and let Franzen and Hudler battle over what was left if the cap.

Hossa was offered a contract with the thought that Holland was also going to pay Hudler $3.75M. So that is why Hossa didn't accept Hollands lowball offer to him. So Franzeb's $3.9M and the $3.75M he had set aside for Hudler was more than enough to keep Hossa here. Which as we seen with Hudler and now with Franzen, we would have been better off with Hossa.

we all agree Franzen needs to go. We all know he won't be bought out or anything. Holland is gonna go to his death never admitting the mistake of re-signing him. Its too bad, because even on the 3rd line he is taking up a roster spot that someone better should be in. I am still holding out hope for a trade, but that's all it is. Hope...

aw, no quotes? Ain't that the Juck ******* Pott!

With what Franzen brings to this team, he isn't worth Emmerton's salary...seriously. I don't care about his 5 goals a week every third month. Until Franzen is gone, this team will never get above a wild card spot and never win another Cup. Franzen after "The Choice" 0 Cups... Hossa after "The Choice" 2 Cups and still in the playoffs... Every since Hossa left and we got stuck with The Wings have three 2nd round losses and two 1st round losses...haven't had a 40 goal scorer since. Franzen has averaged 0.375 PPG in the playoffs since 2010, only 0.5 since the 08 Cup. Hossa? 0.75 PPG. PLUS the 2 Cups... It is what it is, but Holland has to know that Franzen is done...he has to. He has to look at him float around 5 months out of the season and just curse up and down! I picture him doing the "Darn darn darn darn" dance of Herman Munster....Mule my ass, more like Llama or Emu...or Sloth. Oh, and the report that Hossa was offered a contract before Franzen, that may be, but it was well less than what Chicago gave him because Holland was offering Hudler $3.5M at the same time. Hudler and Franzen don't equal a fart from Hossa and look what we were stuck with and still are!!!

Buyout Franzen you jackass Holland! Use a ordinary buyout on Tootoo if you must, but GD it all to hell! BUYOUT FRANZEN! You are stuck in the mud with him on your team!

this was actually in the Holland Quote thread. I understand buying out Tootoo and letting him try to get a NHL contract, but this team will be skating in mud with Franzen on it. He brings the entire team down 37 notches...just say goodbye to

I never bought the concussion theory either for Howard, but I did see him being sick...a bit of yellow fever.

Holland overpays in trade yet tries to under pay the UFA's out there... I think he has it backwards. That being said, I would also take Kesler for Helm, Smith and 1st. But as I mentioned in the other thread, what about throwing Edler in? What would have to be added to make that blockbuster? I personally would throw Franzen in along with Almqvist.

I don't think PIT will be able to afford him. Like I said before, they only have 7 forwards, 5 d and 2 G signed for next season only a projected $15M cap space. Would they throw $5M+ of that to Matt and only have $9M-$10M to sign 5-6 more forwards and another D? Those would be some cheap signings for sure!

I know I a beating the Morris drum, but he finished with the same amount of points as Petry and played in nearly 20 less games and he is a UFA that may be looking for a change of scenery and out of Phoenix....er I mean Arizona. Petry would be an RFA and cost us draft picks to sign him. He is younger yes, but Morris is more of the lines we need for a couple of years. If Petry were to sign here, it would just make the log jam that much worse in 2-3 years and we may lose out on a prospect or two to waivers, with Morris, he signs a 2 year deal and goes away afterward. We have enough hot, young prospects coming up, we need that Vet presence right now to bridge the gap.

I like Niskanen too, but he is currently on a team that has a better shot at winning a Cup than Detroit does. He is a UFA and there is a chance he may leave for a bigger pay day (especially with his 46 points this season) unless he chooses the infamous discount to stay. I would offer him Kronwall money, but I think he may get upwards of $5M on the market. Funny thing about PIT, they only have 7 forwards, 5 defensemen and 2 goalies signed next season and they are only projected to have $15M in cap space...wow! This is their make or break year for sure! I still like the idea of a Derek Morris coming in to be that vet D-man. He is 35, RIGHT handed, averages about 20 minutes a game, and is a stay at home guy. He has lost some offensive prowess of course, but he could be a great 3rd pairing guy. Willie Mitchell also intrigues me, but again, he is on a team that has better chances to win than Detroit, same can be said of Boyle. I think the only way these guys don't re-sign with their teams (Niskanen included) is if the team hasn't the cap space or want to change things up. Which COULD be the case for Morris and Boyle, Phoenix for obvious reasons to change and in San Jose once again falls short of at least the Cup finals, Boyle could be asked to move on, in not so many words. I think Holland is going to do something outside of the obvious this time around and take us all for a loop! He just make that draft day deal that he is always talking about doing. It's no secret that Alex Edler would like to be a Red Wing and Holland would love him here. I can imagine the blockbuster return to Vancouver if we acquired Edler and Kesler...yikes! Could you imagine our team then? Who would you be willing to give up? The players that I feel are tradable at this time (doesn't mean they will get traded) are as follows: Johan Franzen, Darren Helm, Brendan Smith, Jakub Kindl, Brian Lashoff, Justin Abdelkader, Joakim Andersson, Adam Almqvist, Landon Ferraro, Mitchell Callahan and also Jimmy Howard. Throw in our 1st round pick and what would it take to get Kesler and Edler here? Then sign a Morris or Niskanen or Boyle. Of course if Howard were traded, that would mean you are betting you can lure Miller here, and that is no guarantee, so may as well stay with Howard, improve our D and get him a better, more healthy backup. I would trade Franzen, Helm, Smith, Almqvist and our 1st for Kesler, Edler, Booth and their 2nd today. Not unless Weiss would waive his NTC to go to Vancouver, then I would swap him for Helm and leave Booth and maybe take another pick, if not Burrows.

I also fully believe that Mantha will get a SERIOUS look this September and 90% chance of making the team...

you are all leaving out Almqvist, Callahan and Ferraro, who are ALL out of exemptions. Glendening is also now out of exemptions by 1 game. Trades ARE going to have to be made, so maybe there is a scenario that we make a nice deal at the draft for something we really need...

this would be awesome! Especially if Holland was able to scoop him back up!

I don't care if we lose Babcock or not, and I also wouldn't want to resign Legwand for $5M, but there is no way he will be our #4 center anyhow. Whatever, I just think since we gave up a ton (in comparison to others on Trade Day) that Legwand should at least be in the immediate future plans for a couple of seasons...but again, not at $5M. I do not like that they say that hey are going to build the D from within...I do like our kids, but I just think we need a vet or two to bridge the gap while the kids gain experience. BUT, I do feel that Marchenko, Sproul and Ouellet are going good solid players and am excited to see their progress. If they aren't going to bolster their D with better NHL players, then they damn well better convince Howard to waive his NTC because he proved this season that he cannot make the save when needed and needs a BETTER defense in front of him, not a greener one... Damn Holland, you are going to have $20M available and you want to fill you roster full of rookies? Why save the cap Kenny, so you can acquire that player at the deadline? Give us all a break!

if he isn't going to buy out Franzen, trade him. Package him K, Andy and the 1st for something useful...

Holland is going to die by his choice to keep Franzen over Hossa. He refuses to admit to that mistake. Pisses me off to not see Legwand in the plans, but Alfie is? f*** Holland and his man love on soft ass Swedish players! Franzen and Alfie were both useless when it mattered. Positive to see the old farts and Monster and Q won't be back. Have to trade K and Andersson if you ask me. Why buyout Tootoo? What a waste of a buyout... Holland looking like an idiot again.

I remember when Brendan Smith was our #1 prospect...and Johnathan Ericsson. Sure glad we didn't trade neither if those guys for something we desperately needed...they'd be tearing up the league somewhere else instead of tearing up the league here....oh....nevermind.

I cannot describe how much I love this!

I am telling you, Morris and Mitchell in place of Q and K and your D is tons better. 2 years each to bridge the gap while Sproul, Ouellet and Marchenko mature and learn the Detroit system. Trade K, AA and Lashoff... Kronwall - Smith Ericsson - Morris DeKeyser - Mitchell lights out.