LeftWinger

the centers you'll have next season even with Z and D on the same line are Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Andersson, Sheahan, Glendening, Legwand. I do believe Legwand will resign with Detroit. Something has to change and someone (or two) has to go.

regarding the D, you are absolutely correct. Three guys I would like to see targeted via UFA are Mitchell, Klesla and Morris. I know Robidas and Orpik and Niskanen are also UFA's but the teams they are on are very much favorites to win a Cup this season. I cannot see a reason keeping Orpik AND Niskanen from both re-signing in PIT along with taking a discount to do so. If Detroit were to subtract Quincey, Kindl then add Morris and Mitchell. I am not looking for points from these guys, that is what Kronwall and to a lessor extent Smith is there for. But right now, those two have to try to focus on being a defensive type and they're offense is non existent...especially Kronwall. If you add to it, TWO defensive type guys, then Kronner and Smith can play their game. Another one that I would consider trading is Ericsson. Kronwall - Morris Ericsson - Mitchell Dekeyser - Smith

I would like to put out there the question, Do you think Chicago would deal us Hossa back? Even with the cap increase going to $71M (maybe lower) they only have $5M available cap space next season. If Holland packaged our 1st round pick (which could be a top 10) with some players, do you think a deal could be made? What would you add to that #1 pick that make sense?

Ok, Hossa's performance last night just proves that "The Choice" was wrong...fine, I knew it. BUT there is nothing to do about that now, except get someone to make up for it. Franzen, for all he does in spurts and spots, is not what Ken Holland thought he would be, so not only does Holland need to get a #1/#2 defenseman, he needs to throw top dollar out there to a big time scorer and game breaker. I don't know if one is available, but even with Dats and Z in the lineup, we lack that pure scorer that can take over a situation on a dime. I love that Mantha is tearing up the Q, but even if he made the club next season that is a lot to put on a rookie. Looking at the UFA's for the summer, that Hossa-type just isn't out there. We will probably have a top 12 if not top 10 draft pick, and that would do wonders in a trade package to help acquire one, but who? Anyhow, not to derail this thread I will save those comments for the other thread concerning next season's needs. I will comment here and saying how disappointed I am in last night's performance. Did I expect a win? Not really, but I did expect some compete. I didn't expect more overplaying pucks by Howard, I didn't expect to be embarrassed so much, I didn't expect to yet again give up a back breaking goal in the last 20 seconds of the period...or wait, did I? It's a sad day for me to watch this team struggle and not even compete anymore. Injuries are a huge problem yes, but the D and the G are bigger issues that NEED to be addressed...along with finding that shooter.

ya, like Kronwall, Franzen, Ericsson, Howard... lol, Hossa with another point...glad to see Franzen is a Red Wing.

Benedict Arnold? Holland blew his cap on Franzen and Hudler...

Hossa, 2 pts. Franzen? Nice trip there Quincey, too bad you tripped the wrong Smith...nice 1st round pick.

Yes yes and more yes. I have mentioned him before and also think he would really help out our team. You are going to have to pay him though. No more of the Lore of the Red Wings, plus these defenders know we are in need for them. of course, we could already have him if they would've just drafted him instead of Kindl...

...which is one more thing than Bertuzzi provides...

I found it on YouTube, but cannot figure my phone out to cut and paste. They also bump heads at the end of it as well to acknowledge each other. Man I miss scraps like that. figured it out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gRdCZ9_LQM

its time to sail this ship into the shore....because yes Bob Probert has done something similar. Not a high five and a hug, but in one of his and McSorley's long drawn out fights, there was a mutual pat on the head after the linesman finally got in between the two...so, yes it has happened before...

wow, harsh crowd today... I don't think $2M to $3M will affect most, if any, teams when it comes to this off season, but IMO I like that the cap may be a bit lower from expected next year. These salaries are once again, getting WAY out of control and the "market value" of marginal players is really hurting this league... In NO world is Kyle Quincey worth $3.75M let alone what he is going to get on the UFA market this summer. I know when it comes to the superstars, its a touchy subject because the likes of Datsyuk, Stamkos, Crosby are hugely responsible for the owners making the money they make, so they do deserve to be well compensated in return. The whole cap issue is touchy, but in today's NHL there are too many marginal players making WAY too much money and it's the fault of the GM's, who, complained about the salaries to begin with and wanted a cap. edit: as for a source, I also haven't found anything on the web, but I do remember the last Wings telecast on FSD, Ken Daniels did make mention the cap may not go up as much as once thought...

well the OP just wanted to debate on what we thought it would take to acquire him. We all agree it will take too much. In my silly little scenario, I broke down what I could do without in order to add Weber. I know that it wasn't reality and Nashville would ask for the world, but I did give up a ton of important cogs in the Red Wings machine, and that is what I would be willing to give up to get him. It surely would cost more, and I am not prepared to give up what it take in reality. But in the spirit of this thread, being asked what I would give up for Weber, that is what I would be ready to give up...a lot. Obviously it would cost more, so I guess I wouldn't be acquiring Weber because in my opinion, he is good, but not better than the combined worth of the players and picks I offered...some of these GM's need to be put in check. I sure wish they would bring back the arbitrator to the NHL to review all trade offers and penalize GM's for fleecing one team and accepting less from another...

I know guys...I know.

TWO 1st round draft picks(both of which will be top 12 (1 of them top 5) considering we aren't making the playoffs,) Darren Helm, Brendan Smith alone is a very valuable package. Throwing the other three in for padding. If Nashville wouldn't take that, then Poile is crazy...the problem is, Holland is stupid, so he would never offer it. I would put Ericsson in there instead of Smith if needed. (and that would be my preference.) to NSH: #12 overall and a #5 overall pick in 2014, Helm, Ericsson, Kindl, Ferraro, Almqvist Nashville would be put in an asylum if they wouldn't accept that...

Well I don't see why not, but hey, if that many assets and experienced players wouldn't do it, then so be it. I'd rather go for a couple vets via UFA like: Morris, Mitchell, Orpik, Zidlicky or Niskanen. I still trade Jimmy, but I know he won't be and that is too bad. That is why we really need to shore up the D in order to keep Jimmy from himself. Trade Almqvist & Kindl for a pick or two, sign (random) Morris & Zidlicky. Kronwall - Zidlicky Dekeyser - Morris Smith - Marchenko Lashoff

first of all, I wouldn't want Weber for his physicality...sure he is more physical than all of our D, but that is not why I would trade for him. I would trade for him to be the closest thing to Lidstrom we could get. An offensive threat with a blazing shot and a top tier defensive defenseman. What would it cost to acquire him...well if you think Poile fleeced Holland at the deadline, then you know he would ask for the moon AND stars for Weber. It would be justified though. This is why I say we trade Jimmy for a 1st round pick, be it from Edmonton, Winnipeg, Islanders, Florida... With the way Snow has been giving stuff away, we could probably get a 1st and a 2nd for Jimmy. Offer Ryan Miller the stars and all the planets and his own Little Caesar's franchise to come "home." Ok so follow me here: to NYI: Jimmy Howard (waive his NTC) to DET: 2014 1st to NSH: TWO 2014 1st round picks, Darren Helm, Brendan Smith, Jakub Kindl, Adam Almqvist, Landon Ferraro (would rather trade Ericsson than Smith, but I am already pushing Holland's limits) to DET: Shea Weber, retain some salary Sign as UFA: Ryan Miller, Jaromir Jagr. re-sign David Legwand (UFA) Tatar (RFA) Sheahan (RFA) Glendening (RFA) Callahan (RFA) DeKeyser (RFA) Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Jagr Franzen - Legwand - Nyquist Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar Miller - Weiss - Abdelkader (Andersson, Callahan) Weber - Kronwall DeKeyser - Ericsson Ouellet - Marchenko Lashoff Miller Mrazek

this debate is part of the reason I, and many others, wished that Holland would have extended an offer to Wiz a few years back. I mean a REAL offer. Sure he is not an enforcer, but he is a Marty Lapointe type who does stick up for his teammates and does drop the gloves when he needs to. Remember when Big E used to drop the gloves to defend his teammates? Then he got his ass kicked a few times and now is a Big P instead of a Big E. Dude, it's going to happen, even Probie got rocked a few times in his career, doesn't mean you stop sticking up for your teammates or defending yourself. Same can be said of Abby. Hell even Kindl threw down a few times in Kitchener...

Yes, Mr. Powerplay....for the longest time the term "Our powerplay is our enforcer" has been kicked around as the reason we don't need a real enforcer. I do believe it was actually one of Ken Holland's quote's. Well Mr. Holland, unless you can get Mr. Powerplay to come back, you are going to have teams running around taking liberties and possibly injuring your players...

so, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't they sign Tootoo for that reason? Then we can look at the fault of this to lay right on the heads of Babcock and Holland. I am not one to say we need a straight up enforcer, we all know that those type of players are obsolete to the game, but I am saying that Tootoo can't be any worse offensively than Bertuzzi has been and yet Tootoo always brought energy and excitement to the game everytime he was on the ice. I am also going to point out that every Cup the Wings have won recently has had a Tootoo type player on the team. Maybe not throughout the playoffs, but at least throughout the year to protect our stars and allow them to last the entire season and be healthy for the playoffs. I can imagine that Lidstrom and Yzerman and Fedorov were able to be as good as they were because of the likes of Probert, Kocur, Lapointe, Downey, McCarty et al... I think Tootoo should be recalled, especially now with Legwand here, and let him prove he is worth NOT buying out over the summer. We need a protector and unfortunately Mr. Power Play hasn't re-signed with the Wings the last 5 or 6 summers and I don't think he is going to take a home-town discount this summer either...

...as far as I am concerned, Alfie hang em up this summer. Thanks Alfie, but we won't be needing you next year. We should give Legwand the chance to re-sign, but ALL other UFA's can skate away. Concentrate on #1 D and #1 goaltender. Jimmy must go. convince Jimmy to waive is NTC to go to Buffalo, near his home and trade him for their 1st round pick. Then take our two top 14 picks and package them up with some players to get our #1 defenseman. Who that is or who is available, I dunno, but a couple of prospects, two roster players and two 1st round picks is a lot to dangle out there.

Holland has let this team get worse and worse since 2009. He made the choice, that's fine, but has done very little or been very stupid in trying to rebuild this team. He has this off season to make it right, if he says and does all the exact same things he has been doing over the years, then f*** him! start by trading Jimmy and then throwing the top allowed dollar amount at Ryan Miller. This team will never win with Jimmy.

Even the 7-4 win showed how bad the D is and the goaltending. You cannot give up 4 goals a game a expect to win. They scored 8 goals the last three games, but gave up 11. I see my Franzine came back to play. Knew he couldn't sustain it, but he isn't the only one. who said it? I hope Dats a Z enjoyed their Olympic experience. Euro's will never put the NHL ahead of the Olympics.

Should get rid of Jimmy over the summer. boy, did Suter really screw us! Verbal agreement and then "the boss" said Minny. ***** whipped mother f*****...

If you aren't convinced that Detroit needs a #1 defenseman AND better goaltending next season, then you ain't watching...