LeftWinger

That would be impossible because not all GM's out there deemed it necessary to sign an average NHL player to a lifetime contract. If he had gotten a 5 year deal, we'd be paying him $6M or more a season, is he worth that? The only reason his contract is valuable for his production is because of its length, 8 years from now, do you think he will still be scoring 30 goals? No. Then how valuable will that contract look? Most players you want me to not list are on 4-5 year deals and since they are outplaying Franzen, will get a raise of course. Franzen at $3.9M a season on a 5 year contract would have been awesome for his production (he would be 4 years into it already.) But to be stuck with this long ass that he may not even finish, is a waste.

Not that I want to get back on the Hossa subject, but if had played full seasons since he has been there, the 29 goal campaign would have been his lowest total. in 2010 he would have had 34 goals in 82 games, 2011 it would have been 31, 2012 was his 29 goals and if 2013 would have been a full season he would have been on pace for 34 again. Franzen would have been 30, 30, 30 and 28. Similar numbers, so your point in value is taken and correct. It just seems that Franzen is on the decline while Hossa, for lack of anything else, remains just as good as he has ever been. Either way, I certainly hope for change this summer, we need hard working, hitting, not afraid to go into the corner type guys now. The soft skilled players on this team have their days numbered...

1st round - Mantha 2nd round - McCarron 3rd round - Fasching that would be a super duper draft! I am crossing my fingers!

But that doesn't change the fact that we need change on this team, and no, not change just for the sake of change, but we need to change the makeup of this team to compete in the East. For all of Franzen's size, he plays like 150lb. player. I will be surprised if Franzen scores even 25 goals next season playing in the East. There isn't too much available UFA this season, change must come via trade, and right now Franzen holds very high trade value. (if not for the length of his contract.) I think Horcoff would fit in on this team great. He may not replace Franzen's scoring, but he will out work him day in and day out...but I agree with you, Franzen is an overpayment, Horcoff is a bottom 6 guy.

One thing I do agree with the guys though, you aren't gonna get a 50 goal scorer for $3.9M (most years) Franzen just failed to turn into the player Holland chose to sign for life.. His production dropped when it counts and now he is a shadow of Playoff Franzen. If that. I would love nothing more than for Playoff Franzen to return, but it's been three season's since he has been here...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times, its time for you to go!

Now that is realistic! Thank you.

That is just it. Sure 28 goals is good for $3.9M, but there are plenty of guys out there who make less, who earn it more. Franzen is just a mush melon who refuses to even follow up his rebounds, he shoots the puck and before it hits the net he his turning the other way. He doesn't fight in the corners, he get pushed around in front of the net, he is the poorest replacement for Holmstrom that ANY team could come up with. He led the team in the playoffs in +/-....in the minus column! He may not be garbage, but he is declining rapidly and has shown that when it counts, he doesn't elevate his game...

Right, that is what I said. You said it would be stupid to do so. I would trade him for Horcroff, I think he is a harder worker and earns his paycheck. A slappy is someone who refuses to see the bad in something no matter how obvious it is, which is what most Franzen fans do. I will refrain from saying it anymore. Nah, he is just my whipping boy. I like Franzen in the bottom 6...although our current bottom 6 probably outworks him too...so I just wish him gone.

That goes back to someone saying that Dupuis - Crosby = average player. I simply said it that is the case, then Franzen - Dats/Z = AHL player because Dats and Z made Franzen what he became in 08 and 09. Without those two Playoff Franzen would have never existed. That is about as close to a guarantee as you can get...

I do hate Franzen, which is why I want him traded. That is how all this started. Kip said something to the effect that it would be stupid to trade the guy who leads our team in goals every year. I then pointed out that he may do that, but is a no show in the playoffs. Much like when the debate about Hossa and Franzen was hot. The argument was, Hossa scores in the regular season and is a playoff no show, but Franzen is a playoff beast. So now that Franzen has turned into a playoff no show, people refuse to talk bad about him, the same way they talked bad about Hossa. I just called a slappy out is all. I have no issue never comparing Franzen and Hossa again, I said that already when the 2nd round started. The ONLY reason his name was mentioned was because of the playoff no show comparison... So the bottom line is, Franzen has become what nobody wanted Hossa here for, a playoff no show, but for some reason, Franzen gets a pass...That is fine. I cannot convince people who like him otherwise, just like they cannot convince me... I sure would rather have Dupuis, Burrows, Voracek, or Chris Stewart over Franzen. All of which are in Franzen range of money...and earn it. If Franzen scored 29 goals a season and kept that consistency up in the playoffs, I could give him a pass. But ever since he signed his contract, he has become useless when it counts.

Go ahead and show me where I brought up the Choice....I even said that I would not discuss it, and would never bring it up again if Franzen outscored Hossa or we beat Chicago... So black and white stats are a gross exaggeration...ok. Its obvious, your man love is too large to ever see Franzen for what he is...like I said, just keep on waiting for him to show up when it counts. Meanwhile I will just keep on bashing him when he fails the team again...I don't even have to ever bring up Hossa again to see how bad Franzen is...plenty of players out there who make Franzen money who are better... This has Eva loves Hudler all over it....

Sheesh, that way too many changes! Honestly though, do you think Kenny will stay with the same roster (mins Fil) and sit on $9M? Gosh, I hope not....in our new Division, we'd get blasted...If he was not going to make any changes and keep $9M, he may as well give Fil his $5M...

but you said high end realistic cap numbers....there is nothing realistic about Nyquist getting $3M....high end realistic for Nyquist is $2M. None of those numbers are realistic high end or not... High end none of them top $2M, Brunner MIGHT get $3M.... not very realistic, but you didn't have to take your ball and go home...geez, man up.

I said without Z and Dats, Franzen would be in the AHL or over in Sweden...so you think that without those two playoff Franzen even exists? If you do, then I feel sorry for you. My point is, people bash Hossa because he fails to show up when needed in the playoffs...but now that Franzen does the same thing, it's no big deal because he still leads the team in goals every year....You cannot have it both ways. Call a spade a spade...Franzen mails it in when it counts. He is becoming a consistent playoff no-show, the evidence is there. I haven't pined for Hossa for a bit, as a matter of fact, in the Hossa thread I said that he would not be the answer we need to right our offensive woes. I haven't brought up the debate in a while, but felt I needed to when you brought up the fact that Franzen leads the team in the regular season every year, so that makes him great. Yet, when I pointed out that he has become a no show in the playoffs that didn't change your opinion, yet Hossa is not as good because of his playoff no show. Which BTW, Hossa has more points this playoff than Franzen has the last 3...in 10 less games...Just maybe, maybe, Hossa is becoming a playoff beast... Just keep waiting for Playoff Franzen to show up, we'll leave the lights on for you...meanwhile enjoy the 25-29 goals he gives you in the regular season. I know Franzen will be here and accept that, besides it gives me someone to blame for our loses and to bash when he gets 6 points or less in the playoffs...

I don't know where people get the notion that these "kids" are going to top $2M, I realistically do not see any of them (sans Brunner) getting more than $1.5M each...that is a huge raise for all of them from their sub-million dollar contracts they were just on... With the raises you gave Nyquist, Smith, Brunner & Kindl, it's no wonder your cap is worse than expected...

DUH! That is my point, when we debate "The Choice" the fact that Hossa is a playoff no-show is always brought up as the reason it was better to keep Franzen...but now with Franzen being a playoff no show, that isn't even mentioned because he scores 28 goals in a season... Either way, Hossa scores 40 and is a playoff no show, he sucks....Franzen score 28 and is a playoff no show, he is the best player on out team! Am I understanding correctly? Which takes me right back to what I said earlier.... Franzen Slappies... Besides, Hossa has 14 points this playoff alone, he has 20 the last three seasons....before you try to be cool, get your facts right.

I have only called him that this year...I do objectively look at him. You and the other Franzen supporters are just hanging onto a thread that playoff Franzen will return...he hasn't. I don't care what he does in the regular season, he has become a playoff no-show...That is what the argument always is when we debate Hossa or Franzen...the last 27 playoff games (3 seasons) 10 points...he's done. Signed his "serious contract" and decided to start mailing it in when it counts... Just nevermind, you will never win and neither will I. Love him or hate, I am probably stuck watching him for the next 8 years...unless he suffers an injury (which he normally does during the season) that will make him retire early.... 28 goals is average in the NHL. I don't see why he is touted as so great and can't even top 30 goals, let alone sniff 50's underpants...he is a 3rd/4th liner, if not for Dats and Z he is an AHL'r probably already back playing in Sweden... edit: BTW, Datsyuk had more goals than him this season...

I would also think that is Holland had a target that would potentially cost him more than Datsyuk or Zetterberg per year, he would probably be up front with the both of them with his intentions and I am sure if they felt that they were informed of this, they wouldn't have any issues with it, especially if it betters the team.... besides, last off season Holland offered Suter a contract that would have been more than Dats or Z's anyhow, so its not like they have to be the highest paid, but I have a feeling Holland informed them that he was going after Suter with a contract that would pay him that much. Again, if they felt part of the process and I think they would have no issues with making less than someone on the team...

Yes to this! ^ Buy out Bert and Sammy, let Fil and Cleary walk....

...and still only 6 points in the playoffs...in 14 games AND a team low -7... I don't what I am thinking....

Ok...Franzen slappies will be just that. Keep on wanting him here. Every year I give him plenty of chances to win me over, every year he fails. This year more than others... that pathetic poof shot at the goal against Chicago defines his status in my book.... You will always love him, I will never. If he never played here again, I would be the happiest Wings fan in the world.

That may be, but I do remember Kovi being out with them as well, maybe on the PP, because that is what I pictured in my head when I typed that in the first place...

One day you will realize that Franzen is declining rapidly and is pretty much useless in between the 5 game stretches he decides to play....

Whoops, I thought maybe they played together over in Russia prior to the NHL...I guess other than the Olympics and some other International play, they haven't really played too much more together. I do remember watching the last Olympics with a line of Kovalchuk - Datsyuk - Malkin. That was pretty amazing to watch, but I guess I was off base a bit there...

That would be a nice thread subject too....What would you give up for Kovalchuk? You mentioned the impending retirement of Broduer, they could bite at Mrazek too... (not straight up of course...) edit: in all honesty, they do need some cap relief...they only have 6 forwards and 6 defensemen signed with $26M in Capspace....$26M sounds like a lot, but it could disappear quickly when you have to sign 8 forwards and a D...that is an average $2.8M per player, and it todays market, that is a lot of average to below average players or tons of prospects!