LeftWinger

Just watched the highlights on NHL.com but they didn't show the penalty. If someone has it, please post so I can check it out...

Crosby dive? No! Haven't watched the play, but if the guy held him and Crosby embellished, should have called both...but then again, its the NHL and it was Crosby.

Touchy subject.....sure he let in a few bad goals, but so do most if not all goalies...if we had a viable back up plan, sure I wouldn't mind seeing a change to see it would change some momentum, but mostly for that reason, not because Jimmy is bad. It happened in 08, Hasek had a couple of bad outings and Osgood came in a played Conn Smythe hockey...I don't think Monster is Osgood. So making a change for the sake of making a change would not work this time. Gustavsson just isn't that good to come in and change the momentum...but who am I to evaluate talent? I think two goals last night were goals that Howard could have had, but it happens. Great goalie bounce back and we will see what he brings tomorrow. I certainly hope he bounces back, because as mentioned above, Gustavsson is not the goalie to come in and stop the bleeding...fortunately, Howard played good most the game and only had a couple of snafu's. Does he need to be benched? No, but he does need to steal a game or two starting tomorrow...oh, and the Wings need to score some goals, so a soft goal against doesn't hurt so bad...

Well you can surely rule out a Detroit and Toronto deal for Phaneuf considering they will in the same division next season...but I like your thinking! Problem is, there just isn't that #1 guy available out there right now. Not anyone that a team is ready to trade at least... also, regarding changing this team. This may be the last straw out in Vancouver if they get eliminated in the 1st round. This off season would be the ideal time to convince them to take on Franzen's contract and trade him for Burrows. I maintain that this is a win win trade for both teams. Vancouver needs chance, Detroit needs change. Vancouver needs cap relief, Detroit has cap room. Franzen has chemistry with the Sedins and Burrows would fit in on Datsyuks wing and possibly help convince him to stay a bit longer with the numbers he would put up. I know Franzen turned it on a bit the last week of the season, but its just time for a change and if you are going to get anyone of significance, you have to trade someone. I think the attraction of Franzen playing with the Sedins is enough to interest Vancouver...especially as they yet again have a horrific playoff fail... Then I still think trading Filppula's rights is a smart move, because if he wants $5M, he hasn't earned it here and we need to get something in return for him. I would be willing to trade him to Dallas for Cole and have a scoring winger here. I know, Cole was booed out of Montreal, but in that town, if you don't play like Guy LaFleur or if you aren't French Canadian, you are not welcome. Heck, Toronto booed Larry Murphy out of town and look how he turned out for us...I think Erik Cole would return to his 30 goal form if playing on one of our top two lines. I want to stop at turning this into a trade/line thread, but I just wanted to add to your post on changing this team.

Pavel was 23 when he came to Detroit....Nyquist is 23. Zetterberg was 22 when he came to Detroit...Tatar is 22. Noone knew Pavel was going to be a star like no everyone knew Crosby would be. But after his first season and the magic he made on the ice, the gig was up...Star.... Pavel at 23 > Nyquist at 23....Zetterberg at 22 > Tatar at 22....

Did Pronger get suspended for that hit? I know the intial penalty was called on Rob Neidermayer, not Pronger...I am having a brain fart and just cannot recall if Pronger got suspensed... Still very similar series, eh? I hope it works out in our favor... kinda of subject, but it does have to do with winning the series. The draft order is set by when you get elimated from the playoffs right? Even though I am begging for Minny to lose to Chicago and Detroit to beat Anaheim, I will absolutely puke if Minny gets the higher draft pick and scoops up a player that I really wanted Detroit to get, (Mantha, Rychel, Santini, Pulock....) That would just drive me nuts, that they got Suter over us (although hindsight it was for the better in the long run) and then they draft Mantha right ahead of us! ARGH!!!!!!!! So draft-wise, I guess it wouldn't be so bad to get eliminated before Minny, but DANG I want to Minny to fail so hard just because of the sideshow last July....

Last nights game stunk of 2003 all over again...Goalie cannot score goals. Sure, goals 3 and 4 were goals that Howard could have had, maybe should have, but those things happen, to every goalie. Fact is, if Wings score on a PP or two, the game goes a whole different direction... Like 2003 I am no more blaming this lose on Howard as I didn't blame Cujo for the sweep. Team has to score goals, so when your goalie gives up a bad goal or two (and it will happen, right Roy? ) it doesn't hurt as bad...Ob La Di Ob La Da....Wings gotta score to win. I am glad we made the playoffs, but Holland needs to desperately address this come June and July...the Wings need scoring and a LEGIT #1 defender. I love our young D core, but they need that #1 D that can get the puck to the net and score himself...Kronwall is not it. Ericsson is not it. Who do we get? Dunno, but Yandle could fit the bill in a big way... If the Wings had a D-Man who could actually get the puck through to the net on a consistent basis, they would score more goals...and avoid games like last night.

IMHO, the only hit to the head that should EVER be deemed targeting is an elbow to the head. 99% of the time if you lead with your elbow and nail the guy in the side of the head, it was on purpose. Anytime a shoulder is thrown into and towards the body and it just so happens that the head was hit, that should not be a penalty, just an unfortunate accident as a result of a hard, fast Hockey play...99% of the time when the shoulder leads the hit and the head is hit, it is not on purpose and the head was not targeted. If you are leading with your shoulder you intend to hit the player with a body check, if you lead with your elbow, you are looking to injure the player... That is just my opinion when trying to read the intent of a play...

We can debate this all day and that is what makes this forum so awesome. I just hope that Shanahan sees it the way most of us do as no jumping into the player and no principle contact to the head. It all happens so fast that anyone could form either opinion and could point out tons of reasons to justify it. But I still have to go with the ref closest to the play. Abby stopped skating before the hit, left his feet WITH the hit, principle point of contact was shoulder then momentum into the head. The ref watched the entire play from start to finish. He deemed no penalty at all, but the ref 200 feet away said a 5:00 charge and a game misconduct. I could see if the guy right there said 2:00 for charging, but he said 0:00. I just hope he expresses his opinion to Shanahan when asked about it. I believe there should be no suspension, but would not be surprised at all, if the NHL does suspend him and then of course Lydman will be in game 4.

We just see two different things...point of contact was shoulder. Left his feet with the hit, not before, which means he didn't leap into him. You have your opinion, and I respect it, but I disagree with it. Plus your circled a foot off the ice, where the other foot? On the ice...no jump.

I totally agree with the politics. The NHL needs more players like Jakub Vorachek. When Kronwall destroyed him, after the game he said that he got hit clean and should have had his head up. Most of the Flyers agreed with him. Was the hit devastating? Yes. Did the result look like Vorachek was seriously injured, yes. But, its a hockey hit. Vorachek said it was a good hit, there was no penalty and so suspension. As a matter of fact this hit was worse than Abby's...still no penalty, no suspension and Vorachek being a stand up guy, admitted it was more his own fault and didn't whine a cry to the media and complain about a headache and try to get someone suspended....what is the popular term nowadays? You Stay Classy "Anaheim" Well it's time to stay classy NHL. No suspension OR fine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qZUaR9GnU

I do not know what angles you are watching....Abby left his feet with the hit, elbow hit the shoulder first, then head. Not a penalty. Not a charge. BTW, Kronwall's hit in Chicago was deemed a penalty because it was said Havlat didn't play the puck and the ensuing hit resulted in injury. Yet every replay shows Havlat play the puck with his foot and even the hit wasn't illegal. Another blown call from the refs as proven by the fact that Kronwall suffered no further discipline for the hit.

You guys need to watch the entire replay and not just a clip. There was no "charging" Abby was gliding into the hit, the principle point of contact was elbow to shoulder and the momentum of the hit followed thru to the head... again, head was not principle point of contact. Abby left his feet with the hit, much like Kronwall did 100% of the time (when he used to hit) and 95% of his hits are deemed clean. For those of you who think there wasn't a call on the ice, watch the video, when the camera follows the play down the ice, the ref in the Ducks zone, WAY in the ducks zone, has his arm up with the call. The guy 2 feet away watched the entire play transpire and watched Lydman fall to the ice and never had ANY intent of calling a penalty, because it was not a penalty, was not a charge, was not a principle hit to the head where the head is targeted... I said it in the GDT, if this hit gets a suspension the there is something seriously wrong with the NHL. He already served enough unwarranted penalty time. 5:00 and a game is suspension enough for a completely LEGAL hit and blown call by the ref 200 feet away. Also like I said, if you are looking for a play that has more intent on injuring someone you have to look at the Souray hit on Abby in game two and even Perry's careless use of his skate in game one. Those two plays there were way more severe when it comes to careless hits and intent to injury than Abby's hit last night... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpBIFsbcy6Q

You are absolutely correct. Pav was already undressing opposing players as a rookie, as evidence by this clip where he undresses Adam Foote... ...He was doing things like this and was a big reason why Boyd the Void had 9 goals and 25 points that year, which in todays NHL would net him a $5M contract! Also most if not all NHL analysts and "experts" talk a lot about how Henrik Zetterberg was the only NON-NHL player to be on Team Sweden's roster for the Olympics and how he fit right in with the rest of the NHL players. Also, Zetterberg was runner up to the Calder trophy with 44 points his rookie season. I know the comparison's are for those two and Stevie and Sergei, but folks are also calling Tatar and Nyquist the next Hank and Pav... Those two may be the next eventual leaders of this team, but in the same respect that Hank and Pav were nowhere near the next Steve and Sergei, neither Tatar or Nyquist are the talent Hank and Pav were when they came into the NHL...no disrespect to any of the players...3 sets of players, 3 different NHL era's.... You knew Steve was a star in his rookie season....you knew Sergei was a star in his rookie season...you knew Pav was a star, and you knew Hank was a star...next year should be the official rookie season for both Nyquist and Tatar, we will see. Another thing to consider, none of Yzerman, Fedorov, Zetterberg or Datsyuk spent ANY time in the AHL before the started in the NHL. They were stars when they arrived here. I know the organization was different when Steve and Sergei were brought here, but Holland was in charge when Pav and Z were brought here and they didn't spend one minute in the AHL. Nyquist and Tatar are talented and seem like they will be great players one day, but the super star quality that Hank and Pav had just isn't there with Nyquist and Tatar...

Find the other angle of the hit, principle point of contact was shoulder then into the head with momentum...he glided into the body, left his feet when he hit him....it was not a charge, it was not a hit to the head on the principle point of contact. If it were the ref standing right there would have called the penalty. He seen the hit up close, he wasn't looking the other way he was looking right at it and watched the guy fall to the ice... I know folks are trying to not sound like homers, but you aren't if you are defending the hit...it was not a penalty when the ref looked right at it and deemed it wasn't, it should not be suspension worthy...if it is, then something is terribly wrong with the NHL. The hit that Souray put on Abby in game 2, cross check from behind, head into the boards was far FAR worse than Abby's hit and he only got a two minute penalty...if you were looking to find a hit that deserved 5:00 of penalty time, that would the one over the Abby hit...as a matter of fact Perry's careless use f his skate against Howards head was a worse disregard for another player than a clean open ice hit... I am not defending the hit and saying that is why they lost. Hit or not, penalty or not, the Wings didn't show up to play and that is why they lost...and two goals that Howard NEEDED to make, but that crap happens too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpBIFsbcy6Q Even these announcers say "It looks like his elbow rolls off his shoulder and then into the head..." Exactly what the ref standing right there saw... Don't know how the REF 200 feet away sees it better than the ref right there to make a call. No Penalty. Period. Not now, not ever...

1. Abby hit WAS NOT a penalty, not now, not then, not in 1935. The Ref was standing two feet from the hit, watching the play with his own two eyes. The Duck had the puck, Ref's attention was not elsewhere. He watched the guy fall to the ice. He saw it was shoulder on shoulder hit, he saw that Abby was gliding and not "charging" towards him....bulls*** call from a ref 200 feet away and it will be bulls*** if he should get suspended.... B. Yes, Howard got us to the playoffs, Yes, Howard is a top 10 goalie in this league, Yes, he deserves the contract (I don't like the length) he got...BUT he totally s*** the bed on the 3rd and 4th goals...that being said, even the Elite of all Elite goalies give up a bad goal or two in a game once in awhile...(Game 7 2002, Patty Boy Roy.) 3. With that being said, you still have to score goals to win. So what you got a bad call against you (they only scored once.) So what a ROOKIE made a mistake and cost the shorthanded goal...So what. You don't lay down and let them roll over you. You had over 5 mins in PP time in the first, including a 5 on 3...Stop pussyfooting the passing and shoot the puck and you may score some goals. You killed off their 5 on 3, most of the 5 min major and was matching their physical play. This reminds me of 2007. One PP goal in game 6, ONE, and the Wings win that series... D. There is no D....just win. This team is good enough to beat the Ducks, but not playing like they did yesterday. You have to score goals to win. Just ask Curtis Joseph...

While I understand the point you are making when it comes to players leading this team, but with all due respect, Hank and Pav are far from the next Sergei and Steve....If they were, we'd have more than 1 Stanley Cup in the last 10 years...but again, I undertand the point you are trying make....

if the Wings retain Filppula at his demands, there wont be much room to add that scoring winger and RH top line defender...trade Val at the draft for Erik Cole...

So this pretty much solidifies that White will NOT be re-signed next season and Coliaicovo more than likely will be one of the buyouts (if used.) Our D is going to be green for awhile, but why not give them all a chance to grow together, eh? Kronwall needs to step it up BIG TIM....

Oh, Hmmmm..... Phil Housley, Gary Suter, Erik Cole, Ryan Malone, Rostislav Klesa, Patrick Sharp, Tim Jackman, Tom Gilbert, Matt Greene, Keith Ballard, Joe Pavelski, Drew Miller, David Backes, Matt Carle, Tomas Vanek, Alex Goligoski, Jared Boll, Abdelkader, Paul Stastny, TJ Oshie, Jeff Petry, Trevor Lewis, Kyle Okposo, Craig Smith, Jared Tinordi....just to name a few legit NHLr's....and I left out a lot other that are playing in the NHL right now as well....but these are some of the big names... I know you said ALL his development years, but it has already been established that the USHL is a stepping to stone to most likely a NCAA career before the NHL...but some of those I listed also moved to the CHL as well before the NHL...

The Wings are going to have a nice pick in the teens unless the Hockey Gods shine on us and lift us through the playoffs to the Cup.... I like Mantha in the 1st and McCarron in the 2nd....

If he is going to be an enforcer, then he is going to have to lose the visor...unless he is wearing it for an injury temporarily. The NHL will be all over him for starting a fight with a visor on and that equals extra penalties.... Didn't know that McCarron committed to WMU...Hot Damn! If the Wings are fortunate enough to snag this guy in the 2nd round, that would be two HUGE prospects to have in the wings! (Pun intended)

...fixed! Hell for the past month all I heard was how bad Colorado wants to #1 pick to get Seth Jones because of his dad Popeye being a local hero in the Denver area...wow, what a coincidence! They got the #1 pick... Uncle Gary needs to being just a bit more stealthy.... http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=422036 This stinks just as much as Pittsburgh drawing Sid after Sid lived with Mario for a while....NHL is so see thru.

Who is throwing the towel in? Just pointing out the glaring reasons they lost tonight...I agree Kronwall looked bad at times too. I think he tries too much for the redirect of rebound off the boards when he attempts a shot, he needs to just blast it at the net...Q and K were awful, no ifs and or buts about it...Everyone who didn't play on the top line played with 20% energy...it was painfully obvious. Goal #2 was soft for Jimmy's standards, but despite all this, it came down to a one goal game basically...lack of offense and dumb, momentum killing penalties... Hell if is wasn't for a 5 on 3, we'd had been shutout...

I imagine because he was developed in the USA?