LeftWinger

didn't get a chance to get on here and comment during the game. I was close to coming on here after the first and commenting on how Franzine had some jump and looked like he was giving 100% so far, but my son was playing his Skylanders Universe game and couldn't get on here, anyhow, of course then he scored his goal and went on to play a great game by his standards. Now, that is the type of game that makes him Franzen and not Franzine. My only question is, is this his one game that he is The Mule and we are back to Franzine for the next 20 or is he ready to become that Franzen on 2008 and 2009? I hope for the latter, of course, because that Franzen is what we need...not Franzine the . I still don't like the guy and still want him off this team, but at least if he starts producing, I can stomach the fact that he is here...I guess we will see. But, like a true fan, I say congrats to him on a great game played. He was a force out there for most the game and he deserved his star. I see Babcock put Tatar on Dats line for a shift...is that all we are going to see Babs? One shift? Because it wasn't 2 minutes later and #8 was back out there with him...Thanks Babcock, we really got to see what those two could do... edit: Brunner gets more and more amazing every game. When the debate comes up this summer on who do we choose to re-sign, Filppula or Brunner, I am casting my vote right now for Brunner. I say that because, unless Filppula gets traded, I know that thread will come up and with other FA's to re-sign and some nice UFA's out there, it might come down to giving the $4.5M to Filppula or Brunner... So far the pole is: Brunner 1 - Filppula 0

How about Roman Hamrlik?

...bottom line, he took a "discount" to stay here...he is playing like a $2.5M player...where is the discount?

Not for that cap hit....I am not knocking him, he is good and would help our PP, but I think that kind of money needs to be spent up front to find our scoring wing...

Speaking of Rivalries....I am far too excited to renew ours with the Bruins and Leafs in the East! Tootoo will provide some fireworks and soon enough we'll have Mike McKee patrolling the ice in the East! Damn, I cannot wait! Tonight? Go Wings! We need this win!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1554243-tallon-stephen-weiss-out-for-the-season Blah...so much for this rumor...

Last I checked it was Z with the MVP and Osgood's 9 straight wins that delivered us the Cup....if you want to say he helped deliver us the Cup then I agree. He did the same thing the next season, almost...but then he signed the "serious deal." He is no longer clutch....at all, by far. I echo the sentiments, why is it ok to play down to his contract? If he is so clutch, and so capable of delivering us a Cup, he should be outplaying his contract. Besides when he signed, he took a "discount" to stay here, if he is earning his contract then where is the discount?

I am just saying that they won't bring you what was once expected in return...I think we could hope for a pick at best. I agree with you about the stars, but we do need another winger that can twitch the twines... I am not expecting much this year, but next year I hope that Tatar is on the top 6 and a 40-50 goal scorer as well...

Kenny reminds me of Michigan Governer's....everytime they want to raise taxes on stuff it's always for "The Roads." Kenny, the only reason I have no big issue this season is because you really don't have anyone to trade that would bring back a star player... Flip and Franzine would get you a nice pick and that is about it. But please, PLEASE, find another phrase to use... I see no addition(s) at the deadline. Helm is done for the season, Bertuzzi possibly until playoffs (if we make it) and Sammy makes no difference. hey, at least he said "almost like a deadline addition" but anyhow:

It is quite possible the he my score 3 tonight...but then that will be all his scoring until October.

Agreed! I'd rather spend that money on securing Brunner. Flip may not garner a scorer, but he would fetch a pretty nice draft pick...

Fixed Franzine for you...

I don't know if White will be traded. He is still a solid NHL level defenseman that can fill in if there is an injury...too bad he has fallen to #8 status on this team. Either way, he will part ways with the Wings one way or another. If Holland nabs Dekeyser that's even more of a guarantee...

Agree with both of you. I was SUPER critical of the D early, but do like how they are coming around. If Q continues his climb, I will forgive Holland for the 1st rounder...to me Kindl is still a #7 defenseman. A very good one, but he is just that. I love Lashoff and am very impressed with they way he took advantage of his opportunity. Keep them young and fast and big and our D will thrive over the next 10 years PLUS! Up front, still lacking....Bert and Sammy will finish the year up and hopefully be bought out. I like Miller, but we already have Eaves signed another year so Miller is expendable. Cleary.........ya. Then there is Flip. I think its time for a deal for him. We have a plethora of centers than can provide what he provides...We need scoring wingers. I agree that we need to win these games. Each one is very winnable and there is no reason why we shouldn't win all 5 starting tonight. BUT, there is the lack of scoring problem...You have to score to win.

I agree. I like Flip but with Andersson, Helm and Sheahan near ready, we have a nice crop of centers already. I would like to get a couple REAL wingers and scorers in here. Tatar is a LW and ready, Nyquist is a natural LW...if we could get a high scoring RW in here that would be great! Brunner is showing good so far, get one more to hook up with Dats and we could make some noise... I am not sure Flip would bring us that scorer, but you never know. I have always wanted Ryan or Perry here, but the Ducks are doing very well and would probably be looking to move picks instead of players. I wonder if Calgary would interested in Filppula?

Plus, Pronger signed that 35+ contract that keeps the cap hit if he retires...so LTIR is an absolute necessity for Philly...

Yes dude....Brunner you read it correctly. If Franzine was traded today, his (lack of) offense would not be missed. Brunner more than makes up for it. Give both of them a full 82 games and Brunner out scores Franzine by at least 15 goals. You can mark it, bet on it and take it to the bank... Not that you need a lesson in math, but Franzine current 3 goals in 15 games prorates to 17ish over 82 games...Brunner's 10 in 22 games prorates to 37ish goals...Franzine brings nothing else to the table, he plays smaller than Brunner despite being 6' whatever and 200 and whatever pounds...watch a game now and then....

Not that I need to argue with you over it, but Manny and Chris (his in law) are together all the time. It's not like he just visits on the holiday. But that's ok, because since Manny is a Cup Champion nobody around here could possibly know him personally, or even be a close friend of his family, because there is no way that his in law would need to work for a living and have friends right? Dude, people are people. Everyone knows someone and it is not out of the question that someone knows a hockey player..... I guess me and my wife weren't a guest of both of them a few years ago at the Joe when Manny came to town when he played for Carolina.. I guess I have never hung out with them either. I guess when I go to a game with Chris, who still has plenty of friends at the Joe, I guess I don't get to park in the players lot and enter the building through the same door they do and get free access to the Olympia room....but ya, Manny is just going to make up a lie about his friend and the reason's he gave for retiring when he was still on top of his game....you're right, I have no insight about anything....i'm busted, damn!

Oh I beg to differ...Lids still maintains a friendship with Manny and I just happen to be quite good friends with Manny's Father in law...so yes, I do have more insight than you and most others...and these two issues were a huge part of his decision. They may have been only part of the decision, but guarantee, from God's mouth to your ears, they were part of the reason he left.

His contract would be an issue for another team though, I do believe....I would love to trade Franzine to the Isle for their 1st round pick....Garth Snow just may be that dumb too! BTW, he doesn't provide much scoring anymore...he has 3 in 15 games...prorate that, it's roughly 17 in 82 games. I will give him 20 considering he has that spurt once in a bit... His trade value is also on the decline...maybe we can get the Isle's 3rd rounder for him then? just an observation...nearly every thread today has turned into a Franzine thread and I didn't start any of it! I hope the MODS are keeping tabs! (sorry mods not picking on you, but usually it IS me that turns the threads into Franzine talk! How Ironic, eh?)

I still maintain that both Filppula and Franize are our most tradable assets. Whether it be for a player or just picks. As it stands right now, both are very replaceable with our kids that are ready. Tatar will score more than Franzine in a couple of season and Brunner more than replaces Filppula. That being said, I find it hard to believe Holland would trade either of them...please prove me wrong Kenny...

Yes, and Lidstrom could have easily played until he was 48, if anyone could do that, he could. He trains as hard as Chelios did. But, and this is fact, he didn't see the team getting better and he wanted to retire before it got ugly. He also didn't want to go through another lockout. Dats could play into his 40's, but why would he do that if the GM fails to make the team better? Holland not only has to make this team better, but he has to make Datsyuk want to play here. Which means cut ties with average washed up players and get some high powered scoring in here. I understand the injuries, but putting Bert back on Dats wing is not going to make us Cup contenders. Holland has this off season to lure Dats to stay for a few more years. Holland is on the spot starting right now....here is what we know of Holland right now: failed to replace Hossa's scoring, failed to replace Rafalski, failed to replace Stuart, failed to replace Lidstrom....did he try? we think he did, but when he loses Datsyuk and doesn't have a game plan to stop that bleeding, he is in deep doo-doo. He needs to have that plan in effect right now. He didn't have it for Lids because he figured that Lids would not retire now, not after another Norris season, he wouldn't leave the...the...The Mighty Red Wings would he? Well Kenny, he did, and you dropped the ball and should have had a plan. Instead you just assumed that Ryan Suter would come here because, well because we are the...the...The Mighty Red Wings! He wouldn't say no to us would he? How dare he! The best way to keep Datsyuk around is to ice a winning team with the best players you can get. Even then, that is no guarantee, but if you stick with Bertuzzi and Sammy and Cleary....kiss Pavel goodbye. Honestly, I don't trust Kenny with 3 #1 picks...I'd rather keep Datsyuk and take my chances with him leaving. Besides, if he does leave after next year, we'll have our own top 5 #1 pick for a few years in a row!

This team needs a whipping boy...even as Cup champions they need one. It just so happens they have two right now, Franzia and Cleary. Some other whip on other players for whatever reason and they have their reason and I respect it. I cannot stand Franzia, never wanted him to be re-signed over Hossa. Hossa is the heads and tails better player and from the day he signed here, he should have been locked up long term. No, Kenny didn't have a crystal ball and no one would have guessed that Franzine would take a dump like he has. I knew from the get go that Hossa was the better player and was more than willing to give up Franzine and his three years of great play for Hossa. It was a no brainer. But Holland being the better hockey mind, chose otherwise. He was wrong. Yet, he is still the GM, so he must be right more times than not and I am still in my line of work... I love being able to say I told you so when its all said and done though! It may not change what happened or what Holland will do next, but I love when I am right just as much as I hate when I am wrong... I also like the idea of Chicago buying out Hossa, which I was calling two years ago, and I would love to be right about that! We could get Hossa back and if Holland does that, then you know that he knows he was wrong.... Either way, Franzine deserves his whipping boy status despite his 5 goal game that only 2 other Red Wings have done...oh boy!

This honestly needs its own thread, but when you are trying to outbid or be the most attractive destination for a top tier UFA player like Dekeyser, you have to make yourself just that. Attractive. I am sure it would be a 1-way contract for sure, but Holland can promise him a top 6 spot and see if he can handle it. Just an FYI, when Smith at Wisconsin, we had a few spots already taken up by guys named Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall & Stuart. There is a spot here for Dekeyser now. Besides Danny is 23 in a couple of days, Smith was 20 his last year at Wisconsin...

I am sure the OP didn't mean for this to become another Franzia v. Hossa debate, but in the end, that is why he has become a whipping boy...we lost our only 40 goal scorer since Shanahan for this guy and he has done nothing to prove that he was the right choice. I appreciate his 29 goals last season, but when he scores 20 by December and then only nets 9 more the rest of the year, he deserves his whipping boy status. If he wasn't chosen over Hossa, if we never had Hossa to begin with, he may not be the whipping boy that he is.