LeftWinger

Yes dude....Brunner you read it correctly. If Franzine was traded today, his (lack of) offense would not be missed. Brunner more than makes up for it. Give both of them a full 82 games and Brunner out scores Franzine by at least 15 goals. You can mark it, bet on it and take it to the bank... Not that you need a lesson in math, but Franzine current 3 goals in 15 games prorates to 17ish over 82 games...Brunner's 10 in 22 games prorates to 37ish goals...Franzine brings nothing else to the table, he plays smaller than Brunner despite being 6' whatever and 200 and whatever pounds...watch a game now and then....

Not that I need to argue with you over it, but Manny and Chris (his in law) are together all the time. It's not like he just visits on the holiday. But that's ok, because since Manny is a Cup Champion nobody around here could possibly know him personally, or even be a close friend of his family, because there is no way that his in law would need to work for a living and have friends right? Dude, people are people. Everyone knows someone and it is not out of the question that someone knows a hockey player..... I guess me and my wife weren't a guest of both of them a few years ago at the Joe when Manny came to town when he played for Carolina.. I guess I have never hung out with them either. I guess when I go to a game with Chris, who still has plenty of friends at the Joe, I guess I don't get to park in the players lot and enter the building through the same door they do and get free access to the Olympia room....but ya, Manny is just going to make up a lie about his friend and the reason's he gave for retiring when he was still on top of his game....you're right, I have no insight about anything....i'm busted, damn!

Oh I beg to differ...Lids still maintains a friendship with Manny and I just happen to be quite good friends with Manny's Father in law...so yes, I do have more insight than you and most others...and these two issues were a huge part of his decision. They may have been only part of the decision, but guarantee, from God's mouth to your ears, they were part of the reason he left.

His contract would be an issue for another team though, I do believe....I would love to trade Franzine to the Isle for their 1st round pick....Garth Snow just may be that dumb too! BTW, he doesn't provide much scoring anymore...he has 3 in 15 games...prorate that, it's roughly 17 in 82 games. I will give him 20 considering he has that spurt once in a bit... His trade value is also on the decline...maybe we can get the Isle's 3rd rounder for him then? just an observation...nearly every thread today has turned into a Franzine thread and I didn't start any of it! I hope the MODS are keeping tabs! (sorry mods not picking on you, but usually it IS me that turns the threads into Franzine talk! How Ironic, eh?)

I still maintain that both Filppula and Franize are our most tradable assets. Whether it be for a player or just picks. As it stands right now, both are very replaceable with our kids that are ready. Tatar will score more than Franzine in a couple of season and Brunner more than replaces Filppula. That being said, I find it hard to believe Holland would trade either of them...please prove me wrong Kenny...

Yes, and Lidstrom could have easily played until he was 48, if anyone could do that, he could. He trains as hard as Chelios did. But, and this is fact, he didn't see the team getting better and he wanted to retire before it got ugly. He also didn't want to go through another lockout. Dats could play into his 40's, but why would he do that if the GM fails to make the team better? Holland not only has to make this team better, but he has to make Datsyuk want to play here. Which means cut ties with average washed up players and get some high powered scoring in here. I understand the injuries, but putting Bert back on Dats wing is not going to make us Cup contenders. Holland has this off season to lure Dats to stay for a few more years. Holland is on the spot starting right now....here is what we know of Holland right now: failed to replace Hossa's scoring, failed to replace Rafalski, failed to replace Stuart, failed to replace Lidstrom....did he try? we think he did, but when he loses Datsyuk and doesn't have a game plan to stop that bleeding, he is in deep doo-doo. He needs to have that plan in effect right now. He didn't have it for Lids because he figured that Lids would not retire now, not after another Norris season, he wouldn't leave the...the...The Mighty Red Wings would he? Well Kenny, he did, and you dropped the ball and should have had a plan. Instead you just assumed that Ryan Suter would come here because, well because we are the...the...The Mighty Red Wings! He wouldn't say no to us would he? How dare he! The best way to keep Datsyuk around is to ice a winning team with the best players you can get. Even then, that is no guarantee, but if you stick with Bertuzzi and Sammy and Cleary....kiss Pavel goodbye. Honestly, I don't trust Kenny with 3 #1 picks...I'd rather keep Datsyuk and take my chances with him leaving. Besides, if he does leave after next year, we'll have our own top 5 #1 pick for a few years in a row!

This team needs a whipping boy...even as Cup champions they need one. It just so happens they have two right now, Franzia and Cleary. Some other whip on other players for whatever reason and they have their reason and I respect it. I cannot stand Franzia, never wanted him to be re-signed over Hossa. Hossa is the heads and tails better player and from the day he signed here, he should have been locked up long term. No, Kenny didn't have a crystal ball and no one would have guessed that Franzine would take a dump like he has. I knew from the get go that Hossa was the better player and was more than willing to give up Franzine and his three years of great play for Hossa. It was a no brainer. But Holland being the better hockey mind, chose otherwise. He was wrong. Yet, he is still the GM, so he must be right more times than not and I am still in my line of work... I love being able to say I told you so when its all said and done though! It may not change what happened or what Holland will do next, but I love when I am right just as much as I hate when I am wrong... I also like the idea of Chicago buying out Hossa, which I was calling two years ago, and I would love to be right about that! We could get Hossa back and if Holland does that, then you know that he knows he was wrong.... Either way, Franzine deserves his whipping boy status despite his 5 goal game that only 2 other Red Wings have done...oh boy!

This honestly needs its own thread, but when you are trying to outbid or be the most attractive destination for a top tier UFA player like Dekeyser, you have to make yourself just that. Attractive. I am sure it would be a 1-way contract for sure, but Holland can promise him a top 6 spot and see if he can handle it. Just an FYI, when Smith at Wisconsin, we had a few spots already taken up by guys named Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall & Stuart. There is a spot here for Dekeyser now. Besides Danny is 23 in a couple of days, Smith was 20 his last year at Wisconsin...

I am sure the OP didn't mean for this to become another Franzia v. Hossa debate, but in the end, that is why he has become a whipping boy...we lost our only 40 goal scorer since Shanahan for this guy and he has done nothing to prove that he was the right choice. I appreciate his 29 goals last season, but when he scores 20 by December and then only nets 9 more the rest of the year, he deserves his whipping boy status. If he wasn't chosen over Hossa, if we never had Hossa to begin with, he may not be the whipping boy that he is.

Well I think I speak for all of us when it comes to this type scary shiit.. ..you shut your mouth when you are talking about these type of rumors you motor boating son of a b!itch!

Hindsight is always easy to wipe away and see clearer. I know the options that Holland had and already mentioned that at the time Franzia was lights out every night and in the playoffs, so you cannot blame Holland for thinking that that would continue. As it turned out, it didn't and keeping him over Hossa looks idiotic right now. I could only hope that Chicago buys out Hossa and Holland reclaims the jewel he lost. But will Hossa want to come back here with our winning ways behind us for the moment? Datsyuk sure would be happy...

I totally agree, I know he won't buy them out, but it is still the right thing to do if he wants to keep Filppula and Brunner long term... Unless they both sign 1 year deals with a slight raise until there is more cap open the following year...but that only happened when the Yzerman's and Shanahan's were around, that shiit don't happen now...

Well if we are just talking cap hit, then Hossa only makes $1.3M more than Franzia. ...and like I explained, if Holland chose to keep Hossa and not dick around with Hudler, he would have not had to lose anyone else. He offered Hudler $3.5M and gave Franzia $3.9M...Hossa signed or $5.2M...in the end Franzia got $3.9M and Hudler walked to Russia. If Holland kept Hossa you wouldn't have seen Williams and his $1.5M, thus freeing up more money...

Hossa and Franzen were both loved here that year. Hossa hurt himself and that is why he underperformed in those playoffs and he missed half the next season while recovering from that surgery. I for one, never wanted to re-sign Franzen and wanted to keep Hossa in his place. Sure Hossa costs $1.3M more per season but that wouldn't have to drop anyone. Holland chose to wait out Hudler and his stupid games. He signed Franzia for the $3.9 Cap, then offered Hudler $3.5M per season. They had plenty of money because other guys wouldn't have been picked up (Drew Miller) the next season. Especially when Hudler was awarded only $2.9M from arbitration. So take away Drew Miller and Hudler's original $3.5M You got $4M right there. Take away Jason Williams $1.5M and bang you have both Hossa and Franzia... which would have been fine and very doable. But Holland decided to dick around with Hudler all summer and Hossa left. So like I have always said, Holland chose Franzia and Hudler over keeping Hossa, which is probably one of his biggest mistakes...

He got this contract because back in 08 and 09 he was on his game every night and in the playoffs. We lost Marion Hossa because Franzia was on his game every night and in the playoffs...he got his contract and his play has declined more and more each year, especially in the playoffs... is it due to age, injury, laziness, I am not sure, but one thing is for sure, he was expected to play a lot better than he is and the fact that he'll score 20 goals in 2 months, then score 9 more in 4 months makes him a viable and deserved whipping boy. His contract was 11 years $43.5M paying him mostly up front, averaging $3.9M. He is getting well paid to do nothing, now if he makes it to the point to where he is only making $1M per season salary and plays like this, so be it, but for $5.5M he needs to step it up everytime he gets out there... exactly, because 1. He looked like a Mule and 2. He was a big body and hard to move out of the front of the net. Looked like a Mule, acted like a Mule, he was called Mule. He plays now more like a toy poodle. But I get what you are saying, he had a contract prior to this one. He had his EL contract his rookie year and then signed a 3 year one when he still played lights out and really earned his nick-name. Then he got his retirement contract and now takes 50% of the season off.

if Holland does the right thing and buys out Bert and Sammy, that frees up $5M right there

That is fine too, I am just saying, considering he makes $3.5M now, a $1M increase is not too much...Filppula got his current contract before he had his breakout year, so I am assuming Brunner will get $3.5M to $4M here. Hopefully that is enough to keep him around to help bring this team back to the Cup...as a matter of fact, Fil got a 5 year $15M deal with a cap hit of $3M. If Brunner got 5 yrs $20M I wouldn't be upset...Although he could command upwards of $5M per... of course with only $17M in cap space available next year, we cannot be giving $10M of it to Fil and Brunner, so really something may have to give with Fil...

Kindl is a #7 when he is the one rotating with the other #7 Huskins. Kindl was passed up on the depth chart by Lashoff. Kindl will never be top 6 on a consistant basis outside of injuries...

Nah, what does Babcock know about Franzia? We have the expert in the author who wrote the useless article...

Franzia is well deverved of his whipping boy status, by his own admittance that he gets bored in the NHL and doesn't give 100% all the time... Also, the author is wrong about how he got his nickname. He was called the Mule because it was so hard to move him from in front of the net. (When he was younger and didn't get his serious contract yet.) It had absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic on the ice. A mule is unmovable and stubborn and cannot be pushed down once it stands it ground. That is what Franzia was prior to his contract signing. That is why he was name the Mule. The author needs to get the facts correct before he writes his gibberish. That was a quote directly from Steve Yzerman himself in describing why he called him the Mule along with a tongue in cheek shot at his huge front teeth which makes him resemble one as well... I also like how the author refers to him being one of only two players to score 5 goals in a game...that may be true, but he omitted the fact that he scored those 5 goals and then didn't score again for 2 months, and I think only 4 more the rest of the season... Then he ends up with a challenge, if you have the guts post your comments below. Well I certainly have the guts, but do not conform to social media controlling what I post since you are required to have a waste-of-facebook account, which I do not, I cannot comment. I would certainly invite him here to debate with us because I can guarantee 75% of our users have more hockey knowledge than he does...

You all seem to forget that Holland likes to keep his own players first and foremost... as much as I think Bert and Sammy should be bought out, they probably won't. Cleary has something on someone, so he will be re-signed and unless a playoff favorite offers a nice deal for Filppula, he will get his asking price of $4.5M (if that rumor is true.) Couple those in with re-signing Smith, Howard, Brunner, Andersson, Kindl and possibly Miller and Huskins there will be hardly any cap room or roster space... In my perfect world, Holland does the following. (and I will use your guys want for Clarkson just for example) Say goodbye to UFA's Cleary, Miller, White. Re-sign RFA's Andersson, Smith & Kindl...re-sign UFA's Brunner, Filppula, Howard & Huskins... Sign FA D-man Danny Dekeyser and sign your guy Clarkson. Then buyout Sammy and Bertuzzi and waive Colaiacovo making our roster look like this: Tatar - Dastyuk - Filppula Franzia - Zetterberg - Brunner Clarkson - Helm - Tootoo Eaves - Emmerton - Abdelkader Andersson (Sheahan) Kronwall - Ericsson Smith - Quincey Lashoff - Dekeyser Kindl (Huskins) Howard Monster ...that is an ideal roster moving forward next season and growing together. Now if Holland cannot fit all this under the cap, then other routes will need to be explored, obviously... also I am not sure of Nyquist's status for waiver or not. If he cannot be sent down then of course he will take the place of Tatar to begin the season....

This GDT thread has been turned into anything but.... While we are on the subject of D, I also can live with that D above, just add Dekeyser and we are fine. I have been on Q's case a lot, mainly because he cost us a 1st round pick to get him, and even though he is still not worth the pick, I am seeing improvement that I can live with. Kindl will forever be #7 defenseman on this team, I am fine with that too. I think that Holland should sign Huskins too to rotate with Kindl at that #6/#7 spot. Kronwall - Ericsson Smith - Quincey Lashoff - Dekeyser Kindl (Huskins) That should be a nice solid D-Corp for a few years while Sproul, Ouellet, McKee and Backman do their time in GR... Maybe someone should create a thread to discuss the State of the D in the D.... I will say that I am betting on Dekeyser being here for the playoffs and beyond. If Holland cannot get him signed it's because he refuses to give him top 6 minutes. Which, when White leaves and Cola gets waived he should be able to give him the minutes.

...if Cleary is re-signed, frick this team! Talk about taking up a roster space from someone who deserves it...Holland needs to be fired if he re-signs Cleary....period. Say goodbye to Dats if Holland does nothing to make this team better and Dats is stuck playing with garbage like Cleary... $4.5M is fine for Filppula. I don't see why the Wings would say its too much, it's only $1.0M more than his salary is now. In my opinion any lower would be a low-ball. Flip can get $5M on the market easily...

For that $7M lost they can have a serious scorer for the first line and keep the kids up... ...that just leaves the little problem called Franzia....I still say dump him...

The last thing we need is for Brunner to become a playmaker...we have too many of those already! He needs to more of a Cy Young winner than a playmaker. That pass he gave to Franzia, the one that Franzia love tapped and wondered why he couldn't score, Brunner would've buried it top shelf. People need to stop telling him to be a playmaker, he was brought here to score goals, not create them...