LeftWinger

I hope it only takes 2-3 years....it took 42 years after the WIngs dominated the 30s and 40s...It's all on Holland to make the corrections of the mistakes he made the last 3 years AND to start drafting better in the higher rounds so we get that superstar talent. We will see this deadling, draft, UFA day...this is maybe the biggest and most defining time in Holland's life, IMO if he sits at #17 in the draft and both Pulock and Hagg are available and he chooses Hagg, then we may be looking at another 42 year drought. He needs to make the right choices NOW to get this team back to the top in 2-3 years and drafting the same old way and signing the same old players is not going to do it. He needs to prove to the UFA world that he is serious and that Detroit IS the place to be again. He is not doing that by giving players like Sammy and Bert two year contract, not by giving away 40-50 goal snipers and keeping 20-30 goal 3rd liners. He is not doing that by overpaying (1st rounder) for a journey-man defenseman who wasn't good enough to keep befre when you drafted him in the 4th round. I understand he was trying to lessen the blow of Stuart leaving, but I think he just waited too long and was desperate and dropped the ball and it is showing. I think that he was under the impression that Stuart may change his mind and Lidstrom would give it one more year (again.) And Holland dragged his feet until it was too late. We will see come deadline....if we hear the same old <player name> returning from injury is our deadline acquisition.... We will see come draft...if we hear that Haken Andersson recommended Robert Hagg over Ryan Pulock and we like his play and project him to be a solid player in 5 years... We will see come UFA...if we hear, we kicked the tires, made some calls, but in the end we liked our team going forward...we fell good offering Cleary another 2 years and giving Fil $5M+... ...then we wil see if it takes 2-3 years. I doubt it.

First of all, I am not Axe.... Yes, both Chevy and Legace got shellacked, but still put up similar numbers as Howard, yet when it came down to it, neither were considered elite goaltenders, just average or above average, which puts Howard right in line with them, until he seperates himself from them... I hope you are right about them playing M-Raz in three years if he is outplaying Jimmy, BUT my point is/was, if Howard is making $5M+ at the same time M-Raz is outplaying him, Howard will not sit on the bench making all that money. Same reason the Wings chose Legace over Osgood in '01 when Hasek was traded for. Osgood was making about $3.5M I believe and the reason he was waived is because, right from Holland's mouth, we cannot have a $3.5M goalie sitting on the bench. That is why I am afraid that even though M-Raz will be outplaying Howard (trust me, he will) Howard will still be starting because of his salary and M-Raz will just leave when he can to become a starter somewhere else...and that will be a HUGE mistake to keep Howard over M-Raz...

Noone is going to take Kronwall's contract from us, Lashoff is still a rookie and Abby is struggling for sure. Cleary shouldn't even be mentioned on a Wings forum anymore he sucks. Kindl and Q are both horrible, but someone has to be out there when the top line scores...+/- is the most useless stat ever... Kindl was a #19 pick overall and Quincey was traded for what turned out to be a #19 pick overall...You have two 1st round picks out there playing like crap. Kindl has failed at every attempt to crack the top 6 on a consistant basis and Q is living up to the reason's that the Wings kept Meech instead of him years ago...neither should be on this roster next season...they should be dealt this season.

If we are going to go with Draft mistakes, there are ton of mistakes the Wings made, along with 30 other teams...but using your example of Primeau, if I were to go back and draft a different person in that spot, it wouldn't have been Jagr, it would have been Brodeur. Then the other debate on the Osgood for Roy and whoever else ws invovlved point is moot. Besides, with the team we iced in the 90's and 2000's there would have been more Cups with Brodeur on this team than Roy. WIth or without Primeau, I still think Bowman would have been able to acquire Shanahan... Mistake by the Wings: Choosing Hudler and Franzen over Hossa...(I hated it then and have never waivered from that opinion) Even though Hudler ended up going to Russia, Holland had offered him a $3.5M contract before Hudler opted for arbitration, so Holland was handcuffed until the decision or Hudler's decision...so the $3.9M to Franzine and the $3.5M offer to Hudler could have EASILY landed Hossa here for life considering his cap hit is only $5.275M...take that away from the Franzine/Hudler offer of $7.4M total that left $2.2M in cap space to pick up another FA. This is one of many of Holland mistakes in recent history and it started the downfall of the Red Wings to where they stand right now. Trading a 1st for Quincey was just the start of that screw up...not letting him walk as a RFA and getting picks in return was another...then overpaying him by about $1M was another mistake...letting him play every night and stinking up the joint is the topper for this deal...trade him and save some face.

Bottom line and this should end the discussion: Howard is an above average goalie, but he is being made to look average because of the Defense, not his play. If not for some of the saves he has made this season, the Wings could very well only have 2 wins thus far. If Holland addresses the D needs, then we will see a pre-injury Howard from last season again...it's all on Holland to get this turned around. PS, injuries are not the problem...

Seto should have gotten disciplined by taking a stick to the mouth himself, or a fist, but unfortunately for us, Babs and Holland are back to the same old "let the league handle it" and "our PP is our enforcer" because much like when everyone sat and watched Stuart get the flying elbow in Calgary a couple years back with noone defending him, everyone just sat and watched this happen. Glad they scored in that PP or else I would have been really disappointed....oh wait. WTF!?!?

First of all, I am a huge Osgood and Legace fan so I am not detracting anything from them. I am just saying Legace has won here just as much as Howard and most folks hated on him for not winning in the playoffs. I am not cherry picking anything. My whole point was about the regular season stats. Also, if you think Howard will get less than $4M then I want what you are drinking and if gets $5M+ I want what Holland is drinking! My comparison's were and are, Howard is above average, but at this moment he is no better than Legace or Cheveldae, so he is not elite, but above average. I agree with your take on the Roy comparison, which is why Jimmy is being exposed a bit for what he is, because of the bad D in front of him...imagine Legace or Cheveldae on this current team...I think they would struggle a bit too... I like Jimmy, I am not a huge fan of his, but I am fine with him here. But I can see Holland overpaying him and then in three years when M-Raz is outplaying him, Howard will still be playing because of his salary and we may lose M-Raz, who in three years WILL be better than Howard (barring injutries.) Yes that is my opinion of M-Raz, he is better than Howard, but because of Babs and Holland love of Jimmy, M-Raz will probably be gone in three years because he won't want to ride the pine behind an average goalie. I will also be surprised if Howard ges 400 wins, let alone 3 Cups....it just isn't going to happen unless Holland addresses this teams problems, which thankfully, isn't goaltending. But signing players like Bert, Sammy, keeping Cleary on the ice and wasting 1st round picks on trash like Q alon with letting Kindl step on the ice, then no, it just won't happen....and we'll probably lose Dom, Jr.

I agree! With out two amnesty buyouts, they should buyout Bert and Sammy...and no way should Cleary be re-sigened...I like Miller but again, the kids are ready, I think Sheahan is ready to fill MIller's spot, but I will miss him. IMO, Mursak should be let to walk as well. I am still for trading Fil, but it won't hurt is he is re-signed...So without trading Fil, that opens 5 spots up (after Brunner is re-signed.) to bring up the kids and sign a couple of FA's... on the back end is where the panic is and the major changes are needed! They only FA's that should be re-signed are Smith, Lashoff and Huskins (he makes a solid #6-7 d-man.) I am letting White go, he just doesn't have it anymore without Lidstrom and we are stuck with Cola since noone will wnat him via trade. Quincey should be dealt for whatever we can get in return (won't be a 1st that is for sure!) and the Kindl project is over, Huskins is a better 6/7 guy...So we have Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Cola and Lashoff left. That leaves room for 2 UFA defensemen to come in and take over the #1/2 slot. Kronner is just better at #3. One of those UFA's has GOT to be a legit #1....no ifs, ands or buts. Money, no object. Unfortunately, there are no top tier UFA's available, unless you count Visnovsky or Scuderi...I personally would love to see Douglas Murray here. Also, while I do not believe the Wings will tank enough to land Seth Jones, but I can see them having a legit shot at Pulock and that is the guy Holland should draft, not Hagg. I would also love to see DeKeyser forego his Senior year and sign here, so next year to D looks like this: Murray - Ericsson Kronwall - Smith Lashoff - Dekeyser Huskins/Cola ...and Pulock to our growing prospects and they look like this: Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, McKee, DeHaas and some others...Add Pulock to that list and the future of the D looks tons better. ...sorry, didn't mean to turn this post into a "what to do in the off season response" but it just goes to show my level of panic right now...

While I tend to believe Howard is better than average, I do agree with this statement. I hope I am wrong because Howard is here to stay and will probably get a $5M+ contract this summer as Holland loves to overpay for mid-level talent...as shown by some of the contracts he has handed out...when it comes to Elite players, he tends to underpay...although kudos for the pursuit of the Olsen Twins...but I honestly see him giving Jimmy a way overpayment for what he has earned...which is nothing. Hell even Cheveldae won 112 games in his 5 years in Detroit...Legace won 108 in 6 years...Howard is at 115 in 5 years, all with no Cups won (outside of Legace's as a backup.) Do I think Howard is better than Cheveldae or Legace, yes, but he is not elite...but who is anymore?

I don't ever falt out blame JImmy. He does give up bad rebounds and I have never really been a huge fan of his, but I don't trash Jimmy. I just happen to think M-Raz is better than him. I do agree M-Raz belongs back in the minors because he needs to play. Babcock just refuses to make the correct lineup changes and sitting M-Raz for so long (after his debut) was a mistake. He should have at least played in one of the back-to-back games. But until the D gets adressed, we could have a 2000 version of Dom Hasek and still be losing....I may be on the wagon of thinking Howard isn't anything more than above average, but I have been blaming the D all year long, with the exception of when I trash on Jimmy for his rebound problems... For the Record: I am not arguing that M-Raz should stay up rather than Monster, I am just saying until Holland grows some balls and makes a move to get a D-man, its only going to be the same for Monster....a goalie can only stop so many odd man rushes and break-aways... I like Jonas, but I also believe that he won't play as much as you guys think...Babs just refuses to sit Howard for more than 1 out of 8 or 9 games....

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130219/SPORTS0103/302190341/Red-Wings-look-eliminate-costly-mistakes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Damn! I sure was hoping that this article was about actaully eliminating COSTLY mistakes...like a few contracts! *Cough Cough* Franzine, *Cough* Quincey *Cough Cough* Well since Holland or Babcock won't address any of these problems you listed (or your solutions) then Yes, yes we are in REAL bad shape...

It's nice to have Jonas back and it'll be nice to get Smith and Helm back...the rest? Not gonna make a difference.

BTW, please guys, it's FedOrov not FedErov...thats almost as annoying as LiNdstrom....and yes a 43 year old Fedorov is much better than Cleary right now. But that just isn't going to happen, because a 21 year old Sheahan is better than Cleary and we already have him...Put Tatar up with Dats and Z, we already have him. Over half this team can be traded and it we wouldn't miss them. Holland better get his ass moving, or Yzerman will be our GM sooner than later! Exactly my point of comparing the Wings of the 30's and 40's to the Wings of the 90's and 00's...it's about time that they become bad again and it's Holland's fault for not addressing it soon enough...

In the 30's and 40's the Wings dominated the league, then their core players aged, retired, moved on and the Wings went 42 years without a Cup.....Wings dominated the league in the 90's and 00's, then their core players aged, retired, moved on and the Wings.....well, lets hope history does not repeat itself, but sadly, it may be a long time and a lot of changes later before the Wings return to dominance in the NHL. If Holland does NOT make a deal this year and address this team and its needs, it's time for a change in the brass. This team, this town, cannot afford another 40+ years of not winning. Holland needs to address the two glaring issues right now and right here. #1 defense and #1 sniper. If the Wings tank, drafting Seth Jones would be a step in that direction. If they fall to the 15th-ish pick, drafting Ryan Pulock would be solid. If Holland, at any pick, goes back to his SOP and drafts the way he has drafted in his history, Wings are in trouble and he should be fired. No longer is he at advantage in drafting unknown Euro's, he needs to make the obvious picks now and he needs to let go of some established assets to get this team back in the right direction...it's been going south since he let Hossa go (not saying that wass the only issue) but it was a huge mistake and bad decision. He needs a #1 defender and yes he went after Suter, but maybe just maybe, he needed to go harder? Dunno, it's hard to sway a player away from family. This team needs major changes and it needs to start now. They aren't losing because of injuries, they are losing because the players just aren't game breakers. Z and Dats can only do so much adn the level of talent between Z and Dats and the rest of the team is like going from the top of the highest roller coaster to 20,000 leagues under the sea...I am scared and I am about to panic.

I wish I could get excited, but its only gonna be just as bad for Monster. I believe that M-Raz is better than both Howie and Monster, but if you aren't going to address to crap defense, it doesn't matter who is in goal. Good news that Monster is healthy, but I have a feeling its not gonna help the Wings....Welcome back Jonas! Pull that seatbelt one more notch and hold on!

I really think Babcock has lost touch with reality and his players...he needs to go. I like him, but its time to change and if Holland isn't gonna shake things up via trade, then the entire coaching staff must go. Its time for a change, just like when Lewis was here...

Even if they tanked, you know Holland wouldnt draft Jones...if they lose in the first round you know he aint drafting Pulock. This team in its current condition is Hollands fault. I seriously think Tootoo was told not to fight anymore....

This team is horrible guys....no need to even debate it. So many changes are needed its unbelievable....

Penalty shot? Wtf. Cleary out there, no goal coming.

Just what is Fil supposed to do with Cleary and Sammy on his line?

I just meant I hate Q in general, not that he was bad tonight. Seto still needs his mouth cranked...

I hate Q, but why does Seto still have teeth right now? Was Tootoo told to stop fighting?

Sammy garbage....wtf is cleary doing out there....dyck babs

Leaving M-Raz out to dry.....our D sucks!.

Damn you.....