LeftWinger

Game 2...and Malkin was doing more than wrestling.... Nah...that was not instagating a fight with Hank...f*** you Bettman!

Sorry, I just don't get the Howard over Osgood rank. Osgood won you a Cup and was on the brink of another. BOTH of those finals he was a SERIOUS Conn Smythe candidate, in fact, if not for Zetterbergs MVP shift when the Wings were down 5 on 3, Osgood would have (and I believe still should have) won it. If the Wings could have mustered a couple more goals in either games 5 or 6 (or not been screwed by Bettman early in the series) Osgood would have won it in 2009 as well...

Not to mention Columbus REFUSED to deal Rick Nash to us and chose a team in the OTHER conference....well, ahem, if this happens looks like you just traded your superstar player to a team in the same conference...tee hee. Could have dealt him to Detroit and not worried about him biting you in the ass....dumb ass.

Dead horse I know, but if Malkin had been suspended for Game 3 like he was supposed to be (until Uncle Gary recinded the instigator penalty citing that "the game needs its stars to play") then Malkin wouldn't had been able to factor in to ALL the goals (except the EN) If Detroit goes up 3 games to ZERO in that series, Detroit wins back-back Cups...Again! But Uncle Gary couldn't have that happen now could he?

It'd be VERY interesting to see who Minnesota buys out.... No way they buyout one of the Olsen Twins...Looks like it may be the ******* All-Star... Honeslty, I wish Holland would buyout Franzine...or trade him for a player that actually WANTS to play...

How many times will Mr. I allow Bettman to screw him until he has had enough? Mr. I IS the mist powerful owner in the NHL and should just have some of his little Greek mobster family members put a hit out on him....

...and keeps them from having to play those dirty Canadians!

Funny thing about the Wings almost drafting Bure is, could you imagine the Kournikova drama in the dressing room? Yikes! On the other hand, could you imagine (all due respect to Slava Kozlov) a Russian five of Bure - Larinov - Fedorov - Konstantinov - Fetisov....

1995 team was TONS better, yet the 2009 loss stung worse because Uncle Gary changed the rules to hand them the Cup. 1995 stung, but since being a Wings fan for years and years prior to that suffering defeat after defeat after defeat, it was a breathe of fresh air to dominate the league and make it to the Finals that season. Would have been nice to win, but like they say, you have to suffer a devestating loss to learn how to win the next time. 1995 created the beast that has spoiled you all to this day! 2009 wasn't ours to win to begin with, not when you are battling both a team and the league. That is ok though, I just look back to 2009 when all the pens fans that came here and said that was just first of 4-5 Cups in a row for Sid. Nice to see that no team has even come close to dominating as much as the Red Wings have...and probably never will come close. I cannot think of a team in the league today that will even come close to 3 Cups in 6 years... Suck it Bettman!

Cherry is wrong, they didn't LET him in the CHL, they WANTED him in the CHL just sao he didn't go elsewhere. IF not the CHL then maybe an American College or maybe the WHL, etc... the CHL wanted to best young prospect in the world to grace their league, so Cherry is WAY off target with his statement...

You mean "even though he ended up in Calgary..." He IS a Calgary Flame. I may not like the tool, but I am damn glad he is OK. I watched BOTH Malarchuk and Zednik happen live on TV and neither of them was a pretty sight and were both super scary and made my heart skip...I thought I was watching someone die on the ice...Get Well soon Hudler, so when the NHL returns we can whoop your can!

Datsyuk will retire on top.... Zetterberg will continue his decline in play, but much like Yzerman may retool his game to remain effective in this league... Franzen was done when he re-signed his contract. Trade him now while his value around the league is still fair. Just get him off this team!

with not too much to talk about or watch NHL wise this year, I have been trying to watch whatever games I can that involve Red Wings prospects along with doing a lot of reading up on the youngsters.... With the emergence of a lot of top talented 19-22 year old players, I started looking at some of the players who have pretty much missed the boat or their window of opportunity make it to the NHL. My list is as follows, please I would love to hear all of your opinions! Jordan Pearce Thomas McCollum **** Axelsson Daniel Larsson Gennady Stolyarov Jesper Samuelsson Anton Axelsson Evegeni Bumagin (way past his prime!) Andrei Maximenko (another bust in the pan!) Alexander Seluyanov (another busted Russian) Those guys are pretty obvious, but also I don't see the Red Wings utilizing Radeke, Fournier, Coetzee too much if at all. Also I think, even though he is in their top 20 prospects, Joakim Andersson isn't gonna cack this lineup fulltime ever... I have high hopes for Ferraro, Nicastro and even though I think he may be close to missing, Lashoff. Nicastro and Lashoff are two big defensenmen, but they have a ways to go to overtake Sproul and Ouelette not to mention Almqvist who is already playing in GRR and ahead of them on the prospects list. Along with McKee being drafted and the rumblings about the possible signing of DeKeyser...it would be a tough road ahead for Nicastro or Lashoff to get in the lineup. Of course if Holland would gibe up the Kindl experiment, that would help in seeing what they could bring... This is not set in stone, but if you are already pushing 23 and are still not at least playing in GRR, I think you may have missed the boat...

The only way Franzine becomes a prime Bertuzzi is when he plays NHL 2004. Personally, I would have wanted to see JR circa 2001. Would have possibly been nice to see Gretzky realize his childhood dream of playing for the Wings before he retired, but the Wings were already stacked at that time and had no room for him! FRK me! I also would have loved it if Detroit was allowed to draft Bure! They would have had Fedorov AND Bure at the same time! Conspiracy I say! Keith Tkachuk in his prime also comes to mind! So does Marty Broduer, Doug Weight, Sergei Zubov, Craig Conroy, Peter Bondra, Bill Geurin, BObby Holik, Adam Deadmarsh, Tie Domi, Rob Blake....and out of criteria, but I really wish Adam Graves got to stay here longer! (although in a weird way he got us Brendan Shanahan via Jimmy Carson via Paul Coffey...)

I am not disputing that Cleary has value on this team, he does, as a third line player. Kirk Maltby was for the most part a 4th line player his entire career here, but on most nights, outside of the #1 line, the line of Maltby/Draper/Lapointe(Kocur/McCarty) was the best and most consistant on the Wings and around the NHL at what their roles were. Cleary is a fine role player, but he just isn't as valuable as Maltby was to this team. I guess you and I are just two different era's of Red Wings fans, so when Dan Cleary has played in over 1000 hard nosed, grinding bottom 6, get dirty games, we will revisit this debate and then this will be answered. But Hudler is in NO WAY more valuable than 90% of the players that played on this team from 02' up until last year. He is one dimensional, does not fight for the puck in the corner or in front of the net. He doesn't follow the play after he takes a shot on net, he leans into a slapshot and if it doesn't go in, he is already peeling back away from the play. He held Ken Holland and the Wings hostage when he refused a $3.5M contract and filed for arbitration only to get awarded a $2.8M contract then bolt to Russia after thumbing his nose to the Wings organization. He thougth he was bigger than the organization because he tallied 57 points? REALLY? This team has no room for players like that and I am more than happy to see him leave. This is also why Franzen is crap. He cannot stay motivated and gts bored during the season? You either give 100% or take a hike. Kirk Maltby, Darren Helm, Kris Draper, these guys never made the all-star dollars, but dollar for dollar they out-perform(ed) and are 100X more valuable to the success of this team than Hudler and Franzen ever were or ever will be...

I will take Cleary over Hudler for sure! He is definately more valuable than Hudler! I'd take a bottom 6 of 3 Cleary's and 3 Maltby's over a whole team of Hudler's...

Cleary is no better than a 3rd liner. He is very valuable on this team on the 3rd line, but given 2nd or 1st line minutes he sucks. He has proven that the last couple of seasons. He was stinking it up all last year until Babcock put him on the 3rd line with Helm. I know he is in your sig and you have a huge crush on him and he is your fav, but he doesn't hold a candle to Malbty's importance to this team when he played. Hudler should not even be mentioned in this thread, thats how important he was to this team... Whats next, Datsyuk is indeed VERY important to this team, but are you going to tell us all that he is more valuable than Fedorov was? That is what you are saying about Cleary, that he is just as valuable as Maltby ever was and that is bullcrud. Again....Hudler isn't, wasn't or (Thank God) will never be as valuable Red Wing player!

TWICE since 2002 Kirk Maltby has scored 14 goals amongst 37 and 33 points respectively as a 4th line grinder! We've all seen what Hudler can do on a 4th line...crap. Give me 6 guys that can put in 14 goals and 35 points from the bottom 6 PLUS have the defensive ability of Maltby over anything Hudler hsa done or still does in his career... you guys are smoking crack.

For all of you idiots who think Hudler could EVER replace what Maltby meant to this team.... Cleary doesn't come near Maltby either! Show me Hudler have a MVP shift like this and I will drink the kool aid. Oh wait, Hudler would never have a shift like this...

Wow! Really? Hudler was nowhere near as good defensively! Picture Hudler on the Grind Line!

I cannot believe nobody put Fedorov or CuJo on their lists....Hudler doen't belong ANYWHERE on that list! Fedorov lead the team in points with 83 in that one season, Hudler has 127 in SEVEN seasons... I mention CuJo because he did win 34 games and even if they did get swept in the first round, he still only had a 2.08 GAA for the playoffs. If the Wings cannot score more than 2 goals a game, they usually do not win...also how valuable was Manny during the whole Cujo/Hasek debacle? 23 wins followed the next year by 37 (too bad he did choke in the playoffs...) All three of these guys should make that list above Hudler and with the exception of one magical playoff year, Franzine doesn't deserve to be ranked that high, he is WELL below the MVP status of Filppula! No Maltby? So Hudler was more valuable than Maltby? Hopefully this was an oversight...

Point is and was, 2002's Cup was not bought buy Illitch, no more or less than 2008. UFA's in both years played significant roles and had big, clutch goals for them. The fact that Kip said the Illtich bought the Cup in 2002 is what got us going on the UFA discussion. Niether Cup was won directly because of the UFA acquistions, but because of the core drafted and acquired through trades. The UFA's made significant contributions and had cutch goals. But you can say that for every team that wins it every year. Miami Heat perfect example of a team "buying" and chamionship. Now if Hull and Robiataille would have come in and lead the team in scoring in the season and playoffs and Olausson was the second coming of Lidstrom that year, then maybe he'd have a bit of a point, but even then, this team was already built before the UFA's via the draft and trades from previous and far previous season's. Nothing was "bought." an example of Illtich trying to buy a Cup would be when he signed CuJo and Hatcher to ungodly contracts (at the time.) We see how that worked out. Even though Hatch got hurt and CuJo played very VERY well, it still didn't get us the Cup...

Got 65 out of 76... missed: Ellis, Mowers, Langfeld, Hartigan, SMITH, Ritola, Bootland, Norton, Hussey, Newbury & Stafford. Nearly forgot about Markov and Leino....WTF when did Mark Mowers play 46 games? Did I miss a season or two? For some reason I remembered Don MacLean...maybe the name MacLean popped in my head because of Paul MacLan, but it was there! LOL!

No, its not that easy, but if not for Hasek, they would be down more than 1-0. Luc's goal could've easily been anyone else along with Olausson's. My point is, the 33 points those three put in that playoff means nothing if not for Hasek. My point was, it was more important of a move to trade for Hasek than to sign the UFA's, by saying Detroit bought the Cup he was pretty much saying if Holland doesn't sign those UFA's Detroit doesn't win the Cup. I believe that to be wrong. Luc's 9 points and Olausson's 6 points (albeit a couple of huge important points) could have been score by someone else... He says 2008 was a team built to win the Cup because less UFA's scored points, but you bring up Luc's and Freddie's goals, how many huge goals did Sammy have in 2008? I think 3 of his 5 goals came in one game, so he was just as valuable a UFA in 08 as Robitaille was in 02, if not more valuable, yet he still argues that 02 was bought. Bottom line is none of Detroit's Cups were bought. They were teams built and pieces added. A team that buys a championship buys the top UFA's and those UFA's go on to lead the team in points and are the reason said team wins....ala Miami Heat. Each of Detroit 4 recent Cups were won by a core built through the draft and via trades, supplemented by a couple of UFA signings that just happen to fit right into the cog...

Also, Kip, I agree Z was invaluable in 2008, but that was 4 years and a bad back ago. He is delining and cannot play like he used too. He would make a great leader and would get consideration only after about 20 other players (both FWD and D) were nabbed up before him...Honestly thinking about it, if I could have a first line of Ovie-Dats-Malkin then I would be very happy signing Z to center the 2nd line. Now I know that would be a very expensive first line, but I am sure they would be some of those players who would consider lower pay to play together...I would also try to land one of Suter/Weber before Kronwall. I also like Hedman better, but Kronwall would come in as 3rd choice. Also Howard would be my 3rd choice for a starter behind Miller and Thomas. Players that would NOT be back for sure: Franzen, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Emmerton, Holmstrom, Quincey, Ericsson, Kindl. Those guys wouldn't even get a call from me.