LeftWinger

Detroit...

On my make a wish team its the line combo of Morrow-Helm-Bertuzzi... ...but in reality it will be Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi, which, when healthy was a pretty good 3rd line. Either way, I think if they sign Parise, he goes to the 3rd, with (hopefully) Nyquist taking a spot on the 2nd with Z and Val...

Freep Article today says if Lidstrom comes back he may bring Holmstrom with him. ...and here we go. Nick and Homer re-sign, for whatever they want because Holland rewards loyalty instead of according to waning talent. Homer should retire and Lidstrom should tell Holland he will play one more year for a salary of whatever it takes to make this team super again... http://www.freep.com/article/20120426/SPORTS05/204260576/red-wings-nicklas-lidstrom-tomas-holmstrom

Except Franzen's jersey would have a C-

ah yes, but unlike the song, we WILL get fooled again. All the "inside talk" about Wings having the track on Parise and making him and Suter their number 1 priorities...we will get overexcited only to be let down yet again... Change it had to come, We knew it all along, We were liberated from the Wings fall that's all, But the Team looks just the same And history ain't changed And Ken Holland Likes His Team The way it is! Just like yesterday And I'll get on my knees and pray We've ALL been fooled again!

Hijack a thread asking what we think Holland should do this offseason, by saying Holland should trade Franzen this offseason? That's what you call a hijack? You probably believe a man in cave planned 9/11 too... EDIT: Not like saying what I think Holland should do is off subject, but okay... ...anyhow, for the right player, yes, trade Franzen. It's just seems some "Realists" have a differing opinion of Franzen's worth and nobody else's opinion matters if they disagree. It's obvious I would not miss Franzen, but its not like he doesn't disappear half the season anyway. But I know he won't be traded...

I am just tired of his disappearing act. I guess if they actually land Parise and Franzen still nets 30 goals, it'll be ok, but I really need him to convince me he is for real again, especially come playoff time. I know he isn't really worried about what I think personally, but I would hope that he does care what his fans think about him, good or bad...he already said he doesn't care too much about the regular season. I really hope this changes, because I know (despite me trading him all over the forum) he will be a Red Wing next year and beyond and I hope he changes back into pre-serious contract Franzen...

Hey it worked with Hull...he mentioned more than once that he was impressed with the fact that Yzerman and Shanahan both tooks cuts (actually they deferred salary) in order to sign him... I wish Lids would tell Holland that he will sign for "whatever it takes" to get Suter AND Parise here...

Ya, I agree, but I don't think trading Filppula alone is going to get Detroit a great player, the other side of the sword is if Franzen is added in, then you would expect someone of Nash's or Perry's caliber in return...dunno, just keep them both and hope Franzen decides he wants to actually play someday.

...only let Quincey walk if Lidstrom re-signs, if he retires, you gotta sign Quincey , but ya not worth $3.5M, give him 5yrs @ $3M. I am re-signing Abby at a small raise. The rest I agree with you. No issues here, just use him as an injury call up along with Tatar. I can live without Cleary and Kindl, but I am trading Franzen as well. Plus I think Bertuzzi is going to excel on the 3rd line. Eaves is fine with me as well for the 3rd or 4th. I am also trading Mursak, he'll need to pass waivers to be sent up and down and we have two or three others that can fill his role on the team that don't have to pass waivers when sent back down. Agree, except for Mursak as explained above... I agree with these signing's except I think Lidstrom should retire or tell Kenny he will sign for whatever it takes to ice a winner...I think Helm is around $1.2M though and he needs to be signed for at least 5 years, same goes for Suter and Parise, they should be 10 year deals. Semin should be 1 or 2 to see how he works out, but I think he will do great with Datsyuk.

That is just it, he has some weird fixation on not offending his "loyal" players...he will tell Zach that noone can make more than Zetterberg (or Datsyuk, whichever one is making the most) and then Parise will go elsewhere because someone else will offer him $8M plus. I think Holland should offer Parise one of those 10 year contracts worth between $7M and $8M per. But he will worry too much about what Lidstrom will want to do and give him whatever he wants, then he will worry too much about what Datsyuk wants when his contract is up...Datsyuk ain't signing anywhere else but here, I fricking hope Holland shows his balls this summer and lives up to his "Best GM in the NHL" moniker...

Hollands problem is, he likes this team. He refuses to ditch certain players who haven't shown up that last few playoffs. He rewards veterans with contract just because they were/are loyal to him. He let's Nick Lidstrom tell HIM what he wants to make. He is still waiting for "playoff Franzen" to show up and he still believes that UFA's will flock to Detroit, just because of their history PLUS they will more than welcome accepting 1/3 less salary for that same reason... ..all this talk and all these threads about what will/should happen, realistic or not, I just don't think Holland is capable of rebuilding this team. I have a strange feeling that Scotty was the one to woo Hossa here in 08-09, plus he probably was the one to orchestrate the Hasek deal in 01-02. I have yet to see Holland make a huge impact signing or trade on his own. If he gets one or both of Suter and Parise, I will start singing his praises, but I just have a feeling that he will low-ball both of them and try telling them, "Hey, we're Hockeytown, it's your honor to be contacted by me and to be here..." (exaggerating of course, but I realistically won't be surprised if noone of any impact comes here via UFA or trade...and that is sad, because he is ruining my love for the best sport and team in the world...)

If we are talking about Filppula, what about packaging him and Franzen to Anaheim for Perry? Would that be enough? Would you have to throw in Mursak? I am all for ANY trade getting Franzen the "F" out of Detroit... Geesh, where's "The Realist" when you need him to tell me what's gonna happen and what would work and not be over or under payment? (for the record, I am not advocating trading Filppula, but if a package gets someone like Perry or Nash in return, then ok)

You showed me....ooooo scary. My "master plan" as you put it, includes your realistic signing of Parise, but I guess if none of it is going to happen, then your plan isnt so realistic afterall... Basically everything everyone is talking about here is hopes and fantasy, including yours. Agree to disagree, you hold Franzen more valuable than I do. He has broke his last straw with me, how many more years of his asinine contract until he breaks you? Also I did agree that Franzen may be a bit overpayment, but so was a 1st for.Quincey, so Holland has overpaid before....but you are just too focused on cutting someone down for wanting lazy players out and hard workers in, for wanting change. Lets all just hope for a better team this october than the one that stunk up the ice since march.

This we do agree upon! I have never like Kindl, even on draft day. I list him as my 7th defenseman only because at his pay and experience, not many other #7's out there that are worth it. It's pretty sad that he turned out to be a wasted draft pick. But until recently I have always second guessed Holland's choices at the table, none moreso than Kindl. For a long time, he seemed fixated on mid-size European Defensemen like he was trying to find the next Lidstrom or maybe still trying to replace Vladdy. He has done pretty well in the 3rd and later, because his scouts are always finding him that obscure talent and he knows when he wants to select them, but he always seems to falter when it comes to that first round pick. ( I do like the Sheahan pick) That is why I shutter at the thought if he ever had the #1 pick overall... Earlier I mentioned that I would've loved for Holland to sign free agent player Jeremy Welsh out of Union. He signed an EL contract with Carolina so I figured that was over. Turns out, Welsh only signed a deal that lasted until the end of the season. He is a RFA this July 1st. I would love to see this kid signed to shore up GR and eventually make the jump. He truly is a diamond in the rough. He is going to turn some heads one day soon in the NHL...

IMO, I think Holland does go after Parise and Suter. He re-signs Hudler, Abby, Helm, Quincey and gives Lidstrom all the time and money he wants. He is fine with Howard and MacDonald in net and loses Stuart to UFA. Holmstrom retires. Smith and Nyquist are brought up permanently. If for some reason Holland loses one or both Parise and Suter then this team is in hot s*** and he should be ready for everyone calling for his head... It may work out if he lands both Parise and Suter, but what the odds? ANd if the Wings go into next season with only Smith and Nyquist as newcomers? Oh boy... This would be a nice roster...I would be happy with this and give Kenny his credit due. I don't NEED Franzenlina traded, he may prove useful 2nd or 3rd line, I would just LIKE to see him gone. +10 for not having Hudler on your team!

I agree, I just hope it's not more than $3M per season. He should get a raise, but a small cut isn't too insulting, especially if it long term. If Lids does come back, Holland needs to cut salary wherever he can so he can make a serious run for Parise and Suter. I still would love to see a strong goalie come in to push Jimmy. Conklin and Mac aren't good enough to give Jimmy a challenge. I think Jimmy needs a challenge to take that next step...

Ya, I don't know what I am talking about just because I think Morrow would be a good fit here. Were you one of the .001% who said "playoff franzen" would not show up? Was I wrong when I said at the deadline that St. Louis AND Nashville would pass up the Wings and they could possibly finish 6th? Gee...I guess I didn't know anything then either... Oh, but you are a realist, lets show everyone your reality, make a thread saying I believe the Wings need a change and they will sign one of these 900 players I listed. Dude, your opinion is yours, you think Franzen is more valuable than I do, does that mean you don't know what you are talking about? No, does it mean I don't? No. It just means we have differing opinions. You are happy with Franzen's mediocre lazy output and two years of playoff ineptness. That is fine, that's your opinion. You seem to think that you are the first one to mention Parise when he has been talked about all season long. Just because someone has a differing opinion, doesn't make it wrong or irrational...you are most likely right about franzen not being traded, but you aren't the only one who knows this. I am just saying he needs to go, he sucks, and he is lazy and let his team down this playoff. Again, my opinion, doesn't mean it's wrong or right, just like yours. So come down off your high horse and take this forum as what it is....BTW, I see you got tons of replies in your "reality" thread. Even Blueadams got more than you in his...

Were you not around last season? Wisniewski to Columbus, Ehrhoff to the Isle, then to the Sabres just to name a few UFA's who's rights were traded just prior to July 1st. So ya, if he wasn't stuck going only to a California team, there may have been some interest in his "rights."

Ya,I went back through your original post, sorry for my confusion. I still think it will be a mistake to sign Hudler, and then I added that I think Olli wouldn't be good here. He floats more than Franzen... Funny thing is, you know when you say to yourself "I have a weird feeling about this" and then all of a sudden it happens? That may be that voice in your head...God I hope you are wrong!!! On the other hand, I do like your lineup, especially without Hudler, but I don't like this team with Franzen anymore...but if noone will take him, I guess he stays. Worried about Lids though, it may be over...

We love ya Blue, but not another "REALIST" thread. We already have someone telling us how our scenarios are junk and we don't do homework. He was so passionate about how much of a realist he is that he started his own thread. It seems that changes to this team are just all junk to him. He will come in here, pick apart your ideas, call it fantasy, explain why the Wings in it current status is great, Franzenlina is still the best sniper in the league and that nobody can take his place. All the while ignoring the fact that everyone is mentioning Parise, then bringing up Parise like he was the only "realist" to suggest Zach become a Red Wing.... Also, you mention Hudler will be re-signed, but at $3M+ it wold better to let him walk. It would be a mistake if he did re-sign here. Also, if you watched the same Lidstrom we all watched, then you should agree that he needs to retire. If he cannot heal correctly and it affects his game that much, then he is done. No offense to him, not being negative, but we don't need a Lidstrom that isn't even playing like he is a human, let alone super-human... I also think Cleary and Mursak (if not Emmerton too) should be shopped around. But that is just my opinion and there are some good arguments for trading them and keeping them. Also, you say Mursak and Emmerton will start in GR, they'd have to pass through waivers to do so, may as well try to get a couple of draft picks for them...BTW Olie would be bad here...

I agree, and that will probably be the issue. It would be great if all three wanted or had room for him, but if Anaheim is the only one that has room or wants him, then we aren't gonna get anything and he will just leave as a UFA. The idea was IF all three teams were interested there may be a little competition for his rights, but I do see what you are pointing out and totally agree, Anaheim wont give up jack if they know LA or SJ aren't interested. Not unless it's a package blockbuster than includes some other names being exchanged along with Stuart... ...stranger things have happened and contrary to some, that is in fact a reality.

as much as I ***** and complain about him, I still have to go with Holland. I think Yzerman just needs more experience before he can come home. Of course this off season could be a defining moment in Hollands career. He faces a huge challenge with Lids retiring, Stuart leaving and coming off three not so great playoff performance by a bunch of stale players. I do think he has made huge mistakes in some of his signings and missing the boat on some others. Franzen needs to be traded, but who will take on that awful contract? Bertuzzi should have been left alone to retire or go elsewhere and he paid too much for Quincey. I liked the White signing even though he struggled without Lidstrom and I think Kronwall being wrapped up for a long time is a great move. I have been liking his drafting recently, trying to go towards a bigger, stronger North American style player along with some small skill instead of just drafting the small skilled Euro-type. I am hoping he is able to pick up Dekeyser next season after school. I am also upset he didn't put a play in for Jeremy Welsh, or if he did, he didn't sell this organization good enough to him. I cant stand Holland on most nights, but if I am choosing today, its Holland for sure. If Holland doesn't make the right changes this year and seriously impact this teams ineptness to sustain competitiveness for 60 minutes, then I am leaning towards something new, soon, if I am Mr. Ilitch.

I didn't say that Franzenlina would be traded for sure, the fact is, he is the poster boy of whats wrong with this team right now, and should be dealt. You are right that it would be super hard to dump his God awful contract on someone. Also, if you don't think Stuart is more valuable than Quincey, then I cannot even begin to debate that with you. BTW, Quincey is NOT signed, he is a RFA and if he re-signs for more than $3M it will be wasted cap space. $3M for 5 years sounds about the max for him. I wasn't saying that Stuart WOULD bring back a 1st rounder, but the fact that Quincey cost one, coupled with the idea that maybe all three teams in California may want him, it should bring back more than a "lower round" draft pick. I did say Clowe was a stretch too...

Ya....your first ever GM job and it in Montreal? No thanks! Talk about a pressure cooker...Nill will be a GM somewhere, someday, but ANYONE, let alone Nill, wold be crazy to take your first job as GM in Montreal...One failure and he would be stoned to death...