LeftWinger

Cant win the Cup every year....I would take the guaranteed WCF right now with the way they're playing today....

Joke? Good one, I like the thread dedicated to all the jumpers...but to all the ones who seriously think this is over, again 1995-96 Wings started out 5-5-1. Finished the season 62-13-7. If they go 5-6 or worse, then Holland will attend to the issues...

This team is what it is....I am all for a trade to shake it up, but right now, not many trade-able assets are playing very good to get us a sniper in return. Not unless you are willing to bid adieu to Franzen.

Well, at least Lidstrom said what he felt about the non-call. Won't change the outcome, but refs blew the play, period.

Nah, this team doesn't have problems, they are just getting ready for the jump to the Eastern Conference were the teams are as good...

Oh, I definitely agree with you, I was just saying how it USED to be a battle for the puck prior to this year. This year the refs have been calling that same play interference all the time. Should have been interference.

as I referenced earlier, that play has been called interference all season long....prior to this year it was a battle for the puck, but this year they have been calling the penalty. Nice time to go back to the old rule refs...oh well, we need to score more goals! 5 in 5 is horrible.

Tonight you can honestly say, Red Wings got screwed by the refs. The hit on Kronner is being called interference this year, well except tonight. 8 penalties to 3? PLUS a 5 on 3? Wings definitely got screwed tonight. Never fear guys! In 1995-96 the Wings started the season 5-5-1 and wound up at 62-13-7. BUT, this lack of scoring is becoming a bit concerning...5 goals in 5 games is not gonna cut it. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland makes a few phone calls just to see what's out there... Wings lose a 6th in a row, you can bet numbers will be dialed...

Ugh, I still don't like that second line and swap Helm and Abby.

Ya, I agree with you on the second line, but I was just going with what folks are saying Babcock said about the second line. How good would Parise look in there?

Babcock doesn't like him....

Hudler scratched? Uh..... ANyhow, I guess Babcock is serious about shaking something up, I sure wish we'd see Commodore soon. Are we sure that Franzen is gonna center Gus and Bert? Seems like a lot of scorers... ...I'd like to see the Eaves - Helm - Cleary line reunited and put Filppula on Datsyuk's wing. I guess if we are going with that Franzen line then lets see how these would work... Flip - Dats- Zetts Gus - Franz - Bert Eaves - Helm - Cleary Miller - Abby - Holmer

Oh, believe me, I would love to dump Ericsson first, but he has that NTC, so I would have an easier job trading Kindl. But I am assuming that Ericsson would have to approve any trade, if something comes my way that he would approve, then he would go before Kindl. Now all of this doesnt matter if Commie doesnt bounce back.

Kindl is collateral damage. He is traded. How many goals have the Wings given up the last four? If that doesnt change, then change will be needed.... Apparently Kindl's upside has show alot the last four games. IF that trend continues throughout the year, Kindl becomes very expendable, changes will need to be made. Now if you read, I said if Commie does his job and earns a re-sign, but if he doesnt then Kindl can stay. If Commie makes an impact, I choose him over Kindl.

I can live with this signing...who am I kidding, I have no say in it, so I have no choice! Anyhow, this is a far better deal than Ericsson's, at least Kronwall has proven his worth and since he isn't gonna get any better (hopefully not quick decline either) $4.75 is a steal. I say offer Stuart $5M and then go hard after Suter this off season! With a top 4 of Suter/Stuart/Kronwall/White, Lidstrom can finally retire and the impact won't be so bad... If Commodore plays his role completely and Smith one year older, I am liking this lineup: Suter - White Kronwall - Stuart Commodore - Ericsson Smith

The bottom line? I've said it a few times in the last few days, this team is what it is. You have seen to peak of every core player on this team, noone is getting any better. You have a system full of mediocre players with "potential" and that is all. But this is the product you are going to get for being so good for so long. Holland has done the best he can with the picks he is given, but when you are consistently this good, even your first round picks are pretty much just high second rounders, and that is what we are seeing. This team will bounce back, its not like they are garbage. They are what they are, but what they are is a good team. We've seen it, they'll get back to winning this year, make the playoffs and everyone here will enjoy the season. But if you guys expect the likes of Franzen or Hudler or Filppula, etc... to "grow" and become something that we haven't already seen, then you are in for a huge disappointment. The only player on this team that is going to "grow" at all is Emmerton and that is because we haven't seen him for an entire season yet. The rest of the team, including Datsyuk and Howard, will not all of a sudden become anything more than they have already been, and that is what it is. Not saying they are bad, or even remotely bad. They are stars in their own right, but they have peaked already. You cannot ask Howard to win 37 games every year, it just won't happen. Datsyuk cannot be a top 5 scorer and top 5 defender every year. This team screams of change soon. Abandon ship? No. But within the next 2-3 years if we have the same team, you will see some dark years I do believe...

The term REDiculuos is an adjective used when describing yet another great season by the best team in the NHL! "Geez, that team is so good they're REDiculous!" "Did you see that REDiculous game by the Wings last night? Wow what a team!"

Tomorrow twelve o'clock high.

Yes, you are correct, forgive me if I referred to him with us in 08, I am not sure if I did, but in 2009, he was our sniper, he fell off in the playoffs, but if it weren't for a couple of circumstances, the Wings would've won the Cup in 09 as well. There is that whole Bettman circumventing the rules thing that would've had Malkin sitting out in game three all but guaranteeing us a 3-0 lead in the series. But even with that, there were those couple of goal posts in game 7 that if buried would've won it for us too. But, since then we haven't come close to having a pure sniper to play with Datsyuk. Hudler, Franzen or Cleary are not 1st line worthy in that regard. But what else do we have....

So, waiving Brunnstrom allows Commodore to return to the roster AND keep Smith here to serve more of his suspension, then when Smith gets sent back down, it opens a roster spot to promote a Griffin (with waiver exemptions) until Mursak returns from injury, thus when the time comes, nobody needs to get waived. Makes sense to me. Waive Brunnstrom now before he has had a chance to impress other GM's around the league, so it is less apt that he will be claimed rather than let him play here and get better and risk losing him for sure when Mursak comes back. I like the move. If he gets claimed now, that's the risk, but it would be riskier to waive him in December if he has 10-15 points. +1,000,000 to Holland.

White is a different type of player than this team is. Ya, he has slipped a bit since the 5-0 start, but liek with any losing streak, you are going to find things to nit pick about with everyone. White not an exception. I hope when Commodore comes back, this team has already turned it back around because then people are gonna start blaming him as well. I think White and Commodore is what this team needs on defense and with the possiblity of Smith being ready next season and the hopeful pursuit of Suter this defense is gonna be a whole lot different next year than in years past. I hope Ericsson changes, but I doubt it and if not, I'm trading him. I'm re-signing Kronwall, Stuart and Commodore as well and if I can, I am trading Kindl Suter - Kronwall White - Stuart Smith - Commodore

I too am not saying anyone "sucks" but like I said in the GDT from yesterday, we have seen these players peak, almost all of them. Cleary is always one of the "teams" best players, but he is never one of the "leagues" best players. Cleary (amongst others) has peaked and will not get any better than we have already seen. Abdelkader and Helm are what they are, and I don't see them getting any better, not that they are bad, but they are what they are. I said given the exception of Emmerton, this whole team has played their best season already and will continue on a downward slope or remain similar. Our team is what it is and is not getting any better, if not, slowly declining. Meanwhile most if not all other teams are making moves, bringing up young-in's and ARE getting better and better while Detroit sits stagnant. I do think Holland has tried to change the makeup of his a team a bit with signing Commodore and White along with Emmerton and Mursak (before injury) having a roster spot, but until something is done in the top 6, which I mean getting a legit top line sniper somehow, this team will remain stuck in this rut that we have grown used to since the 2008 win. I think Holland made mistakes by giving Franzen such a long contract, signing Ericsson, keeping Hudler (although nobody wanted him) and I think it will be a mistake if doesn't seriously, SERIOUSLY pursue one of Weber, Burns or Suter AND if not acquired at or before the deadline a LEGIT super scorer to put on Datsyuk's line and possibly another one for Zetterberg. Whether or not he will be able to do so, we'll see, but this is what the team needs. I am not calling for heads, but if this team is gonna get better, there has to be change. This team is good enough to make the playoffs, but they are gonna get any better than what we've seen. edit: I had to edit because I didn't know Burns signed a life long deal and Weber is still a RFA after this season...how is that?

Uh.... That's not a knock on your suggestion, quite the opposite. I just remember all the opposition I had on here in the season following Detroit's loss in game 7 of the SCF in 2009 (ya, the one when Hudler was coming back to return us to the promised land) I was on the soapbox begging and begging to sign Travis Moen and Manny Malhotra, yet I got slammed by a number of folks, and got slammed even more when those signed for $1.5M per year in Montreal and San Jose respectively and Holland opted for signing Bertuzzi and Jason Williams for $1.5M each. I was ok with Bertuzzi, but hated, HATED the return of Hudler and the Williams signing. I voiced my opinion of Holland at the time and I think I amassed a -101 that off season. What made matters worse is Malhotra contacted the Wings wanting to sign here, but the team wasn't interested. In the matter of point production, these two really didn't outscore Holland's options or Hudler, but I still think this team would've been a better team and much harder to play against with Moen/Malhotra rather than Williams/Hudler. I do remember that offseason I was suggesting trading Hudler's rights at the draft to try to move up. Could you imagine this lineup with Moen, Malhotra and Bertuzzi instead of Williams, Hudler, Bertuzzi? ...I still think they would've been the better choices, I don't think we lose to San Jose neither time, and quite possibly had a return to the Cup glory, but we'll never know...

Well, the issue is, there isn't much Babcock can do with a full healthy roster without some kind of trade. It's way too early to start talking major shake-up, so he just has to work with what he has, which at the moment isn't (or doesn't seem) too much. The Wings miss that pure sniper on the first line. As I stated earlier, Franzen has peaked and it seems to me is on a downward slope. He has been put on the first line, with no results, Hudler, Cleary, Holmstrom, they have all been on the top line, and they are good players in their own regard, but none of them are that pure sniper that I believe the Red Wings need. Who that player is? I don't know. Is he in our organization? I don't think so, unless someone from GRR is going to get a shot and just take the NHL by storm, but I don't think we have that player in the organization. Marion Hossa was and still is the closest we have had, but even he lacked something and that is part of the reason Holland chose Franzen over Hossa in 2009, but even still, Franzen has yet to be the playoff beast he was in 2008, and here we are nearly 4 years later. He has peaked, its obvious. How do we go about getting that Sniper? Your guess is as good as mine. Holland isn't gonna trade anyone named Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and pretty much anyone else on our NHL roster will NOT get us that sniper, it will have to be a team looking to rebuild and looking to cut salary and it will cost us a bit of our future. But who and how much of our future? I don't know. I maintain that the Wings need 3 scoring lines with 3 scoring threats along with a 4th line comprised of Helm and Abdelkader and Eaves. (Eaves seems to be the better of him and Miller, if I had to choose.) Like I said up higher, I am not calling for heads or saying they suck, but right now, someone needs to step up and shake the lineup up, I got a feeling if they fall below .500, Holland will start the phones... ...this game was unacceptable.

Now it's a problem. Problem is, the players on this team are what they are. They have peaked in their career's (excluding Emmerton since he hasn't played enough.) Datsyuk, Zetterberg, they are 60-80 pt. players and that is all. Franzen has peaked as a player and will not get any better than what he has been in the past, and so has everyone else. Abdelkader is what he is, and Helm is just a younger Draper. Bertuzzi still hasn't been the same since the "incident" and Holmstrom is Holmstrom, they are both past their prime. I am beginning to believe we have seen the best of our "core" players in season's past and that is all we are gonna get. I don't see Filppula getting any better than what he has been, the same goes for Cleary. Kronwall hasn't been the same hitter virtually since the Havlat hit in the playoffs, well at least not as consistent of a hitter (he has had a couple of good ones.) Hudler, well....bleh. I am beginning to believe you guys about Miller and Eaves, they are basically the same player and they aren't gonna be too much more than 4th line grinders/penalty killers and that is that. I am not calling for heads to roll or saying our guys suck, they just are what they are and we have seen their best and it just seems like (including the last couple of season's) they aren't gonna get any better than that. Unfortunately, the teams around us ARE getting better. This is the flip side of being so good for so long, lower draft picks (as good as Holland has done with them) just don't compare to top 10 draft picks. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade the last 20 years for a team full of OVechkin's and Stamkos' but we as Wings fans have to come to the realization that this is all we are going to get, and it isn't gonna get much, if any, better. Do I think they will be fine throughout the rest of the season? Of course. I do think they will make the playoffs and possibly get to the 2nd or even 3rd round, but I do believe we have already seen the best of Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Franzen and Kronwall.