LeftWinger

I agree, there is nothing wrong with Mursak having to earn that spot. Emmerton may come in and do the right things and earn that spot. Can the Wings have 14 forwards and 7 defensmen? If so then Mursak/Emmerton/Miller can all rotate that 12th spot...

Ok, so if nothing presents itself, it would be fine for Holland to stand pat (outside of dumping hudler's salary) until something does present itself. But we are all pretty much in agreement that adding the players in the molds of, but not necessarily the exact names, Wisniewski, Pitkanen & Jokenin all while letting Ericsson/Draper/Salei walk and re-signing Lidstrom, Eaves and Miller. Thus allowing Mursak and Emmerton to battle it out for the last roster spot. Sounds good to me, and it still leaves plenty of Cap space for a "sniper" at the trade deadline (if needed) and a Suter next July.... sidenote: we haven't discussed a backup goalie, but thats pretty much a non-issue with what is available out there for less than $1M...

I hear ya! But if Holland dumped Hudler's salary and had the nearly $25M to spend (assuming the cap goes up as much) that would be a ton of cash to spend PLUS alot of NEW faces on the team. Just because he has the cash, doesn't mean I want to see him overpay the likes of Ericsson/Miller/Eaves/Lidstrom. This goes back to the outside chance Holland lands a Brad Richards. Using your idea of paying a premium, Holland could essential give Ericsson a 1 year $2.5M, Lidstrom 1 year $6.0M, Wiz $4M and as long as he keeps Miller/Eaves under $2M combined he could offer Richards a 1 year $9M contract. Then after winning the Cup next year, he could talk about keeping Richards/Wiz longer and if Ericsson improves, maybe a longer deal at a smaller Cap hit and then if available try to land a Suter. That scenario would pretty much give up on Kindl and make Smith your 7th for 2012-2013. Can't be spending too much of the cap though, because 2013-2014 is Datsyuk last year of his contract and will be looking to sign an "End of Career" contract extension and I am sure Holland will give him what he wants... (disclaimer: (directed towards Konnan) I am in no way suggesting Richards will be a Red Wing next year, just suggesting that if Holland wants a Sniper via UFA, he'll can very well offer him $9M for one season.)) Of course Dallas has $2M more available cap space than Holland does and will no doubt want to keep Richards very badly! Which leads me back to my question, other than Richards, is there a "Hossa" out there to be snagged up?

I see your points on all of that. Question is, is there a "Hossa" out there for Holland to sign/acquire, or are the likes Tanguay/Jokinen pretty much the closest thing the secondary scoring you are referring to? Either of which I would welcome here and would probably score 30+ goals playing with Dats and Flip on the first line... but I really cannot find a Hossa-type UFA out there (outside of Richards) so someone would have to be traded for and in reality who would someone want off our team in exchange for their pure sniper without raping our prospects?

Makes sense, but having $11M available, if someone out of the top 6 were to go down again for an extended period, there is always a trade option. I am just saying it is possible that Mursak steps in and out performs Hudler's offense and having MIller and Eaves full time could only help really. I really didn't make line combos, just added players on the capgeek calculator. I think Z, Bert and Franz play great together as well as Fil, Dats and Homer. Cleary with Helm and Eaves sounds like a nice line too. I do agree though, a nice top 6 guy would be very nice, but that would pretty much mean you either say goodbye to Miller or risk Emmerton to waivers(which may not be that big of loss IF someone claimed him.) IMO, Miller has earned more than a 13th forward position, but I am not Holland or Babcock, so who knows. I know they have high hopes or Mursak, so they may try him at different lines to see who he gels with before they designate him to the 13th spot... (then again I think they had the same hopes for Leino and he never really gelled with anyone...)

agreed, I think if Holland added Wiz or even if he wanted a Jovo type player that would at least make Kindl battle Smith for the 6th spot... I am all for another top 6 guy, but is it absolutely needed considering where the Wings were offensively last season? Mursak is at least equal to Hudler and giving Miller/Eaves full time jobs can only be a positive thing... the 13th forward can be anyone really, I just threw Emmerton there because I think he is out of options to Grand Rapids...

do we really NEED a top 6 forward? I do not know exactly where the Wings finished in offensive numbers last season but losing Hudler and Modano and replacing them with Mursak and Emmerton (along with gving full time jobs to Miller and Eaves) shouldn't really affect their offensinve productoin considering the top 6 wold pretty much be entact from last year... Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi, Cleary & Holmstrom...basically....

I don't see why not. Up front you really only lose Hudler, and I don't think Mursak can do any worse than Hudler did, and really, with Modano's injury I don't see Emmerton hurting us either. I do acknowledge the D is pretty green, but like I said, if you wanna add Wisniewski instead of promoting Smith, then that would cretainly be an upgrade, espeially if Wiz scores 50 plus points again, but other than that, this team should make the playoffs easily, win their division maybe, conference probably not, but come January/February Holland has $11M to acquire some high-end talent to help in the playoffs... Which part would you change? Maybe Emmerton or Ericsson...I am not sure, but I would hate for Holland to blow his "cap load" on UFA's outside the organization and not have the team gel. At least we know (with the exception of Emmerton) that this team can pay well together, well enough to make the playoffs in my opinion... That being said, I do maintain that it would be nice to acquire Jokinen up front, re-sign Lids/Miller/Eaves and sign Wiz and Pitkanen. Back-up goalie is a toss up, I just threw MacDonald in there, but as long as it's a back-up for less than $1M, because Howard will probably get 60-65 starts, and who wants to pay a goalie over a million to start less than 20 games?

So Hudler/Emmerton our 1st for rangers 1st... Do you think that would be enough to move up 10 spots? I could honestly, now that I think about it, see Holland trading Hudler and our 1st to move down to maybe a top 10 2nd round pick...especially if lets say the Thrashers or Panthers really want a certain guy that is available in Detroit's #1 spot...

Here's a scenario: Let's say the Cap goes up to about $63.5M. That'll give Holland $22.6M before he signs anyone. Let's say he trade Hudler at the draft for some more pick(s), that then makes the Cap total available $24.5M. We all have our "Wish List" and most of us know that that's all it will be is a wish list, so considering the fact that they were a very good team (offensively anyhow) in the regular season, would anyone be that upset if Holland remained 'Status Quo' and just re-signed his own UFA's? Of course excluding Draper, Modano & Salei and just allowing the younger guys to come up and play. I know the general consensus is that Smith will/should spend another season in the Griffins line-up, but what if Holland just sign's Ericcson, Smith would be getting good ice time/experience up here anyway. Anyhow, icing a similar team next season would kill two birds, it'll allow for plenty of room for a HUGE trade-line acquisition (if needed,) especially if there are some non-playoff teams with an upcoming UFA that is looking to dump him knowing they are going to lose him anyway. (ex. if Nashville is way out of it, they could do this with Suter if they feel they can't sign him anyhow.) It also saves a large amount of cap space for July 1st, 2012 which promises to have a better crop of UFA's available... Now, I am a huge Wisniewski advocate and would love to see him here, and in reality, even in this scenario they could throw $4M at him for a season and still have a lot left over for the deadline.. (which is what I am hoping. (of course you can put your Wish List d-man in place of mine.)) Anyhow, let's see how it looks with some Capgeek numbers... (please don't neg me if you don't agree, just voice your opinion, thanks!) CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR FORWARDS Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m) Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) Patrick Eaves ($1.100m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Drew Miller ($0.950m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($2.500m) Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m) Doug Janik ($0.512m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.750m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,704,544; BONUSES: $0 CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $11,795,456 ...I realize that is a very lean defensive corps, and like I said, Holland could always sign one D-Man to fill the top 6 and keep Smith in Grand Rapids. Also, I just gave some modest raises to the UFA's with the exception of Ericsson, giving consideration to the rumor he turned down $2M... I for one, hope that Holland at least adds ONE d-man from outside the organization, but I believe, up front, that this lineup cannot hurt the Wings considering all they are losing is Hudler's offense(orlack there of,) and that isn't much of a loss. But as you can see it leaves plenty of cap space for March or July...

That is fine because I would be perfectly happy with him re-signing Eaves/Miller/Lidstrom and then signing Wisniewski, Pitkanen and a reliable back up goalie. Do NOT re-sign Draper/Ericsson/Salei, trade Hudler for whatever he can bring... To me that would be a super off season... We all know any of the RFA's mentioned are pipe dreams because Holland loves to keep his draft picks now-a-days. I wouldn't be surprised though if he traded Hudler and our #1 to move up a bit if the player he wanted wasn't gonna make it to us...

I do routinely trash him, but I am not necessarily signing his praises, but I am thinking that this is one of the rare off-seasons he has tons of money to spend and, like you mentioned, the last time he had some money he scored Hossa, so I am hoping that is the key to his success, having money to spend. I will always disagree with the Williams over Malhotra signing, right hander or not, and I will complain about it all the time. How many of us still hate the Oates/MacLean for Federko/McKegney trade and how long ago was that? But I do think he can work some magic and surprise us again, especially with the cash he has, but I am far from convinced that he is the best GM out there because he got Datsyuk and Zetterberg late in the draft. Every GM out there has found at least one diamond in the later rounds of the draft, and to be fair, have made stupid first or second round picks as Holland has done as well (Yuri Butsayev, Tomek Valtonen, Jiri Hudler ) Anyhow, we had cash and landed Hossa, we have mega cash now so nothing is out of the question, albeit unlikely...

I do believe you and I are drinking the same coffee this off season. Wisniewski, Tanguay, Jokinen...trade Hudler.... I like the way you are thinking this year! I agree Marleau should go before Seto, but for some reason they love them some Marleau in San Jose...

Man I like Abdelkader and would miss him. I see you let Miller go as well. I think Lidstrom will get $6M so I am not sure the Zherdev signing could happen... but Lidstrom COULD take $5.5M or even less in order to get a better team, but it would have to be HIS idea, I am sure Holland would not insult him with a low-ball offer, especially if the Cap rises to $64.5M, PLUS if he trades Hudler's and his Cap hit away, Holland would have $25M before any UFA's were re-signed... Hell he has $18M right now and the Cap hasn't moved a bit. Add the $5.1M increase and remove Hudler's $2.9M... it's good to be a Wings fan this off season!

I really don't want to gloat too much, but I am loving all these line combos with Hudler missing and Wisniewski and Jokinen on them! While I may have not been the VERY first to put these two in some line combos or suggest their signings (I may have been with Wiz because I remember getting railed UP and DOWN when I did mention him) but it's very nice to see folks mentioning these guys more and more! It has to be noted though that pretty much ANY forward signing hinges on Hudler being traded because they would be replacing him on the roster. If Holland keeps Hudler then there is only three spots to fill with Eaves/Draper/Miller/Mursak. Of course with a Hudler trade and a Jokinen signing, there are still only three spots to fill, but I am hoping for Draper just to hang it up and let the younger guys take over. Helm is more than capable to replace Draper's contribution's 10-fold. As someone pointed out to me, the Wings were right up near the top of the league in scoring, so if Jokinen can add 30 or so playing with Dats, then that should help tremendously! Adding Wiz and another d-man (Pitkanen would be a good one) along with a REAL defensive coach (Bougher? Hitchcock? Lemaire? Dunno?) should bring us back near he top of the league in defense. Thus more than likely (red glasses warning) propelling us to another Stanley Cup Championship!

I voted to sign him, but I would like to stipulate not at the expense of Miller or Eaves. If Holland does not trade Hudler and re-signs Draper, that will be 11 forwards signed before Miller and Eaves and before Mursak comes up...so Mursak connot be sent down with passing thru waivers that means if Holland wants to keep Mursak he would have to sacrifice Eaves or Miller. Eaves plays great with Helm, so he would be the first choice, but I think Miller should be signed over Draper in this scenario. So, unless Holland dumps Hudler in a package for a defender, Draper just may have to hang em up... In all honesty, Draper, Modano should both retire and Hudler should be traded so Holland can re-sign both Miller/Eaves, keep Mursak and add a UFA to add some scoring punch in the top 6...

Yeah, but about Weber or Doughty or Richards? Honestly, I am very interested to see if he makes a trade for a defender. I don't know of any out there (of Rafi's caliber) that teams would be willing to give up to us. Not unless there is a sign and trade deal that may help us out... (funny side note: on capgeek.com the most popular searched player is Brian Rafalski)

When are teams gonna stop hiring this jack-ass? I think the ENTIRE LGW member section joins me, when I say "SLAP!!" Do NOT joke like that!

You are right, but it's fun to dream sometimes. When I mentioned Kovalchuk, I made sure I mentioned the fact that Holland wouldn't get him because of his lifetime contract, but if he had a year or two contract at his cap hit of $6.6M, it wouldn't be out of the question that Holland may try for him. Holland likes those type of players, especially with the scoring upside...and Kovalchuk would be even better playing with Datsyuk. I for one, hope for another left field shot this season! At least we DO know he has the money to spend on a left-fielder!

THIS! Like was said earlier, if he were to make an off-season avatar in 2008, GUARANTEE Marion Hossa would be on it stating that he will NOT be a Red Wing. Why don't he just let people enjoy the off season and have fun fantasizing about who they would like to see become a Red Wing. Especially now with all the available Cap space! Even though most if not all of the names people are throwing around will not be a Red Wing, but NOONE and NOTHING is out of the question with the skills and money Ken Holland has in negotiating contracts and making deals. It would be SOOO funny if one or two of these names actually become a Wing, then maybe he can make an avatar of him pulling his head out if his ass....

Don't forget to throw Hudler in there for his Huge Potential...

I think you despise Stuart as much as I do Hudler... But I agree with everything you have said prior to that... Add Wiz and another depth guy or trade or bigger name and sign wiz for the third paring with Kindl. Not sure what to do about the 7th spot if Smith is gonna stay in GRR and just see spot call-ups, maybe utilize Janik or re-sign Meech (although I think I read he was done with Detroit, wants a NHL full-time job or something...what kind of crap is that? Where does he get off wanting a NHL job!?!? )

True! But, Holland could afford him, and he would be that pure sniper Datsyuk and the Wings need. I am sure in 2008, he would've had Hossa on a similar avatar too, but Holland pulled that one out of his magic hat... just not sure what Holland thinks of the length of the contract, he already has 2 lifers and I am sure Datsyuk is gonna re-sign a lifer when his is up as well... Oh well, it is more possible than Weber coming here...

I voted sign him, especially if Holland is going to testing the trade waters for a replacement D-Man or Higher end forward. Him and Miller (re-sign him too) can rotate in and out with Mursak. Do we know if Emmerton has any options to GRR left? IF not, maybe they showcase him and Mursak in training camp/pre-season to see who wins the 13th spot and they trade the other away. Not unless Holland knows who he wants up (more than likely Mursak) and bundles Hudler/Emmerton and whatever at the draft for said player... How would Jersey like Hudler/Emmerton/Kindl and our 1st round pick for Kovalchuk and his crippling cap hit? We could afford to pick it up... Of course then that would be yet another D-Man that would have to be replaced...

Isn't the off season exciting? Especially knowing that Holland HAS to make a move or two? I still say either sign or trade for someone to play with Dastyuk as a pure scorer. Put Filppula on his line as well as it seemed they had a bit of chemistry together, move Zetterberg to line 2 with Franzen and Bertuzzi, Helm would center the 3rd line with Cleary and Eaves, then Abby can center Holmstrom and Miller, with Mursak as the 13th forward... I know everyone is posting names and line combos everywhere, but let me just say that if the Cap goes up to $64.5M, before ANY UFA's are signed, Holland has $25M available to sign/trade for players! Awesome! I know Holland wouldn't take on the long term contract, but man with that money I would love to see Kovalchuk on Dastyuk's wing next season! I am not sure Jersey would want to trade him away, unless they are looking to get out from under that contract... they only have 11 fwds, 5 D and 1 goalie signed next year and ONLY have $7M avail in cap. Even if the Cap goes up $5.1M that still isn't much to re-sign the like of Parise, Greene and Hedburg, let alone the rest of the open spots. I am pretty positive Kovalchuk would accept a trade to Detroit... of course I am pretty sure it would cost us at least a roster player AND some high end prospects/draft picks to acquire him...but WOW!