LeftWinger

Hold on a minute! Is that what Holland would say? You know if your were a fan prior to the European invasion or dont think Hudler is top 6 league wide and that he will bring us back to Stanley Cup Nirvana (becasue he is the reason we won the Cup in 2008, you know) you know nothing about the Wings and how they operate and should give evereyone tons of negatives!

Ya, I got destroyed, what are you 12? I can pick out exemtpions as well, let slook at his history of drafts: Butsayev, Fischer, Tosla, Kronwall, Grigorenko, hudler, Howard, Franzen, Kindl, Emmerton, Smith, McCollum, Ferraro. Ya, thats picking someone like McIlrath if available. The last time we had a pick even near #20. he picked Kindl, who is ONLY gettign a shot becasue he has no AHL options left (how many of you again would have rather had Latendresse?) Listen I said nothing about the skille European's being bad,I just said that qwhat Holland likes to draft, and even looking over the North AMerican players taken first recently, he likes small skilled North American's too, good on him, but that just is a even bigger indication that if McIlrath is there, he probably won't take him, I hope he does, but his history shows, that is not his type of player. If you can find where I said anything anti-Euorpean in my statement I will gladly edit it out.

Oh,I am sure he will be given his shot on the top 2 lines throughout the year, but he will not become a staple there. Hudler will be Hudler and that's it. He may put in 20 goals, but he will lose every battle in the corner and be our biggest defensive liability.

besides, I know nothing about you so yes I do know about them than I know about you (try using some English that makes sense...) Over twenty years? Wow! I guess I will take my thirty plus years and run away with my tail between my legs, do you even remember the team before there was a Lidstrom? Because I certainly remember the pre-Yzerman/Joe Louis Arena days... All I am saying is if Holland makes no changes but to add Hudler and re-sign our own RFA/UFA, this team will look like s*** and if he give Lids a penny above $4.5M, this team will have no room for trade deadline additions or even call up from GRR help...

What about a nice combo of Stamkos and Kovalchuk down in Tampa? Hmmmmmmm, interesting to see how Steve handles his first ever UFA season! Bet he outshines Holland! Think we could dump Hudler off on him?

We all know Holland will take a European born player that will stay in the minors until he either goes back home, has no more options or never really develops into a NHL caliber player. We are all smoking pipes if we actually believe Holland will draft McIlrath if available, or any other 6'4ish 220lb North American player. Holland is about small skilled Europeans and thats the bottom line. Just watch who Yzerman drafts, we'll all be wishing Holland retired!

So now your making trades? What would Holland do? So it would have been better if I had said, "I think Hudler might be traded because he sucks" instead of saying I think he should be traded because he sucks? BTW, have you even watched the business end of hockey at all? What team in their right mind would offer Holland anything more than a bag of pucks for any of those guys knowing damn well that in order to become compliant one of them is going to have to be waived? Oh, here's another shocker, there will no bidding war for Ritola from any team, so if he doesn't make the club, he will be waived and he may get claimed FOR FREE. you waiver more than a John Kerry, Barrack Obama news conference...

He's just a Hudler slappie. Hudler sucks and he doesn't want to admit it. He sees Hudler playing on the top line, like Hudler coming back from the KHL is going to be the second coming of the Messiah! DUDE, GET OFF THE HUDLER JOCKSTRAP! Hudler couldn't even make his national team for the Olympics, he is NOT GOING TO BE ON EITHER OF THE TOP TWO LINES!!!!!! He should be traded at the draft alng with our #1 to move up in order to guarantee McIlrath, that is the ONLY usefulness Hudler has to this team... Oh wait! Hudler got so much experience in the KHL, he is a leader now, he can defend, hit, play in the corners AND score 70 goals! He's gonna be our #1 line and carry us to the Stanley Cup! Oh yeah baby! So, what Holland is gonna do, is sign Lidstrom to stupid money, insist that the omnipotent hudler get more ice-time that Zetterberg and Franzen combined and not move or acquire anyone who wasn't on the roster last season... You wanna know what our roster will look like with no changes? It'll look like no playoffs or first round exit because the defense sucks, we couldn't score a goal when we needed it (not even extended 5 on 3's) and our goal-tending will be worse (no way Howard can repeat his rookie season.) Why start a thread asking what we think the roster will look like then say, well you can't make changes, you need to just keep it the same because you cannot suggest a trade or using available cap space to get a player (whoever it may be) to make this team better. He asks if I even follow this team and how it operates? I guarantee I have taken more s***s than he's seen games... I love the guys who became fans of this team somewhere around the mid 90's and think that they have been thru the wars with this organization.... Using the OP's logic, what do I think the roster will look like in 10-11? s***, with no cap space for improvement at deadline or call-ups...

for those of you who think he'll be back when Holland retires, don't bet on it. Why? Because if he turns out to be a great Hockey GM, why would Tampa let him go? The way Steve Yzerman is as a professional, he starts a job, has the most success at it and finishes where he started. Let him grow up and move out guys! He grew up in our house, he graduated with honors and got his PhD here. He wants to own his own house, he wants to build and he has perhaps the best young player already in uniform to build around in Stamkos, along with one of the best young defenders in the league in Hedman. He has over $21M available cap space and pretty much has an open checkbook, with his clout around the league, don't be surprised to see some big names moving south. I wouldn't even put it past him to try and coax Lids down there! Could Tampa be the new home for Maltby? Yzerman could throw a monkey wrench into Hollands plans this off season... I say here's to a long a happy relationship between Yzerman and Tampa, I really don't want him back anyway. Hey, does he like Hudler?

so where exactly did I ignore the context of the thread? I didn't put names down,I didn't make a wish list, I gave realistic and cost saving figures. Just because I didn't use our exact roster from last year, I ignored the context? Well, you ignored you;re own context by giving these guys raises based on what you think they will get. Helm at $1M? Please! He's only at $600,000 right now. Do you know how long it took Kris Draper to get his first million plus contract and you wanna throw it at Helm after one season here? Talk about ignoring the context, that is a pipedream. I simply put down what I think the roster will look like, who knows who will be in the UFA slots, but if Holland has any sense, it won't be Lidstrom at $5.5M and Hudler will be gone. Lilja wont be here, and both Miller and Eaves will. You sir should go back and read your original post, then look at what you wrote down. BTW, if the roster is what you wrote down and we only have $300,000 for improvement or call-ups, this team is done before Christmas....

Note to UFA players who want rasies...... Move on and Move out... If it's true Holmer's agent said that, then adios! Hudler? Trade him at the draft in order to secure Dylan McIlrath. Would also like to see Holland convince Rafalski to waive his NTC.. Holmer ($1.5) / Datsyuk ($6.7) / Franzen ($3.955) Bertuzzi ($1.5) / Zett ($6.083) / Filppula ($3.0) Abdelkader ($0.900) / Cleary ($2.800) / Draper ($1.583) Darren Helm ($0.750) / Miller ($0.600) / UFA ($?.???) Eaves ($0.550)Ritola (if he can make the team, just because he is out of options doesn't guarantee him a spot) Lidstrom ($4.5M) / Rafalski ($6.0) Stuart ($3.75) / Kronwall ($3.0) Ericsson ($0.900) / UFA ($?.???) Kindl ($0.883) Howard ($.717) / Osgood ($1.417) Total $51.088 Total - $6.612 avail to better this team.... This defense was absolutely horrible last season, if all Holland does is re-sign the same and replace Lebda/Meech with Kindl, we're in for a CRAPPY season!!!! Since this is not a what would you do thread, I won't get into that, but this is the roster I would like to see, while using the available $6.6M to get a forward and defender to better this club... Oh, and, Fire McCrimmon.....PLEASE! edit: Looking at Ritola/Eaves, you could sign Eaves to a similar contract and who ever makes the team, waive the other, salary pretty much a wash...

This season, Miller was just as important, if not more, as Bertuzzi was. While Bertuzzi was scoring 18 goals with all the top 2 line and powerplay minutes he was getting, he was also a -7. Miller was scoring 10 goals mostly on the 4th line, he was also a +2 AND one of the most important penalty killers come crunch time. To this team and salary-wise, Miller is more valuable to this team, and if it came down to it, yes I would keep Miller over Bertuzzi. Miller will probably re-sign for a modest increase if any, Bertuzzi, rememeber, was still getting paid from the Ducks contract that was bought out, so if he does want to stay here, he will probably be asking for more than the $1.5M that Holland was paying him, and that would be just too much of our cap space for 18 goals and 44 points. I know he says he wants to stay, and Holland likes him, so hopefully they work out a deal, maybe for the same $1.5M. Put it this way, Miller & Bertuzzi at $2M is better than Bertuzzi at $2M plus and no Miller, if that the case MIller at $6,000,000 is better than Bertuzzi at plus $2M...

Bertuzzi over Miller? HUDLER ON THE TOP LINE?!?!?! listen all you hudler slappies out there, he wasn't good enough to make his own Olympic team, he is not gonna help this team over the hump and he will not play above the third line........ You guys are really delusional!

At first I thought "Throwing Out First Pitch" was a metaphor for him putting his demands out there for Holland to respond!

League sucks... Plenty of NON-Calls against Penguish's then no call on the dive with the push from behind... Once they pulled Fluery, Bettman made the call to the refs.

this just means when Chicago buys out Hossa and we sign him for $2M he can have his #18 back. Good luck Kirk! You should just retire, but hey, if someone wants to throw a million at him, why not go be a 4th liner somewhere else for a season or two. Maybe he'll sign with a contender and win another before he retires. I could see someone like San Jose picking him up for depth...

That would be a nice problem to have eh? I was just giving Mitchell some senority rights and not splitting up Kronner/Stuart. Babs can put them however he wants, but that lineup looks much better defensively than Kindl/Rafalski & Smith being here...

So you're actually saying that Hudler, a player who couldn't even make his national team for the Olympics, should be on our number 1 line? I cannot wait for the season to start so I can get back on bashing Hudler night in and night out. I can only hope Holland trades him at the draft. Back to the OP, this, if true, is seriously BAD and disheartening news. This team as it is, even with adding Hudler, still will falter defensively. If Lidstrom comes back and sucks up most of our cap, and then we lose Meech, Lebda, Lilja and gain Kindl? Our defense gets worse. Lidstrom HAS to come back for no more than $4.5M in order for us to be able to better our team. You gotta convince Rafalski to waive his no trade in order to free up space if Lids is gonna get $6M or more. Trade him to LA for Johnson, sign Lids for $4.5M offer Willie Mitchell a contract, then bring up Kindl. Lids - Mitchell Kronwall - Stuart Johnson - Ericsson Kindl But sadly our defense in gonna be worse than last season, with Kindl up in Lilja's spot and yet an even less experienced player for our seventh. But hey, instead of getting a ligit top 6 forward, we're getting Hudler back!

Good for MacLean! Wonder why nobody wants to interview McCrimmon for a job? Because he SUCKS! I say if MacLean leaves, even if he doesn't, fire McCrimmon and get Larionov in here, if he'll come. He would be groomed to be the next Head Coach after Babcock is gone. If both McCrimmon and MacLean are gone, I dunno who we could get, Chelios maybe? But Larionov would be rock solid on the bench, one of the best hockey minds ever...

While it's true Abdelkader was drafted ahead of Lattendresse, Kindl was taken in the first round that year, which is why I said we should've drafted him instead of Kindl. With Abby making the team before Kindl, it's obvious which player was the better pick. GL taken at #19 (or #18 whichever pick we had that year) would have still left Abby available in the 2nd round since that round went reverse order. Kindl was a waste of a pick, especially now if the Wings are all of a sudden interested in GL, should've just picked him 1st to begin with...

if it weren't for No Trade CLause's, I'd trade Rafalski straight up for Johnson. Rafalski may be a missing piece for LA to get over the hump and Johnson would be a huge building block (along with drafting McIlrath.) GL should've been drafted by the Wings instead of Kindl, but again, he didn't fit in the Wings plans, so what makes us think he does now? I would be very happy if somehow we got him, but, I doubt it. Heck I'd put Rafalski & kindl in a package to get Johnson. I believe his potential is way more of that of Kindl and like I said Rafalski just needs to go and his experience would attract Los Angeles, well should at least. Plus then that would free up more money for UFA's... Trade Rafalski, aquire Johnson, draft McIlrath, sign Mitchell, re-sign Lids for $4.5M... Lidstrom - Mitchell Kronwall - Stuart Ericsson - Johnson Brendan Smith (with McIlrath taking over GRR for a couple of seasons coming up before he's 21) ya ya, pipedream, now I wake up....

if this case, if Holland gives Lids $10M, then Maltby, Hudler & Lids will be the off season. Yay! Seriously, dump Williams, Lebda, Meech, Lilja & Maltby. Re-sign Miller, Helm, Abby, Eaves, Holmstrom & Bertuzzi (cheap) and if Lids wants more than $4.5M then dump him. I like some of the names I am seeing, would LOVE to steal Ladd out of Chicago, but if they can dump Huet then they'll resign all of their FA's. If Lids leaves then Mitchell can be signed... Bottom line is, here we go again! We all have our hopes but reality says Holland is gonna wait until Chritmas if he has to for Lids so whenever Lids decides, all of the quality UFA's will be gone, quite possibly some of our own and we'll be stuck with "We retained the services or Lidstrom and re-aquired Hudler, that is our UFA season, besides, nobody out there fit the plans of the Detroit Red Wings"(which is why Holland won't draft McIlrath even if he is there at #21.) Hey Holland remember when Malhotra's agent contacted you last July about him wanting to play here? I am sure glad we signed Williams for $1.5 instead... On the other hand, Malhotra is glad he signed with San Jose right about now anyway... Oh I also see Travis Moen is still playing in these playoffs too, guess he chose the wiser as well! Oh, wait those two big men didn't fit in the Wings plans last July did they? Every year Holland says he wants to get bigger and stronger thru the draft and UFA's. We'll see what happens this year. Hudler? Trade him at the draft along with our pick in order to move up to guarantee McIlrath... will it happen?

Hey an actual life long Wings fan! Been there done that eh? I fear you are far too correct! Unfortunately the return of Hudler is gonna affect Holland's decision. Not unless he answers our prayers and trades him at the draft. We have what, $16 million available in salary? Take away the $2.8 Hudler is gonna get, we're looking at $13 million, actually capgeek.com has us at just over $14M WITH Hudler's salary for next season, so give us another million to use. If Holland doesn't offer Lidstrom the world and Lids takes like $4-$5 million, that leaves us $8-$9million to re-sign our guys and add some depth. Now, who do we re-sign and or add to our roster? Holmstrom - re-sign for around $1.5M - $2M Abdelkader - No-Brainer, $950-$1M Helm - $650-$750 Miller - $550-$650 Eaves - $550-$650 I am unsure on the RFA's or UFA's in GRR that have no options left in the minors, so the likes of Ritola and Ryno are up in the air. I feel Kindl is gonna get his shot (if not traded) so we'll have to subtract his $833k from the cap. The one guy I am up in the air about is Bertuzzi. He says he wants to stay (so did Hossa) we have plenty of money to keep him, but for what price? Also, I believe Babcock doesnt have much faith in him, example being it is of my opinion that he should've been the guy to take the penalty shot the other night, not Zetterberg, I think Bertuzzi is better ate the penalty shot/shootout. But lets say he stays for $2M and if Lidstrom re-signs for $5M, for the rest of the guys I am gonna use the lower amount. We're looking at only $3M left to add depth, minus Kindl's $833k it's even less. Thats not gonna land us a Mitchell or Ladd. Byfuglien is signed thru next year, so forget him. We might be able to steal Hjalmarsson out of Chicago, but if they are able to dump Campbell and or Huet, they will retain any and all of their FA's that they want along with adding more! This is truly scary... So I would say, without a shadow of a doubt, you sir are 100% spot on with your take on the off-season. (unless we can somehow dump Rafalski's salary.)

I posted this is a different thread, but elt it was more appropriate here, sorry to double post:

Wow, from the sound of most people here, I am glad I didn't watch the game. Blew a 3-1 lead, bad goal to tie, too may penalties, 3rdperiod let down. Face it guys, all year long they've had these 3rd period let downs. I remember a user on here posting the Price is right horn to indicate another third period by the Wings. I did see the OT goal on the highlights, WTF was Rafalski doing? Isn't he supposed to take the pass away? HE never went down to try to deflet the pass, his stick was behind his back, the only thing he did was wave his hand at the puck (in Scott Mitchell tackle attempt fashion) as it effortlesly made it's way to Marleau, who slam dunked an open net goal. And watch J. Willy, he just stops skating for some reason as he is getting near Marleau right before the re-direct... PATHETIC! The Jason Williams experiment is OVER, tell Rafalski, either accept a trade or be cut. The both of them are directly at fault for this OT goal. No guarantee Rafalski would've blocked it but DO YOUR JOB, bend over, block the pass, deflect it with your stick, TRY!!! Don't just wave at it with your hand! And Williams, geesh! Sure, no guarntee he would've caught Marleau in time, but Jeezus H, huslte to the very end! SHOW SOME F'ING DESIRE TO STOP A GOAL, TO WIN! Willaims should be back out of the lineup for game 4, crap, put ANYONE in there, someone needs to win a job next year and will at least show more desire and hustle than Williams, My grandmother has more hustle than Williams!