LeftWinger

...stats don't lie. I suppose you are gonna tell me that without Yzerman, Fedorov woul have sucked? On the contrary, Fedorov extended Yzerman's career. Without Fedorov coming in and taking the scoring onus off Steve, he was able to change gears in the way he plays the game to a more defensive posture, thus extending his career. If Sergei hadn't come to Detroit, Steve would have been relied upon to keep scoring 120 points every season. Once Fedorov proved he was a MVP superstar on this team, Steve became expendable, thus the almost trade to Ottawa in 1994 (need I remind you it wasn't just a rumor, it was a agreed upon, done deal, with Marian Illitch nixing it at the last minute) ironically the same season that Fedorov won the Hart and Selke and took this team over in the absense of Steve while out with a neck injury. If the deal would have be finalized, Steve would have been the face of Ottawa, not Detroit. If he would have lasted 10 more years up there. You cannot change history, stats are recorded, it's all in black and white. Steve was great, but so was Sergei... ...Yzerman all Heart, Fedorov all HART... ...dear sir, what are you smoking? ...oh BTW, did you know that Yzerman was once "traded" before? 1988, for Wayne Gretzky. That summer, the "Great One" was to be traded to either Detroit or Los Angeles. The NHL decided that Gretzky would serve a better purpose in LA, thus revitalizing hockey in southern California. So the Great Steve Yzerman was to be an Oiler in 1988 if not for the NHL wanting to sell the game of hockey in southern California. That was sort of a prelude to the Gary Bettman era and his ideals of selling hockey in the southern states. This came directly from Gretzky's mouth on the David Letterman show. So much for Steve being the face of the franchise back then as well, seems like he was the face of trade value up until 1995... (I, for one, am glad we didn't make that trade, I dispise Wayne Gretzky, yet respect his accomplishments. I am also glad we didn't trade him for Yashin either.)

...exactly, take Lids off we still win back in 1997, but remove Feds as well, then we win nothing. And without Feds in 1998 then forget about even getting past Phoenix...

MY a dick? Maybe you should have said "YOU'RE a dick" that would make me a dick. But "YOUR a dick" makes no sense... ...if being a dick means no Hudler, then My a dick! ..ok, now that the kids are in bed...

you think I didn't? Yzerman averge nearly 80 points per season over 22 years. Fedorov 63 over 18 years. That is only 17 points difference a season. Not too shabby really. Very comparable. BUT during the championship years, lets say starting in 1995 to 2002 we have Yzerman at 77 average per year and Fedorov at 72 average per year that is only 5 less points and consider Fedorov's 211 goals to Yzerman's 189 is obviuos that Fedorov scored more goals during that time, perhaps with setups from Yzerman. Look, I am not saying Fedorov was the better player, but the argument was "was Fedorov just as important to this team as Yzerman was?" I think the stats prove it, especially in the playoffs when Yzerman had 109 points to Sergei's 127. Grant it, Yzerman is 4 years older than Sergei and that could've played a role in the difference's but I did state that at this point in their respective careers, Yzerman meant more to this team for his heart and leadership and Sergei was looked to put the puck in the net. Remember he played nearly half the year in 2002 as a defensman as well. To sum it up. Sergei was just as important to this team as Steve Yzerman, bottom line, like it or not, facts are facts, stats are stats and awards are awards. Without Fedorov, we are STILL waiting to end our Stanley Cup drout. Steve Yzerman proved that he alone couldn't take us to Lord Stanley, he needed lots of help... ...I hope that satisfies your need for stats to back up my statement...

...apology accepted. J/K! ...listen, as much as you like Hudler, I dislike him. That's it. And that is what makes this forum a wonderful place! Opinions! Yay! No offense and non-taken... ...in may not be a synonym, but there is but one Omnipotent being and that is the aforementioned God. That is another great thing about free speech, maybe Hudler is God-like to you. To each their own... oh, and just an FYI: Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits i.e. unlimited power. Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence only to God. In the philosophy of most Western monotheistic religions, omnipotence is listed as one of God's characteristics among many, including omniscience, omnipresence, and benevolence.

...all I am saying is Steve was the face of the franchise because he was here so long. During Fedorov's tenure here, he was more important to this team statiscally than Yzerman. No, nobody had more heart than Yzerman and a lot of times that makes up for a scoresheet on some nights. But, bottom line, scoring wins. So on that note, what Yzerman meant to Wings with his leadership and heart, Sergei meant to them with his scoring. He deserves #91 in the rafters based on his production while in the Winged wheel...

...don't look now, but Wings are slumping... ...sure they are 3-2 the last 5, and 8-2 the last 10, but of the last five, they could easily be 1-4. They didn't beat Colorado until 2:00 minutes left in the game, they could've lost to Minnesota in OT and they lose to LA and Toronto. Even the Coyotes played them rough last week. Wings have found a way to go 8-2 in the last 10, good teams do that, but they are not beating teams as handily and they once were. 8-2 could easily been 4-4 or worse. Slumping. That's ok, first time really all year, but a little concerning none-the-less...

...you don't have to call me names. Ken Kal said "Healthy Scratch" so choke on it... ...Oh, BTW after Hudler IS dealt, we can stop looking at your name comparing Hudler to God... ...Hudler :puke:. Healthy Scratch, for Aaron Downey none the less! :rotflmao:

...hey Omnipotent_Hudler, your guy is a healthy scratch today, you know what that means... ...TRADE FORTH COMING!!! Bye Bye Overated Hudler! :puke: ...ok, all the earlier talk about Yzerman/Fedorov , whether or not the #91 will go up, who was more or equally important to this club's success... ...I am a fan of Steve Yzerman. He deserves all the accolades he gets, but lets look at the facts and the numbers. Steve's teams prior to the European invasion were pretty much useless. Yeah (unlike someone eluded to earlier) they made the playoffs, but other than 87 and 88 they didn't make many waves and were eliminated in the first round most the time, not including TWICE they didn't even make the playoffs. Sure Steve piled up the points, yet other players paled in comparison and he was all too often the guy who was solely relied upon to get it done for his team. Petr Klima was a little help, but he self destructed. Now, the ONLY reason Stevie means so much to this city is because he was there when they sucked and he played thru those years to the glory years. Remember, he was once traded (unofficially) to Ottawa after losing to the Sharks in 1994. I cannot remember Sergei EVER being mentioned in a trade. As a matter of fact, the Illitch's and Holland love this guy so much that they paid him $26million to play a handful of games in 1998. I know, you are gonna say Yzerman never got traded because they loved him, yet it was Marian Illitch who nixed that trade. Scotty had the deal done and Illitch was ready to approve it until the wifey stepped in... ...Ok, enough of sentimental reasoning for Sergei being just as important, lets get to the stats. If Yzerman and Fedorov entered the league at the exact same time and left the exact same time, Stevie would have edged Sergei by 24 regular season points. Fedorov has 163 playoff points to Steve's 135 points in the same time span. As a matter of fact, Fedorov has only 22 less playoff points now than Stevie had his entire career. Fedorov will top the 500 goal mark, if he plays for us 5 more years, there's no reason why he wouldn't top 600 and maybe even crack the top 10 in goal scoring all-time. He is already the highest scoring Russian born player n the NHL, he has more MVP's than Steve, I think Steve only has one Selke as well, so he has him beat there. The only reason Steve beat him out for the Conn Smyth in 1998 is because he had 4 more points than Sergei, yet Sergei had led the team in goals that playoff season with 10. He will be in the Hall of Fame after he retires. There's no reason why #91 shouldn't be in the rafters just on those merits alone, but who was more important to this team's success? Fedorov is my answer. If you take the time that we were the best team in the NHL, between the years of 1995 to the last Stanley Cup in 02, Fedorov clearly was a bigger player on this team. If Yzerman and Fedorov entered the league the same year, Fedorov becomes the face of this franchise, not Steve... ...with that being said, Yzerman was a HUGE part of this teams success, but, when it comes down to where it counts, that is in the statistical catagory, Sergei was the top dog... ...you cannot compare Fedorov to Lidstrom, two different position, two totally different approaches to the game, but I will tell you this, and call me all kinds of names if you want, take Lidstrom off this team and we still win a Cup or two, take Sergei off that team and we win 0, zero, zilch, none, natta. Not even with Yzerman... ...Most of you know this to be true, but you are afraid to admit it... ...Steve Yzerman was the face of this franchise, but Sergei Fedorov was the face of this Championship franchise, the face of the Cup...

...you know as soon as he puts that Red & White back on, everyone will cheer him... ...we are not going to have to pay his entire $6m salary. Very little of it as a matter of fact, and everyone knows he will not re-sign for that much. I can see him coming here and signing for $2.5m - $3.5m and finishing his career here... ...I haver been beating the Fedorov/Foote drum for a long time here, nice to see that other folks are with me on that trade! It wouldn't cost too much and it surely gives us hude amounts of depth in the playoffs! ...Come home Sergei and bring the Yeti with you! The #91 will skate again...and then hang from the rafters where it belongs!!!

...we need depth, not atop 2 d-man. Blake would git nicely here, only if we could get him for a draft pick or two. No players! Especially if he is going to be a rental. I would rather go for a depth defensman like Adam Foote, he'd prolly be in our top 4, but he wouldn't cost us top 4 talent. Then (if we cannot get Feds until UFA) we can get someone like Glenn Murray out of Boston for a draft pick. If we aren't going to land Sundin or Hossa, then we must go for depth like Foote & Murray... ...BTW if we do end up trading Hudler in a deal, he is VERY replaceable with plenty of talent in our minors... ...I'd rather give Ryno the shot next year in place of Hudler or maybe if this Fabien cat is all that. (if we get him) ...my vote. Blake for picks or forget it. Foote and Murray would help us more... (and cost less)

...would Redden cost us much to get him here? Is he worth getting?

- Fedorov - - Foote - - Hudler Gone! - ...that's what I want...

...well even if he did, that STILL doesn't mean he wouldn't... ...remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9kZbdnzMRQ ...I guess if he won't then it's down to Sundin - Blake - Fedorov - Foote (with Sundin costing us the most in return.) I think Hossa out of the question, he would cost WAAAAAAY too much. I personallly would like to see a Fedorov/Foote, but those guys are UFA's at the end (not really sure about Foote's UFA or not.) Butif we land Blake and Sundin that would be fine by me... ...anyone give any thought to Glen Murray or Darryl Sydor?

...what is with all the "He is so hated, he cannot come to the Wings" garbage? Oh waahh! I hate Roenick, I hate Forsberg, oh God do I hate Fedorov! Get over yourselves!!! Are you going to stop watching the Wings if perhaps they did trade for Roenick or Fedorov or sign Forsberg? I actually hope you all do, that way we don't don't have to hear how you change your tune when they start doing well for us and actually HELPING us! Well guess what, hate them all you want, but if anyone of those guys played here, 1. Our team would be better and 2. You'd end up cheering for them (just llike Chelios) because you are all a bunch of "what have you done for me lately" fans! ...Put JR on this team in place of Drake, Hudler or Sammy and this team is better. While you were at that game did you notice who was the one doing all the hitting? Effectively for that matter? You hate these guys cause they're good at what they do and you cannot stand the fact that every last one of them has to abiltity to hurt the Wings everytime they play against them. Hurt them in more ways than one... ...I would love to see any of those players on our team! ...oh wait, I forgot, and just because you hate them, they are cheapshot artists, lazy and suck, and injury prone, washed up, too old, useless, what else has been used to describe these guys, he's a diver... patheic! ...if the Wings signed Forsberg or traded for Roenick/Fedorov and they scored the game winning goal in the Stanley Cup clinching game, you'd be all over their jocks, signing their praises...

...who's better, Cleary of Hudler? Dump Hudler and there's $1,015,000 freed up. Take the 2-3 million he would get from Holland, add Hudlers $1 million and there we have somewhere between 3 and 4 million for someone who deserves it more than Hudler. Hudler blows anyhow, his missed his opportunity this season to prove he belongs and it's obvious he doesn't...

...you guys cannot have it both ways! How long have we been screaming about grit and size? "Where's all our 6' plus 200 plus pounders?" Well, Franzen fits that bill and now you want to cast him away and keepo someone like Hudler? Hudler is exactly what we DON'T need anymore of! Too small! Package Hudler and picks for Jokinen and I am all for it! Hate to give up Kronner, I would think that with all his injuries, other teams aren't so high on him as they once were. We may be stuck with the china doll...

...I don't see why he wouldn't get some votes... ...The Wings could have many awards. Why not Zetterberg for Hart? Why all know Datsyuk for Bing, maybe Selke? Babcock for Adams, Lidstrom and Rafalski up for Norris and how much consideration would Osgood get for Vezina if he finishes with 25-30 wins and still leads the league in GAA? He'd have to get some, right?

... Wow, you obviuosly know what your talking about! Man if he sucks that bad, we should be able to pick him up off the waiver wire pretty soon, eh?

...you'll have to excuse him, as well as most of the members on here. They all hate Forsberg because he was an ave. They hate Fedorov because he left. Even though the addition of either of those two would pretty much guarantee us a Cup. Both would cause other teams to file grievances with the league. Add Blake and they'll disqualify us for conspiracy to buy the Cup. These guys are just to afraid to admit the would all love to see Feds back with us. One thing I would change about your lineup, Trade Hudler. He totally sucks, is overrated (on this forum) and pretty much lacks what it takes to make it in the NHL...

...Fedorov is STILL better than over half our team... ...BTW it is real. Fedorov will not be overpaid here. The only reason he hasn't been effective is because of the teams he's played on. (that is why Osgood is so good right? Because of the team he plays for? Not because he, himself is that good?) So put Fedorov back on the Wings and he's back to a top 4 forward. Great example, where else does Cleary do so good? Nowhere but here. Put him in Columbus and he's a #13 forward. Hudler pukes even here, so trade him for a bag of used laces...

...Well, lets just say when Fedorov happens, you'll wonder how I knew. If not at the deadline, then UFA... ...Fedorov back to the Wings, #91 in the rafters. End of story. I honestly don't think managment cares or not if Fedorov gets booed right now, as soon as he's back, the boos will change. It did for Chelios. ...Anyhow, back on subject, Blake will not be here because of his injury. Too risky now. If they do trade for him, he will re-injure in the first round, if not sooner and be out for entire playoffs. Time to look elsewhere...

...he will be back either at the deadline or as a UFA. You guys are gonna have to get over your hatred for him... ...it is already done, written in stone, as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, Fedorov will retire a Red Wing...

...forget Blake now, even if he rests for 2-3 weeks, it won't be the same, he comes here and sucks or re-injures it in round 1 and we are no better than we are now. We go for Foote now... ...which means it'll be Fedorov and Foote in the Winged Wheel come Feb. 26th... ...welcome home Sergei and welcome to the "other side of the tracks" Foote! (hey, maybe give Forsberg a call ad tell him it'sok to come here and play.)

...not only does the music/multimedia entertainment suck, but I am am tired of Bud Lynch. God bless him and here's a hearty :beerbuddy: to his Hall of Fame career, but it's time to go. This is not the same old Red Wings. Long gone is the Steve Yzerman era. This is the fast paced Zetterberg era and we need a multimedia and P.A. annoucer who reflects the changing game... ...you are never gonna get rid of older music, and rightly so, some 80's and early 90's music can hang with (or put to shame) most of the music coming out now-a-days. I have always been partial to them playing "Welcome To The Jungle" when the Wings come on to the ice for warm-ups. I would also love to hear Ministry's extended version of N.W.O during warm-ups...