Nightfall

Saying "mistakes happen" shouldn't bring teams out of the woodwork for payback for calls being made. These people are professionals. They probably remember when they were kids being reffed and refs making mistakes back then. I think everyone knows that refs make mistakes and miss calls. To say that outloud wouldn't be a travesty. To hear Bettman say that their refs are infallible really makes me sick. Ok, I know that your refs are good, but I wouldn't go the extra mile to say they don't make mistakes. I am still waiting for a hockey rink to do a "sounds of the game" event night. Thats when you show up to watch a game, and they have no music and the ice is mic'ed up. So you hear everything out there on the ice. Yea, I know that would throw in an "explicit language" warning on the tickets, but still, I would love to hear the stuff on the ice more than the announcers. On my NHL Center Ice package I get lucky on occasion and get a feed with no announcers or commercials. It really is a nice feed to watch. On a side note since we are talking about reffing.... I once had a group of friends over to my place to watch a Chicago/Vancouver game from last seasons playoffs. Some people reffed, some didn't. The goal was to write down every infraction that you would call in a game. At the end of the game, total up the number of penalties for each team. The results were telling. Chicago beat Vancouver 6-3 in the game. 4 of the 6 of us found more penalties for Vancouver than we did Chicago. One friend of mine had 14 penalties for Vancouver as opposed to 2 for Chicago....and he is a Blackhawks fan.

This. I am a Wings fan, but I am also a hockey fan above all else. If the Wings aren't going the distance, then I am going to cheer for anyone but the Pens. The Pens have had their time in the sun, so I am cheering for someone new to win the cup. Any of the other teams would be great. If I had to put a preference to them... 1. Canucks 2. Habs 3. Sharks 4. Bruins 5. Hawks 6. Flyers 7. Pens

Best post in this thread. You will never know how a player is going to do until they are with the big club. Success in the AHL does not equate to success in the NHL. Sometimes players rise to the occasion.

I feel that consistency is all relative to how the ref is doing. There are some games I watch where its real loose out there. Other games are very tight. Its good to not see pre-lockout hockey thats for sure, but even in loose games you see a little more hooking and interference than you would in a tight game. So how do you make things more consistent? Thats hard because no matter what, refs are going to call different games. When you see a trip happen out there, maybe 6 out of 10 refs would say it was a trip while the other 4 would say he lost an edge. I agree with you on the slashing calls too. Just because a slash breaks a stick doesn't mean its a penalty. Refs have to be able to make that judgment call on their own. Sure, the broken stick is a bad sign, but I feel that there are some instances (about 15%) where a players stick breaks and it wasn't a slash. Same with dives. I find the diving call to be stupid as hell. If you call player A for a trip and player B for a dive, how the hell did player A trip player B then? A dive is a dive. I don't know why player A should be penalized for player B diving. The rules are what they are though. The refs have to work around those rules as best as they can. If they go outside the rules, some refs get penalized themselves in fines or "time off" where they don't get any games. Yes, that happens in USA hockey, college hockey, and pro hockey. Refs do get penalized for making mistakes.

I remember back about 8 years ago when I would get frustrated with refereeing when I would watch hockey. I played hockey and I just didn't understand why, as a goalie, I could see penalties that the ref wouldn't see right in front of them. Last year, I decided to get my USA Hockey certification and start reffing. It was a very good experience for me, and it really opened my eyes to what happens out there on the ice. Now, a lot of the comments I see are from people who have never reffed hockey before. Heck, I am betting that 95% of you have never reffed any sport before. There are a couple things that people should at least consider before drawing conclusions about a game or a series and how it was reffed. First, I consider hockey to be one of the hardest sports to referee. The game moves so fast, and in the course of a play, the ref has to break it down in his head. I thought, as a goalie moving into reffing, that I would be better at this. The simple fact of the matter is that I wasn't. I spend a lot of time studying the rules, taping my games to watch it from a fan's perspective, and also talking to coaches and players. There are a lot of fans that talk out of their asses about how the reffing is when they have never reffed a game in their lives. I am a firm believer that people should walk a mile in their shoes before passing judgment. Give reffing a try before you ***** about the reffing. A lot of people don't even want to go down that road because its hard or they are lazy. Second, refs are human. They do miss calls. They do make mistakes. I never understood why the refs in the NHL get a free pass on all these things. One of the things I pride myself on is being honest with all players and coaches out on the ice. If I made a mistake, I own up to it. The league officials may not expect that, but I expect it from myself. I question Gary Bettmen when he stands behind his refs 100% and insists that mistakes are never made. As a fan of hockey, everyone should just acknowledge the fact that mistakes and missed calls are going to happen in the course of a game. Third, there is no conspiracy. Refs are consummate professionals. I am a hockey fan as much as I am a Wings fan. I don't see any conspiracy out there. Sure, I see mistakes. I see missed calls in every game, but its easy for an armchair fan to watch a game and see something bad. Especially a fan of a team that sees something against his team. Which is why you hear 20,000 fans boo the refs when they don't get a call. Try attending a hockey game or watching one on TV where you don't care who wins or loses. What would you call in the course of that game? How many penalties total? I bet if you were watching the Wings you would easily call a 3 to 1 margin in favor of the Wings. Now, that would be a conspiracy if you were reffing. I know that a lot of Wings fans feel slighted about the reffing. Heck, I feel that way. I feel the Wings came out on the bad end of some calls in the game, thats for sure. At the same time though, the Sharks were in fact more disciplined. As Mickey said after the last game, when you are chasing the other team around, you are going to commit more penalties. Well, they spent a lot of the games of this series chasing the sharks around. The sharks deserved to win, and the refs were not swinging it in their direction. The Red Wings were giving them the games by committing timely penalties. In the end, I listen to what a lot of Wings fans have to say and I just *facepalm*. Here fans are bitching about the reffing and saying that the refs gave the series to the Sharks. Ok, well if that was the case, then their team as it is should be just fine for next season. Nope! They are too old and slow and need to be revamped. So was it the refs fault in the end? Or was it a worth ethic issue? Or was it just the fact that the Sharks out hustled and out played the wings? In the Stanley Cup playoffs, I am a firm believer that the hungrier team always advances. The Sharks were the hungrier team.

Well, as a hockey fan, I am going to root for a team to win the Cup that hasn't won it in a while. That means anyone but Pittsburgh at this stage. Yes, I will even root for the sharks and the hawks.

There are two approaches that people are taking to this. Approach #1 is to look at the end result and be disappointed and upset at the Wings. After all, the season ended without a Stanley cup. Approach #2 is to look at the end result and be proud of the Wings and what they have accomplished. After all, at the olympic break, they weren't even in the playoffs. They turned the season around and got in, and then had a pretty successful run in the playoffs. I choose to take approach #2. There can only be one Stanley Cup winner. I firmly believe that the Wings tried their best, but ran into a hungrier team. Great job Wings! Rest up, and we will see you again in September/October.

Its good to see smart wings fans acknowledging that. Faceoffs? San Jose's favor, especially key faceoffs that you needed to win. Scoring Chances? San Jose's favor Turnovers? San Jose has less in the series. The Sharks were hungrier. Nabokov really exorcised some playoff demons. Howard played well, but he did have a couple bad goals in the series. He will learn from those and deserves another shot.

Ah well, great season. Its really good to hear Mickey Redmond talk about the game and he is spot on once again. Lost faceoffs, sloppy play in their own zone, turnovers, being outhustled....Those things do not equate you to winning a game or a series. The Wings did only lose 4 one goal games, but they needed to seal the deal when they were up in 2 of the 4 games entering the 3rd period. A lot of blame to go around. The refs do get part of the blame, but its very small. The Wings should shoulder a vast majority of it. It really was a great season.

That would go into San Jose lore if it happened.

0-2 on offensive zone faceoffs when you need to win one. Sick.

Can we win a faceoff in the offensive zone please?

Howard may have taken his lumps this playoff season, but he has the skills to compete in this league.

I will say this, the Wings have had a few raw deals when it comes to not getting calls. The blame doesn't go on the refs though. Wings fans like to blame the refs for turnovers, lost faceoffs, and so on, but its weak. I tire of it personally. The Wings need to improve their game and SCORE A GOAL. 4 power plays and very few shots? The scoring chances are very strongly in San Jose's favor right now. Work hard Wings. You can't win many games only scoring 1 goal.

The refs are losing control of this game. Murray just got nailed, no call. This is how players get hurt.

The Wings being slopping in their own zone was the reason why they scored. The refs were not involved, unfortunately. Put the blame where it belongs, on the Wings.

Detroit outchanced 4-1 this period and 14-8 for the game. Thats a pretty telling stat.

I love how people here put so much weight into what Mickey and Ken say in the course of the game and yet everyone ignores them in situations like this. The Wings are CHASING the Sharks around the ice and being forced to take penalties. Wings have got to fight through it. Wings have 3 PP now as compared to 4 for the Sharks. The Wings have GOT to capitalize on the man advantage.

***** less about the reffing. The Wings have to be good enough to overcome them. There are so many ways the Wings can improve in this game and so far they are barely getting by.

DID WE JUST WIN A KEY FACEOFF? Allow me to do a shot of Goldschlager.

They are losing key faceoffs though. The PP goal was a key faceoff. We lost the faceoff in the offensive zone on our power play. What a crap power play.

PLEASE WIN A KEY FACEOFF.

I agree with Mickey. The Wings need to puck control more so the Sharks take more penalties. A little pressure, and the Sharks took a penalty.

That was the first penalty today that I can agree with. He got his elbow up in the face of the Shark player. Another crap faceoff. Bah!

As mickey said.... When you are chasing, and not being chased, you are going to take more penalties. Dammit Wings. Pick it up a notch.