Nightfall

Done hanging out under that bridge yet? I don't mind debating or discussing. If you want to resort to name calling and put downs, don't troll here. Its stupid.

Not for me at least. That game last night was awesome. The best I have seen in a long time. It had highs and lows. It had the Pens playing desperate at times. The end result you can't argue with. Hudler high sticked someone, and the Pens scored on the power play. Talk about taking advantage of your opportunities. Detroit leads the series 3-2, and the Pens will have to win 2 more games. Let me be the first to say if the Pens do win this series and drink from Lord Stanley, then they would have deserved it. The Wings fans will blame certain players, the refs, and/or Bettmen. In the end though, when they look back on the series, the only one they will have to blame is themselves. However, Detroit is still in the drivers seat. On a personal note, I am happy that we get to watch more hockey.

My opinion that I understand why the call was made? Is it wrong to understand it? I think you and others on this board are misinterpreting me. Once again, I understand why the call was made. I don't know if I would have called it like that, but I understand it because of how I saw it. Perception is everything. I never said it was a correct call. I never said it was the best call in the history of hockey. Just that I understand it when it happened and where the perception comes from. As for the announcers, I am sure a vast majority of people on this forum would agree with you on that statement. According to the numerous wings fans here, the announcers are tools that man love Crosby and hump the Penguins leg. They hate it when the announcers discuss the Penguins which, according to them, happens ALL the time and the Wings get no appreciation.

QFT The interference on Hank by pushing him into the zone and offsides when the Wings were going in on an odd man rush. That was a horrible missed call.

When it happened to Osgood like it has through the season and playoffs, the Wings fans rejoice when the call was made and ***** when it isn't called. The only reason it is BS is because it was against the Wings and because it was called. Roles reversed, its a no brainer call.

I already voiced my opinion on this, but let me add something else... The ability to drive the net doesn't give the player the right to make contact with the goalie. There is a big difference between driving the net looking for a scoring chance and getting a shot off to driving the net, getting your shot off, and hitting the goalie. Any play where that happens and a defending player isn't right on top of you means that any contact you make with the goalie may be called. In both instances last night, no pens player was around Cleary or Hank. They drove the net, got a shot off, and hit the goalie. I was not surprised when the ref called those penalities and anyone who couldn't see the calls coming AT ALL should step back and really analyze if they are hockey fans. If the roles were reversed, the Wings fans would be complaining about the contact IN THE CREASE and celebrating the calls as totally legit.

Thats the best damn post I have seen in this thread. Why not 4 refs who are off ice who can watch instant replays and make calls having the foresight to see different angles in the play. You want to talk about a well reffed game, there you go. The system has to be changed in order to have a game where no calls are missed and every call is accurate.

You never know. I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. The homer fans like you on this board see no way but one way and thats the Wings way. I consider myself to be a fan of hockey and the Wings. I consider myself to be objective and not to be wearing rose colored glasses.

Fleury stole the game plain and simple. He deserves the praise he got.

I don't think they were good calls, but I can't say I was surprised they were called so I understand the call and have to say I accept them. When I saw the play unfold in front of my eyes, I thought that a penalty would be called because contact was made and no penguins player was making contact to Hank or Cleary. Was contact made to the goalie? Yes. As a goalie, if a forward drove the net, shot the puck into my pads and then ran into me, I would be a little bent thats for sure. Looking for a rebound and bumping the goalie are two different things. Especially when one of my defensemen isn't pushing them into me.

Good luck with that.

Nope IMO, he flopped behind the net at least thats the way it looked to me. However, it looked like he was run by Hank and Cleary when he was in his crease. The refs don't have an implant with instant replay. If they did, then making calls would be easier. As long as the game is called by humans, there will be mistakes made. Perception is everything. Just because I understand the call doesn't mean I would call it if I was out there OR that I agree with it. Just that I understand why the call was made. Anyone who disagrees with the reffing needs to go out and ref a hockey game a few times just to understand what its like before they pass judgement.

Thats a true story. If the game were called tight, there would have been 6 power plays in the first OT alone. Same with the second OT. Both teams were flopping around trying to get calls.

The people pointing fingers are bandwagon fans plain and simple. They say they are Wings fans, but they are only here when the team does well. When the team is playing like ass, they are nowhere to be found. The only true fans of the Red Wings are the ones that can look objectively at a game, acknowledge that they were outplayed in the 1st and 2nd period, and say that they lost the game themselves tonight. I agree with you on the very vocal 30% of the wings fans here bitching and looking for someone to blame. Its stupid and its shameful.

I didn't fall for it when he flopped behind the net. Neither did the refs on the ice.

I am not saying that I would have made the call, but it looks bad when it happens and I understand it when the ref makes the call. When it happened, I thought it might be called and when it was I wasn't surprised. Oh, and no I haven't seen our goalie run in a while. I think it happened back in the Nashville series and they were assessed a penalty over it. Probably helps if I wear the homer goggles if you do, but I don't and have no interest in putting them on. No, you and 90% of the people here bitching about the reffing needs to ref a full game in order to make disparaging comments about the reffing. Its not a perfect science thats for sure. There are some calls you will get right and some you will get wrong. The millions of armchair refs sitting on their asses watching from a camera in the arena will call it totally differently than someone on the ice trying to keep up with the pace of the game. Besides, a vast majority of the people here want to see a Wings fan reffing. They wouldn't be happy unless the Wings had 20 power play opportunities to the Pens 2 chances. They only remember the reffing as being a problem when their team loses. No one bitched at all about Game 1, Game 2, or Game 4. In Game 3 and 5, the refs f***ed us which is why we lost, right? Please......

Thats the biggest crock of s*** statement I have read on these forums. One bad call on the Datsyuk penalty in the first period. Other than that, a very good job overall. The refs didn't make the Wings lose, the Wings lost it themselves.

I agree with your assesment for the most part. Both teams got away with way too much. A lot of diving and flopping around. A few cross checks and interference calls that were no brainers to me at least against both teams. The calls that were made were legit in my eyes. As for the goalie interference, Fleury was in his crease both times he was bumped. I am not saying they were terrific calls, but I am saying that the ref sees a wings forward driving the net with the puck. With no defenseman on him, he bumps the goalie, knocking him down. Why can no one here see that play develop and wonder what is going on? If it happened to Osgood, the community would be up in arms about it....especially if they were scored on. Just because you have the puck and are driving the net doesn't mean if you don't score on your shot you can run into the goalie or bump him. Fleury was tripped up a few times behind the net with no call. The only calls that were made were when he was in his crease.

Its easy to make that judgement call watching from a television and drinking a beer. With the game being played at such a fast pace, the ref has to make a call on what he sees. I don't know what you have been watching, but when Hank bumped the goalie with no one on him, I said to myself "penalty". As a Wings fan, I hate the call, but as a ref I understand it. Same with Cleary's drive to the net and hit on the goalie with no one on him. You are right, I don't know s*** about reffing in the NHL. However, its apparent that you don't know how reffing works at all. If you did, you would at least understand why the call was made. Helps if you take off the homer goggles. IMHO, anyone who wants to complain about the reffing should at least ref a full game of hockey before they pass judgement. Its not easy and you will not get every call right no matter how hard you work at being the best ref out there.

I consider it a form of bandwagoning. Jump on when they are hot and root the team on. When the team plays like s***, jump off and burn them for it. The problem is that a very vocal 30% of the fans here are bandwagoners and its shameful.

QFT Why are no other Wings fans pissed off about the lack of effort by their team in clutch games? Game 3 was clutch if the Wings would have won it. So why did they slack off? Game 5 was for the cup, talk about a clutch game. So why come out flat in the 1st and 2nd period? Hell, they played like crap in the 2nd OT. What about the Dallas series game 4? A chance to close out the series there and they come out with a crap performance.

I agree. The refs went back to prelockout style of reffing. Let everything go. I counted 6 instances where I thought something should have been called in the 2nd period alone. Both teams were falling all over each other, interfering, obstructing, and so on. The refs should have been calling a tight game since the OT started. Instead they let the teams play....which isn't bad either. The call they lost on was totally legit. Huds stick cliped someone in the face. Thats a no brainer call. Time to stop dwelling on the reffing and start concentrating on Game 6. Those that live in the past are doomed to repeat it.

I certainly hope so Hank. When the Wings come to play, they come to play. In all their losses, they came looking like s***. Game 3? Like s*** thats for sure. Game 5? Another s*** game to start. Note to the team, you can play like s*** and expect to win the game. You can't expect the Pens to just lay down and give you the damn cup. If there is one thing I have learned about these Wings it is the inconsistent hockey they have played. Why can't they come out with that sense of urgency every game? That is shameful.

Announcers admitting the calls were bad doesn't mean s***. In the end, its still a call. And as a ref myself, I am just saying I saw why they were called. You put 100 different NHL refs on the ice for those situations, and maybe 40 of the 100 make those calls. To Wings fans its wrong. Well, its hockey.

Before I started playing hockey back in 1998, I felt the same as you did. Totally anxious and unable to sleep after playoff games that we lost. Since I started playing, I have a whole new appreciation for the sport. As for you being worried, you should be. Inconsistent play by the Wings has put them into this situation.