Nightfall

Proves my point. No matter how s***ty the wings play, O'Hallaran will be blamed.

Blame O'Halleron. Everyone else here is. He made that goal happen.

That us against the refs argument is as lame as f*** IMO.

QFT. Maybe we will play better 4 on 4 or on the pk.

Ok, I normally stand up for the refs, but that was a bad call. Oh well. Mistakes happen.

did any of those hit the net? Looked like they were both blocked or went wide of the net. If so, they weren't shots.

To many men. Announcers called it before I did.

Good call on the penguins. Sloppy pp so far.

Then why even make a statement like that other than to troll on these forums? You can't back it up, so you just toss out a bulls*** statement. For what end? I am not denying McCarty has had issues. Same with Probert. Point is that he is going the extra mile to clean his image up and come back to the game of hockey. Hearsay is just that....hearsay.

I read this article when it came out on espn.com a while ago. It is quite a good story. As for O'Halloran hating Detroit, thats a s*** statement. He is a great ref.

No, his relative did. Which still puts the burden of proof on him/her.

I am in the same boat. The press and fans of the wings think tonights the night. Cost of tickets for tonights game are through the roof. All through this, I just hope the players are going to play their best tonight. Lets hope the puck bounces their way. Otherwise, game 6 is on Wednesday.

Proof? Not that I am denying it, but levying that kind of accusation without proof is pretty low. I have to give McCarty the benefit of the doubt that he has turned his life around until I see otherwise. When he was here in GR, he spent time improving his image in the community, press, and fans.

At the price game 5 tickets are going for, I would sell mine and watch the damn game on a brand new TV. I have a friend who had game 5 tickets for the stanley cup final back in 2003 when Detroit clinched. He paid $300 or so face value for them (lower bowl, I can't remember the exact cost), and sold both of them on his way to the rink from Greektown. A guy offered $2500 cash for both of them. He whipped out 25 $100 bills in Greektown for them. My friend couldn't pass it up, so he sold them and made $2200 in profit. Game 5 tickets are going for $800 each upper bowl right now. Lower are up to $3000 each.

I don't see how anyone could follow along with you when you look at a stats sheet, and then you choose to omit some penalties or calls for certain reasons. Ah well, at least you admitted you mis numbered them so thats a start.

You can't count. I said 5-3 in power play opportunities. The 5 on 3 could be counted as 2, which would make it 6-3. Not 8-4 like you said. You may not agree with the delay of game call, but its still a penalty. As for your suggestion that the Pens had the calls going their way in the game, its not accurate. The calls in the game, from a Wings fan's perspective, were quite good. Thats just my opinion though.

Uh, they are down because no canadian team is in the finals this year unlike the previous when you had the Sens, Edmonton, and Calgary in the finals. Course it will be a down year this year when compared to previous ones. Still, the share in Canada is pretty good considering.

The average household doesn't know what hockey is at all. Which is why the ratings have been in the toilet since I have watched hockey. However, EVERYONE who follows the NHL knows Sidney Crosby. That being said, they are the best ratings since 2002 for these reasons.... The Red Wings are one of the most popular teams in the NHL. I think in terms of fanbase they are just behind Toronto and Montreal (or pretty much equal to the Habs). Sidney Crosby is very popular in Canada and a lot of Canadian fans are tuning in to watch him as well as fans of Crosby as a player. If you look at the teams playing since 2002, you will see why the ratings were in the crapper between now and then.... Devils and Ducks? Lightning and Flames? Carolina and Edmonton? Ducks and Sens? More people watch when the popular teams and popular players are playing. Best of both worlds right now.

You are right. Dicksmack is the guy I quoted so I apologize. You would enjoy playing hockey at this place I know. The refs don't call anything....and I mean they let everything go. Even some blatant high sticks don't get called. I played hockey out there a few times, and as a goalie, you have to be ready to get hit in your crease, hooked behind the skate and upended, and interfered with at least 2 times during the course of one game. Personally, I believe that you can't put a number on how many penalities they should call in a game. Some games are clean. Others require a ton of penalty calls. You think there are way too many PP chances, and I agree and disagree. I have seen some games that are very cleanly played where it seems like the refs are looking for calls to make. Other games need MUCH more penalties called than the refs actually do call. As for your "we just got a goal so we are going to get called next" thought, I don't agree with it. There really is no hard facts to back that up. You remember when it happens to you, but you don't remember when you get 4 power play chances in a row and net 3 goals off them. IMO, it all depends on how the players play and react. After you get a goal scored on you, the other team is trying to get momentum back so maybe the team that scored gets sloppy in their own end. Who knows..... Point is, its not the refs who manipulate the outcome of a game. The players do that. I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. Why some people on this board believe the NHL have it out for the the wings, or love the Pens, Preds, Stars, or Avalanche is beyond me. Especially since we are 1 win away from lifting the cup.

I used your quote because you were incorrect in your 8-4 count in power play chances in an attempt to show referee favoritism toward one team. As for your comments.... I agree with your analysis in your first paragraph. Anyone who breaks their stick by slashing or hitting someone across the back in a cross check should be calls. Truth be told, it is called a vast majority of the time. Obstruction is something that should be called if it is blatant. Setting picks is for basketball, not hockey. If you can't recognize it, then I won't spend the time trying to explain it to you. You are right though, I shouldn't assume that everyone who ******* about the abysmal officiating and lack of consistancy is a total homer. However, it sure sounds like it when you read the people voicing their opinions on this forum, on the radio, and around the watercooler. First off, its extremely rare to hear someone complain about the reffing if their team wins. During the course of a game, its rare that I hear a wings fan agree with a call against their team. In the end, there is no fixing these "consistency issues" you speak of. The game is reffed by human beings, and if we have learned anything, humans are inconsistent. The game is played at such a fast pace. Its impossible the same game will be called the same by every ref out there. Your definition of consistency is totally different than mine, or Bettman's, or Colin Campbells for that matter. Its what makes hockey a very passionate sport among the players and fans. My criticism comes from reffing at the rec league level and hearing these same complaints all the time. No matter what you do, its a losing battle. No matter how much you do to study tape, learn from your mistakes, and work hard at being the best ref out there. The NHL refs do this full time, and in my mind, they are the best refs of any sport out there bar none. Anyone who wants to complain about the reffing should be a ref in hockey already to even know what its like before they talk. Everyone else should just do what the players do. ***** about it, which happens already, and take a seat. The conspiracy theories are just stupid, and pulling numbers out of your ass to try to justify that the calls were going against your team is even moreso.

Incorrect. 16 PIMs for Detroit 10 PIMs for Pitt Total power play chances were 5-3 in the Penguins favor according to the box scores. Helps to read those before you just toss out random numbers to try to justify your point. As someone who watched that game last night, and a Wings fan mind you, I have to agree with the calls the refs made. I probably could have called more against both teams, but I am not out there with the refs shirt on. I have to agree with other posters here that the bulk of hockey fans don't know what obstruction and other hockey penalties are. Heck, some rec hockey refs don't know what what some penalities are. Sometimes its just a defenseman getting body position on someone thats called interference. These NHL refs watch game tape all the time. This is their full time job and they care about it. Some people don't want to see the "ticky tacky" crap called. Oh, only if its against the opposing team. Against our team, that crap better NOT be called. Look at all the times when Holmstrom is shoved in front of the net, or hit in the back, or hit in the back of the legs by the goalie. All that should be called. However, when they are in front of our net and we cross check the crap out of them, that shouldn't be called. As I said before, the winning team or fans of the team don't complain about the reffing. Its always the losing one that *******. Same for last night. Crosby complained about the obstruction.

If anyone remembers 2002, Yzerman handed the cup first to the players who had never won it before. My bet is Zets or Drake first.

Wings fans would never be happy with the reffing unless the wings got 20 power plays to the penguins 2. Only then would it be a well reffed game to the Wings fans.

It will end only until the Wings come back for the 08-09 season. Then it all starts over again.

I have been watching a lot of hockey this playoff season, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that these conspiracy theories are just that. Theories. There hasn't been a single instance of that kind of thing in my recent memory. The referees of the NHL are, in my mind, the best professional refs of all the pro sports. Sure, they make mistakes. They call the game based on their perception of the play that going on in front of them. Armchair hockey fans watching on NBC are going to agree/disagree with the calls they make. However, they aren't in place to break the game. Just to enforce the rules. Once again, I will say that not many wings fans are complaining about the reffing of Game 4. They are worried about the calls of game 5. Now, I wonder why wings fans aren't upset about the reffing of game 4? Maybe because they won? Personally, I find the conspiracy theories and the ref bashing on this board sickening. I bet that 98% of the people here have never put on skates and reffed a single entire game. IMHO, you can't comment on the reffing if you have never done that. As a ice hockey and roller hockey ref, I can tell you its a tough job. You want to make sure that every call is a good one. You want to make sure the calls are accurate. If you see a trip and call it, and then you watch the game tape and it was actually a dive, you feel terrible for missing it. However, its all based on perception. Human beings will always make mistakes or see things differently than someone watching on a television screen or from the stands. Just my .02 cents.