Nightfall

Here is to hoping the talks continue.

Apparently, whats good for the NHL is good for the NHLPA as well. While the NHL was busy lowballing the NHLPA, the NHLPA thought it best to return the favor by dragging their feet until the end of June and then deciding to "gather information" for 3 weeks before delivering a proposal. Neither side had the intention of bargaining in good faith.

This has always been my stance all along. Both sides have sinned in these negotiations, and the resulting lost games are not due to Bettman alone. You can blame both sides pretty equally. What I find pretty outlandish is that those people sitting on their respective sides, either the owners or players, are unwilling to see the sins of their side but are totally open about seeing the faults of the side they are against. I just cannot understand for the life of me how someone can be supporting a side that has not negotiated in good faith from the start. The tactics of both sides really have been frustrating to say the least as well.

Fans were more on ownerships side back in the last lockout.

Ah, what short memories we have. Fans were on the owners side during the first lockout when the players were drawing over 70% of the revenues in the game. The players didn't budge for a cap while the owners insisted. So whos fault was it when a deal couldn't be worked out and a season was lost? The sooner the general public cuts through the bull and the rhetoric and realizes that the lost games are the result of two sides unwilling to work together, the better off we will be.

If you look at every professional sport, the side that is on the losing end of a deal when it expires will strike or lockout. In some instances, the CBA was good for both sides so it was extended. This isn't just in the NHL. The big difference between the NHL and these other sports leagues is the vile hatred they have for each other. There is a history of mistrust and undermining which has chipped away at the relationship between the league and the players. So when the CBA expires, there is no joint talks. There is no working together. There is no compromise. You have two sides who are stuck in a greedy money grab. The players were making over 70% of the revenues before the last lockout. This time around, the NFL and NBA both negotiated to 50/50 splits so it was just natural that the NHL wanted the same split too. I am sure most people would agree that a 57/43 split is only fair if you are making the 57%. If the players were making 43%, how many people would be bitching that the owners were being too greedy? Would the same people who blame the ownership today give blame to the players if they went on strike because they were only making 43%? I doubt it. Will there be another lockout after this one? It all depends on how the deal is working out for both sides. I would say that the odds are good that there would be another work stoppage. The only way this is avoided is if both sides fire Fehr and Bettman, and start fresh. They need new leadership that wants to work towards a common goal. Right now, these two leaders are more about greed, winning, and fighting each other.

Lets dispense will the bull shall we? No employer or employee wants to see customers hating their product. I never said the players strike resulted in lost games. Please point out where I said that. I merely stated that there has been a history of mistrust. It helps to read and understand the person's stance before trying to add a point that was never mentioned in order to make yourself look good. I will give you this, is Bettman a problem? Absolutely. He needs to be fired. However, I also believe that the head of the NHLPA should also be fired. Only in a situation like this could the players and the league meet without Bettman and Fehr, come to a conclusion on many points, and then the heads of the league get together only to have it go south in less than 24 hours. How anyone can give a pass to Bettman or Fehr in this is just out of their freaking mind. A clean slate needs to be enacted before the next CBA expires. Keeping both of these people in power does not bode well for the health of the sport.

Based on the rhetoric, the players want the fans to blame the owners as much as the owners want the fans to blame the players. I don't listen to the rhetoric. I will say this much, hockey has lost more games due to labor disputes because of both the NHL and NHLPA. Remember, during the last lockout when the players were making over 70% of the total revenues, the league was justified in locking them out. Many were on the owners side then. Were the players at fault for not giving up enough back then? I feel that a deal could have been reached if both sides actually cared about the sport and the fans. Instead, greed ruled above everything else. This year is no different from any other lockout year in the NHL. There is great distrust between the sides. Both sides want everything and then some. This isn't the fault of one side or the other in specific, but both sides. I have given up trying to tell people here this because of the bias here on these forums toward the players union. When I look back on all the strikes/lockouts of the last 20 years in the NHL though, its hard to not see that both sides are just not able to handle treating the other side with respect and negotiate in good faith. It was going on back during the players strike and all the way up until today. This next deal will not be the end of these lockouts. You can count on one at the expiration of the next CBA, probably a players strike this time, and you will see lost games. Unlike other leagues, the NFL knows to keep the money train going. The NBA has its share of issues but they worked out a deal with minimal lost games. The NHL still hasn't learned the basics of labor harmony.

If a corporation would be offering me free tickets in a suite where they are paying for everything, then I would. If I was shelling out the cash, then no. Sorry, the NHL lockout really has left a bad taste in my mouth. Before this whole lockout mess, I would have said yes. Now? I would just watch it on TV and spend the money on something else. The players and the league can go choke on it. They will get my cable TV sub money, but I won't be going to any of their advertisers either.

Yup, I enjoy it, but I have a limited amount of disposable income. Right now, my opinion of the NHL and the players is at an all time low. If I don't have a high opinion of something, why would I spend money on it? I am getting more enjoyment out of spending money on watching live college and AHL hockey right now. Now, if my opinion changes and I get the desire to go see games again, thats a different story. Right now, I just can't fathom going to any NHL games in person for a long time. Three years sounds like a reasonable start.

Not the league. "Uncle Gary" does all that. Duh! I disagree. By watching them on TV, I will still enjoy NHL hockey. Not going to games will be a small sacrifice, but one the league and players will feel in the end. Depriving would be me not watching them on TV. I am a hockey nut, and a clean break won't happen.

You are correct. As with any pro sport, the ticket prices just keep going up. Fans who want to go to the games are spending disposable income to attend. This isn't like going to a Griffins game and spending $10-$16. This is going to the Joe and spending 3x-5x that figure depending on where you want to sit. The league isn't going to lower the prices unless people don't go to the games. Attending a Florida Panthers game is roughly half the price of going to a Red Wings game for equivalent seats. My disposable income is going elsewhere for the next 3 years.

If we are going to lose another season, then we may as well get that damn luxury tax then. QFT I was spending about $1000-$2000 on NHL tickets, NHL Center Ice Subscriptions, and merchandise every year. I already promised I am taking the next 3-5 years off from seeing games in person or buying merchandise. The NHL makes a vast majority of its money through gate receipts. The corporate ticket buyers will renew their tickets and buy the suites. Let them spend their money. The NHL and the players aren't worth my financial commitment.

A luxury tax would be both a benefit and a curse. I suspected that Fehr was going to want a luxury tax when he started the process of negotiating. In order to get the luxury tax, the season will be lost. Could everyone deal with another lost season to get a luxury tax? I am sure the uninformed and biased will blame Bettman for the lost season regardless if Fehr is the one who is pushing for the luxury tax to sacrifice the season. Personally, I like the idea of a luxury tax as well.

This really is the most embarrassing negotiation session in the history of pro sports. Fehr and Bettman are out of the room, and progress is made. They come back in, and it all comes crashing down. Both these asshats need to be fired. There is no defending the NHL or NHLPA in these negotiations. There is no defense for greed. There is no defense for refusing to negotiate in good faith. There is no defense for stall tactics There is no defense for pontificating to the media after you don't get your way There is no defense for leaving when your side doesn't get what they want There is no defense for not taking calls from the other side, and there is no defense for leaving a voicemail message turning down a deal Fans have to unite at this stage and be sure to speak with their wallets when the NHL does come back. I am not spending any money on NHL tickets or merchandise for a long time. Both sides can go f*** themselves.

Just for reference....David Backes and other players walked out of the meeting as well. So if you are going to demonize the owners for that behavior, you have to levy the same criticism to the players who disagreed and left too.

Fehr and Bettman are just spokespeople. They are going to take all the blame, but you can look at the 700 players and 30 owners as the real people at fault. They are the ones who want their cake and eat it too. Bettman and Fehr should both be fired just to get new people who are hopefully not complete asshats. There needs to be cooperation. Watching these negotiations is like watching republicans vrs democrats and the fiscal cliff. No resolution, and a lot of pontificating to the media on why they are right and the other side is wrong. Yes, I did read why we shouldn't respond to each other's posts, but I have my anger issues under control. No personal attacks. Already there dude. I will watch AHL and college hockey.

I believe that both sides have pissed on each other many times through the course of this negotiation. The players and owners both have a right to be furious. That being said, their dislike for each other is going to result in the season being cancelled. At this point, I am glad there are other hockey alternatives. The NHL owners and players aren't getting any of my money for a long time. Greedy f***s.

Fehr is pontificating to the media as well. Both sides in this are just sickening. At this point, I believe Fehr has a ulterior motive. He will move to impose a luxury tax after the season is cancelled.

I personally think its unreasonable that a skilled negotiator like Fehr feels that he should be getting a better deal, so he throws the "mediators" trump card out there in order to delay the negotiations. A skilled and good negotiatior would get in there and negotiate, not stall. If the NHL denies his request, then he can come out to the press and pontificate like he has done through this entire process. There is no excuse for either side in this debacle of a negotiation.

I think both Bettman and Fehr were bored while the players/owners meeting was going on, so they took in a movie. It was after they saw this stirring speech when they just had to update their constituents on the negotiations and then injecting themselves into the negotiation process. http://youtu.be/Muz1OcEzJOs

Sounds like another patented "Donald Fehr stall tactic" to me. He has done a great job at this for the last 5 months. Also reports that Backes has left the negotiations.

The two biggest dicks rejoin the negotiations after much progress was made without them. Color me shocked. Sometimes I wonder why some people are behind the owners or players in this debacle. We remove the cancer that is Bettman and Fehr, and progress is made. Those two come back in the room, and that should worry everyone.

So glad I am playing hockey tonight. I don't have to depend on both sides to make a deal for me to actually play the game I love.

Well, if things go to hell now, we know why.