Nightfall

Hell, they are $211 million dollars apart. I say meet in the middle.

Same here, not getting my hopes up at all. i still remember in during the last lockout when a deal was "imminent" but then, the season was cancelled a week later.

The video speaks for itself.

I fixed it for you. While Bettman deserves the criticism, I believe the owners themselves are equally responsible. Yes, I am talking about Mr. Illitch and every other owner of every NHL team. Lets keep that in mind. Its very easy to read the public hate against Bettman. At the same time, every owner is skating away scott free and free of criticism. Read twitter and other social networking sites, and you will see that Bettman is discussed with vile hatred. This is why the owners hired him to be their mouthpiece. People can and should be reminded that when this is over and Bettman is either retained or fired, that the owners do not deserve a nickel of your hard earned money. Neither do the players at this junction. The NHL should fall into even worse shape so they are forced to drop ticket prices and plead with the fans to come back to the sport. The NHL owners and players should really feel like they got kicked in the nuts by the fans after this debacle.

I know a few friends of mine who have. I don't know many who have season tickets though. I have told this story before, but one of my friends has season tickets to the Blackhawks and has had them for 8 years. Before the season started, the Hawks took 1/2 payment up front for the season tickets. This really upset a lot of season ticket holders because of the impending lockout. Now, the Hawks are paying people back every week there aren't games. So every week they get a check for 3-4 games worth of tickets that didn't get played. These are for 4 seats at about $50 per ticket so they get a check for $600-$800 each week. Oh, and if you want all your money back now, the Hawks will do it but you lose your season tickets for next season and there is a waiting list for season tickets now in Chicago. I know if I was in this situation, I would be really pissed off. I believe the biggest problem is that you have more corporations buying season tickets than you have real fans. The cost to go to a game these days is not cheap. The real fans cannot afford to go to many. It is considered to be a luxury. That luxury is one many cannot afford. Besides, watching them on HDTV at just the cost of their cable/satellite is more affordable. Many corporations will not be canceling their season tickets because those tickets are used to bring business in. Hell, if I had season tickets, I would be cancelling in a heartbeat.

Plenty of other hockey to watch. I am watching KHL streams when I can and I am going to more Griffins games. The NHL is a distant memory to me.

I would say he is on the right track. Course, it all depends on how you measure "steal". Players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were steals because those were elite players. If Mrazek comes out and is a solid goalie, he would be considered a steal. Same if he is an elite goalie. Most people only consider it a steal if he is an elite player, but I choose to think of it as a productive player instead. There are very few players like Dats out there. I would be just as happy if Mrazek was an NHL goaltender and had to ride the pine in favor of a more elite goalie for the Wings. I like what I see from this kid, but I am holding my vote until he enters the 2nd or 3rd year in the AHL. Can he be consistent?

https://twitter.com/...262874149498880 Looks like the season is toast. Also, LeBrun says that no mediators will be used in the negotiations. Apparently, they didn't work. They just need to deep six the season now. Both sides can go jump off a cliff.

What both sides needed to do to make this right is to agree to binding mediation. Instead, the players and owners greed will not change the outcome. The mediators will see opportunities to end the lockout, and one side or the other will squash them.

I don't live in the Detroit area, but I have been donating my time to the Griffins Youth Foundation and reffing more youth hockey. My time is just as valuable as money, and as a referee, I can give a Saturday afternoon to ref for free for the Youth Foundation. I am also doing a fundraiser that should bring in $5000 to the Youth Foundation as well this weekend. It has been planned for about a month now. I am tipping a bit more too. I figure an extra little bit to people for what I am not spending on the NHL is fair. Besides, by now I would have attended about 3-4 games anyway.

Yup, and the owners have continued to allow him to carry on with this mindset as someone else has pointed out. So with that in mind, who should take the blame? The mouthpiece of the NHL owners or the owners themselves? I understand the Bettman hate, but every owners should take just as much flak for this. Just think of it this way. Lets say that half of the owners voted for the lockout, who should take the blame for the lockout? Gary, the guy who speaks on behalf of the owners or the owners themselves? The question is an easy one to answer. Yup, sorry to cut you off. You are 100% correct. Mediators were brought in last time and it was not successful. I just hope that both sides are interested in mediation and are willing to go with what the mediators suggest. I don't know if the mediators discussions or recommendations will be made public, but I really think that they should avoid a PR battle. Both sides are working to score points with the public moreso than negotiating in some cases. They really should just roll up their sleeves and get down to work with these mediators like they did during the last bargaining sessions. Keep the public away and get to work. Otherwise, both sides hunger for sound bytes and scoring PR points. That will take over for actual real negotiating work.

Just for clarification, Bettman didn't create the environment. The owners did. He did support it only because the ownership supported it. I understand why Bettman is taking the flack for this, but at the same time there are barely anyone that is able to look deeper into this situation. Yes, Mike Illitch is supporting this lockout. Why are there no fans upset at him? I guess being the mouthpiece means that they are going to take all the flack, but thats ok I suppose. As for firing Bettman, nothing would please me more. Well, firing both Fehr and Bettman would please me the most. What I fear is Bettman's replacement. Sometimes the Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't know. That could be true in this situation as well, especiially if the owners hire in someone who is more draconian than Bettman. Same goes for Fehr, but I believe in this case both sides leaders should be fired. Mediation is non-binding, which means that what the mediator says is just a recommendation. Non-binding mediation isn't something that has teeth in my opinion. Just like back in the last lockout, the mediator put forward some great ideas but one side or the other shot them down. It really is the same as having an informed expert that has no side that is willing to put their opinion and thoughts on the subject.

Did Bettman come up with the rule all on his own? No he didn't. He may have had the idea for the rule, but the owners all voted on it and ratified it. He can't just impose his rule without the owners all agreeing to it. IMHO, the owners have about 60% of the blame in this. Bettman isn't even a "big part". Its like blaming Fehr for the stance the players are taking. Fehr can only go so far.

I have seen the vile hatred for Bettman, but lets be honest here..... Bettman is not the cause of this lockout. You can point the blame to the owners who voted to lock the players out moreso than Bettman. Even if Bettman was canned, then his successor could be even worse. After all, the ownership is going to hire a pitbull, not a poodle. They are also going to hire someone to represent them. Bettman is taking a lot of flack for what the ownership wants. Yes, I believe even Mike Illitch is supporting Bettman because he is tired of seeing his profits getting thrown to teams that can't survive in these crappy markets. He is tired of seeing a $3.5 million dollar profit margin. Hell, Hudler makes more than that. Otherwise, I won't take down my Red Wings stuff. I have been a fan of the Wings since I discovered hockey back in 1994. I just won't fund the players or the ownership by going to games or buying merchandice. The only money they will see is what I pay for in my cable bill to watch them. Hell, I will even go out of my way to watch games on streaming services because I won't buy the center ice package.

If anyone complaining about this thread right now attends a single NHL game in the next seven years, then they are fake raging in here. I know I am going to put my money where my mouth is. No more NHL Center Ice No more buying tickets to NHL games No more buying NHL merchandise The NHL, players and owners, can go f*** themselves.

So you don't agree with Bettman's bargaining tactics and his my way or the highway attitude. Yet when Fehr has the same bargaining tactics and his my way or the highway attitude, you consider it as "standing strong". Yet you say that both sides are being greedy. Hrm...... That will cost a full season of hockey. Thats a high price to pay for the owners to just fire Bettman and then hire in another guy who could be worse than Bettman. After all, firing Bettman won't solve the problem of the owners. These same owners will select another leader who is similar to Bettman probably. If not the same, he will be worse.

I agree. Everyone who stood behind the players and said that their proposals were spot on cannot possibly be against the owners proposals to make whole based on the projected revenues. Hell, the players proposals were based on projected revenue. I don't think basing any proposal based on a projection is really fair, as both sides know that the future is not certain. Which is why when key points of the other sides' proposal is being proposed using "projected revenues", that side balks. The best thing that can happen at this stage is for both sides to take a 2 year break and let the league die.

As I said before, if the shoe was on the other foot and the roles were reversed, the players would be take-take-taking while the owners would be giving. It is a very limited two way street when one side has a far superior deal than the other. Now, how much the side getting the weaker deal should give up, that is up for debate. When the players were raping the owners for 76% of the revenues, and they had to take a giant rollback, people were on the sides of the owners for the most part. I guess 57% is enough to swing things back in favor of players.

Lets put it this way.... If the shoe was on the other foot, and the players were making 43% while the owners were making 57%, how many people would be crying foul if the players went on strike in an attempt to get an even split of revenues? The ownership in that case would not be gaining anything either.

A two week break? No problem. Hell, take a two year break. Screw this league.

Some people just can't stand success I guess. Hell, if I had the opportunity he had, I would be working out and pushing myself to be the best damn hockey player I could. Drinking? Maybe after I turn 21. What a dumbass. I hope he gets his act in gear.

Thats the problem. 75 pages and the lockout is still ongoing. I really can't wait until this is done so I can start engaging others on how Dats scored in the shootout and how Franzen is lazy and he sucks (well, I don't believe that, but I digress.....) I am pretty jaded towards the whole lockout now. I was emotionally involved, but now I just don't care anymore if the NHL comes back.

Ah, you are right. I was more commenting on the overall positivity or negativity of the article though. In one, there seems to be a negative tone, and in the one I linked its more positive.

Then on the flip side, you have reports coming out like this. http://mobile.nytime...le-in-talks.xml So I guess it depends on what you read and who you believe. You have different sources in New York here, both legit news sources, both portraying different types of info. One is totally negative, and the other is positive. I really don't know which one to believe.

Phoenix won't fold. They will just relocate the franchise to Quebec City, Las Vegas, Kansas City, etc.