Nightfall

Mr. Saunders really hit it out of the park on this one. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8619778 I wish I could vote them both out of office.

Hrm....apparently the Griffins twitter had it wrong then. Glad to see McCollum get the win last night then.

It wasn't a discussion, just a question. I would be taking your answer and moving on. You don't have to answer if you don't want though.

Its good to see him doing well in the AHL so far. 5-0 so far since he has joined. I hope he keeps it up, but the team as a whole is playing better in front of him. It wasn't just Mrzaek, but he was a part of it.

The 57% of revenues The contract loopholes The list goes on and on, but I firmly believe that the players have made out very well even with all the concessions they had to take in the last lockout. Hell, the owners were shelling out 76% of their revenues last time to player contracts before the lockouts. So the rollback was huge, but it needed to be. Yea, I agree. I don't think I replied to one of your posts though. If I did, then I apologize. Just out of curiousity though, if Fehr did indeed delay the meetings until 4pm when they were supposed to start at 10am, does that seem right to you? I certainly do not like many things either side has done here, but this action by Fehr just seems childish.

I agree 100%. I have already decided I won't be buying any tickets to any NHL games for a while. I certainly hope other fans do the same thing. With so much being put on gate receipts in the NHL, its important for fans to speak out against the actions of the NHL and NHLPA. The only money the NHL will see from me is what money they get from airing the games on TV and whatever money they get from me going to AHL games. I would rather watch local hockey than support the owners or players of the NHL. I certainly hope other fans follow suit.

I meant the players, but whatever.

Negotiating labor peace in the past does not excuse the gamesmanship that Fehr is demonstrating now. I think it is a no-brainer that Bettman should be fired, but the behavior of the league in these negotiations cannot be excused. Showing up late for meetings, not willing to bargain while last season was ongoing, and so on. The list just keeps going on and on.

Just an FYI that Nyquist played tonight against Peoria.

Bettman and Fehr are not bargaining in good faith. Too much gamesmanship going on between the two. Which is why, when you factor in all of professional sports, the Fehr and Bettman lockouts have cost their respective clubs over 2,000 games combined.

Smith played the entire game from what I remember.

The players were not going to get a better deal. They knew that.

I was at the game and it looked like he took a hard hit. At the same time, he got up and skated off with the trainer. Could be a concussion, but I don't think it was anything with an ankle or leg injury. I think they held him out for concussion testing and such.

I wasn't saying that the CBA was the end-all and be-all deal. I was saying that the players had zero incentive to change it because the deal benefited them the most. If the NHL played hockey this year, then the players would have just sat on the deal and not negotiated at all. Why negotiate a deal that benefits the players the most?

There would be hockey, but no negotiations if that happened. Fehr and the players had ZERO incentive to get a deal done under the last proposal. They would have played under that until the deal wasn't good for them anymore and then they would have stepped forward to the negotiating table.

He played well tonight. I was at the game and thought he was solid. Hopefully he can keep it rolling.

You don't believe that Fehr is withholding information, but you do believe that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players? I believe its a bit of both going on. If Fehr was communicating well, the players would be on the same page. Right now, some players are either out of the loop or there is confusion. I will say that Fehr's group is much bigger, but the players shouldn't be tweeting that they want clarification. At the same time though, both Bettman and Fehr are bargaining with their sides in mind. I don't think that either side is really communicating with their respective sides in the detail that they need to. Still, its the majority that need to be addressed.

Hehe, look at the stats, cup wins, and so on. Osgood was one of the best. Howard is no Osgood.

As good as Jimmy has been the last couple seasons, he isn't an exceptional goalie yet. An exceptional goalie means he has to be consistent. Exceptional would be Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Chris Osgood, etc. Longevity in the league and that kind of thing. I don't look at it as much of rebound control, because every goalie gives up bad rebounds through the course of a game and season. Its the ability to be consistently solid, win big games, and cement yourself as a big game goalie that puts you in the upper eschelon. Jimmy is climbing the ladder, but he is not in the exceptional category yet. Maybe good or great, but not exceptional.

If the players were going to not concede anything, then the lockout becomes the only option. Heck, it wasn't like Bettman hit the lockout button in late June. No traction was made so he locked them out. So if you understand that both sides hold all their cards until there is real pressure, then you should also understand why we are where we are right now. The players would not have negotiated and played under the existing deal for as long as possible so playing wouldn't have been an option either. I do get what you are saying though, but as you said, you can't demonize bettman for locking the players out just based on what you know from negotiations and how both sides hold everything and concede nothing until there is real pressure.

I have never been part of a seriously big negotiation like this, but its hard for me to fathom why there has to be pressure in order to make progress. You are right though, its the nature of the beast I suppose. I just don't like the pontificating for the press while they weren't talking. Now, by them being silent for the press, they are getting down to business. Its a shame they couldn't have done this before damage was done.

I like what I see from him, but its only 3 games. Lets hope he can keep it rolling. One thing is for sure, Mrazek is better than McCollum and Pearce.

I just find it amazing that both sides have spent more time negotiating in the last two days than they have in the last 6 months. Where was this sense of urgency in June/July? Just further proof that neither side deserves your financial support when the sport comes back. If both sides gave a crap, they would have been doing this in July instead of pontificating for the press and acting like spoiled brats. I do hope a deal gets done soon so I can watch the Wings on TV again.

Well, both sides finally met for longer than 2 hours. It took 4.5 months for them to finally sit down and meet for 6-7 hours and then meet again tonight. I certainly hope real negotiations are happening. We don't know because both sides are tight lipped about what was discussed. Still, I applaud both sides for finally sitting down and getting down to brass tax. I hope it continues for the rest of the week or until a deal is done.

To say this means you have some inside information that the rest of us don't have. Care to share this? This is really just an assumption. I don't think it is safe to assume that 6-8 owners are responsible for the lockout, just as it isn't safe to assume they are all behind Bettman. The thing is that we really don't know how the owners voted. All we can do is assume at this point. It certainly would be nice to know who voted for the lockout and who voted against it. You can bet there are some owners who are managing their clubs well that could have went either way with their votes. You don't think that Illitch could have voted for the lockout because he is tired of seeing his profits get sucked away to teams who can't control their finances? I look at it as a tossup at this stage. We have no idea how these owners voted, and to say that its only 6-8 is really just a guess.