Nightfall

Burnside at ESPN just wrote one of the best columns on the NHL Lockout. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8534787/nhl-week-make-break-nhl-legacy The best line in the story though is this....

ESPN did a story on Brodeur actually and the lockout. http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19376/brodeur Well worth reading.

Martin Brodeur has as well.

After reading all three proposals by the players and the latest one by the league, one thing is certain..... None of the proposals are close to 50/50 right out of the gate as was touted by either side. http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19875/donald-fehrs-latest-letter-to-players Even in Fehr's latest letter to the players where he outlines the proposals, the final proposal in which he said the split goes down to 50/50 right away, in reality it does not. Its similar speak like what we heard in the NHL proposal where they touted the 50/50 split but it really wasn't. Right now, both sides are just playing the PR card. I also don't believe that both sides are negotiating in good faith. Especially when the league and the players can't stand listening to the other sides proposals for longer than 15 minutes and meeting for more than 1-2 hours at a time. Its readily apparent to me that these are two sides that don't trust each other. Now you can say this is the fault of the respective sides, the leaders that they chose, or the culture of the players vrs owners. I don't know which it is, but I can say that both sides do not trust each other and there is some dislike between the sides. Firing Bettman and Fehr wouldn't solve the trust issue right away, but it is a start. In the past, these leaders were chosen to get the most for their side and not consider the other side. The leaders of both sides have to be canned in order to bring in fresh blood that is all about working with each other, not against. This should spark a culture change between both sides and assist with future negotiations. As for the issue we have today, both sides have got to pressure their leaders to get into a room and work on a deal. Right now, it seems that both sides are happy just sitting on their asses and letting the season slip away. That should make any Bettman or Fehr fan unhappy.

Craig Custance has a good article on the negotiations so far.

None of these proposals that either side are throwing out there are going to be accepted. It won't be until both sides sit in a room longer than 60 minutes to NEGOTIATE a deal. There are going to be things in any proposal that the other side is not going to see eye to eye with. Which is why you have a negotiation and concessions by both sides working towards the goal of making a deal that works for both sides. I haven't seen that desire by either side. It seems that playing the PR card and complaining is more important than making a deal.

This really is the right way to go. I typically go to 10 games a season, purchase the NHL Center Ice Package, and purchase merchandise. I have already promised that if the NHL doesn't have a full season, which it looks like it won't, then I won't be doing any of those things. Will I watch the Wings on TV? Yes. My cable bill will be the only money I spend to watch the Wings. I just won't spend any money on tickets to nhl games, the center ice package, or merchandise for the next 5-6 years. It will save me at least $1500 a year, to which I will spend that money on something else. Speak with your wallets!

http://espn.go.com/n...-bickering-ways Here is the telling point to this whole situation. I do agree with this assessment.

Yet, through the contracts, Illitch would still be making a profit. You think he is making more or less of a profit now that NHL games aren't being played? The only teams that want the lockout at this stage are the ones that are losing money. You do bring up a good point though, and the only way we are going to know the answer is by talking to Mr. Illitch on these issues. Until then, we are left to guess and speculate. http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19852/cba-talks-not-as-dire-as-they-look Lets hope this is right.

Hell, if anything, I bet Illitch would be voting FOR the proposal, not against. You seem to forget that Illitch is a responsible owner. If anything, the owners voting against the CBA would be the irresponsible ones. One thing we do know is that 8 owners are against these agreements. When you have 20 irresponsible owners, its not hard to find 8 of them.

Yup, lets hope for the best. Thats all we can do. I am disappointed with the NHL at this stage. It doesn't seem to me that both parties are that far off. I don't agree that the NHL should be able to cut current contracts. Pay the players every dime of the deals that the owners and players signed for in the past. At the same time, I am disappointed with both parties for only talking for an hour and then leaving. Get in there and hammer out a deal.

The biggest problem with the NHL is you don't have 23 owners that are like Illitch. As you have pointed out, Bettman only needs 8 owners to side with him. If you had a lot of responsible owners, then these negotiations would have been infinitely easy. In reality though, you have probably 8 owners who are actually smart when it comes to contracts and running their franchises.

You are right, you would have chuckled at your desk and not posted anything. Satire is satire. Either laugh or move along. Don't need to try to imply I was serious and belittle me.

Hrm, seems that a 50/50 split is only guaranteed with a certain amount of revenue growth. I am going to wait patiently to read the proposals before I pass further judgement.

That was meant to be satire. Obviously being so close to the NHLPA, it upset you. I apologize. Oh, but if I would have posted a mock conversation slamming Bettman, you would have jumped on that bus rather quickly. We have yet to see either side's "Best Offer" yet. I believe everyone knew that these offers were going to be rejected. I knew the last NHL offer sheet was lipstick on a pig and it would be rejected. I just hoped that both sides would meet for longer than an hour and not say it was a waste of time.

You are right, it was Fehr saying that he sees no reason to concede anything. However, that obviously was not what was proposed. I want to be the first to post that I stand corrected. Based on what the NHLPA is saying, I am questioning why Gary was that upset. Yes, these are counter offers, but the gap is not that wide anymore. Why would he say that they are extremely disappointed? I guess we will have to wait and see what the proposals look like when they are put on the internet. I believe with the PR blitz, the players union is back in the drivers seat again. I know when I see that 50/50 proposal, with players getting to keep everything that they signed contracts for, I see that as a slam dunk agreement. The players should be paid on the contracts that they signed.

No concessions from the NHLPA at all? Seriously? I can't wait to see these proposals. As of right now, I don't know what to believe. If they are posturing, then they aren't worth listening to. The proof will be in the proposals. I hope the NHLPA posts them.

Its going to be interesting to see what these proposals were. Right now, I don't believe either of these blowhards. Let the PR spin commence. So what the hell does that mean? The proposals weren't bad but they are going to discuss them? I have to take what I have heard at face value so far, and the word isn't too encouraging.

Bettman: I offer 50/50 Fehr: I offer 57/43 Bettman: Wait, didn't you offer us that in your initial proposal? Fehr: Yes, but we are bargaining here. I have a couple other proposals. Bettman: Ah, good. What are they? Fehr: Proposal #2 is 57/43 Bettman: Wait, what is the difference? Fehr: Well, this one is actually 57.5% because I felt like being a prick since you were a prick to us in your first proposal. Bettman: Fair enough, what about your last proposal? Fehr: Proposal #3 is 56.5/43.5 Bettman: A half of a percent difference? Fehr: Well, since you came up from your earlier demands, we thought we would come down a bit. Bettman: Wow. Is that all? Fehr: Yea, see ya.

This is the part that concerns me the most... So, in short, if Fehr has dug in, we are in for a long fight. I hope that he is at least willing to concede something. Otherwise, the season is on deep freeze.

If by "Negotiate" you mean drag their feet during negotiations, not offer counter proposals, and then complain to the press because they are locked out, I agree with you.

The NHLPA's behavior during these "negotiations" has been disgusting. Sure, there is no two ways around it. The owners are at fault for the lowball proposal. The players were the ones who sat around until June before coming to the negotiating table. They spent weeks "evaluating" the first proposal. The point of my "two wrongs make a right" is merely to inform you that the players have had a hand in these failed negotiations. So while you like to mention all of the NHL's skeletons, just be aware that the NHLPA has a fair share of blame.....even if you don't mention it.

In the end, if the fans come out hating the players or the owners for the lockout, how does that benefit hockey? I agree that the NHL got what they wanted, but I don't agree that it was good for the game as a whole.

IMHO, a waste of money. If people come out as hating the league or the players, either way, they are going to hate something about hockey. I don't know if the fans hating one side or against one side is necessarily good for hockey.

In the end though, is the PR factor that important? I mean, we lost a whole season last time. Yet the fans came back. I think everyone is putting too much importance on the PR side of things. PR isn't going to get either side the best deal. Both sides are just manipulating PR by stating to the press what they want and adding a PR spin to the statement. Look at Bettman's PR spin on this proposal. Look at Fehr's PR spin when the first two weeks of the regular season were canceled and he states that they would have negotiated under the current CBA and played the season out. If you believe that either of these things were done for the betterment of the fans, then I have some great oceanfront property to sell you in Iowa. What this does do is forces the NHLPA off of their collective ass and to the bargaining table. The NHL put forward the last proposal, which the NHLPA did a great job of looking at and then not negotiating. What better way to get the players off of their asses than put a proposal out there that is 50-50, releasing all the information to the press, and letting the players react. Sometimes, when one side drags their feet or doesn't want to play ball, the PR card is really the best card to play. Lets see what the NHLPA decides to do. I will be eagerly anticipating their response tomorrow. If its a "drop dead" statement, then the season is lost. If they want to work through certain aspects of the deal, then there may be a chance we see NHL hockey.