Nightfall

I don't believe for a second that Bettman has that much power. The owners as a whole voted to lock the players out. I suppose you think that Bettman went up to the owners and raised their hands for them? Or are you saying that the owners didn't vote unanimously and Bettman is lying? I would assume that the players and Fehr have the same relationship. Fehr and the players say they are united, but I think its much less likely that every player voted to not give into the league and voted to stand their ground. The owners have told Bettman what they want, and Bettman is getting that for them. Same with Fehr. I agree with this.

Used the wrong word there. It should be lockout, but I digress. The players lack of willing to negotiate their share of 57% is a problem. You would think two parties could easily step in and say, meet in the middle? Why not 52%-48% in favor of the players? Then, the owners can give the players earlier unrestricted free agency. As you pointed out, the project growth of the NHL is pretty high. Why don't the players drop to 3%? I am about as balanced as it gets. For as crappy of a deal that the owners offered, its crappy for the players to just sit idly by and not concede anything. The players took the high ground when the owners put forward that crazy proposal, and I commend them for that. At the same time, what every fan of the NHLPA isn't willing to acknowledge is that their side hasn't really conceded anything. In fact, neither side has given ground to the other. Does that seem right to you? I cannot side with a party that has been unwilling to give ground. If the players are going to not give ground, I hope it is because Fehr is going to to institute a no-cap request and be willing to sit the entire season out and then some. Sitting out another season may be worth it if we move to a luxury tax system like in baseball. Let teams spend what they want to spend. No floor, no ceiling, with a tax system at the high end like baseball.

It is tough to argue for the owners due to the horrible proposal they put forward. That being said, while the players proposal was a good start, the simple fact of the matter is that neither side is willing to budge off its original stance. In the world of negotiating, two wrongs don't make a right. Sure, its easy for you and many others here to point at the ownership and say they did wrong, because they did and are continuing to do so. At the same time though, the players have got to be willing to come off their original demands as well. Now, you and others here who are pro NHLPA can say that the players have done that, but all I have seen is their original proposal which was to lower their share to 53% in year 1, 55% in year 2, and then back up to 57% in year 3 with a player option at the same amount the next year. Lack of flexibility, concession, and greed is what caused the strike. The owners feel like they are entitled to more. The players feel that they are entitled to more. The deal that is currently going on right now favors the players and lucrative franchises, but what I don't get is that every owner voted to strike? Are things really that bad in Hockeytown or Toronto? I know those are extreme examples, but I had to add that in there. The sooner the fans realize that there is some fault on both sides, the more willing they will be to accept the lockout for what it was.....a cash grab and lack of flexibility on both sides. Just for reference, Bettman isn't responsible for 3 lockouts. The ownership as a whole is responsible. The owners could have voted differently. The owners could be asking for less. The owners could be more flexible. Instead, they are not. Bettman just represents these owners. He doesn't lock the league out on his own accord.

Hell, both sides are "willing to negotiate". Except that both sides aren't willing to concede anything. NHL wants their rollback. Players want their 57%. So lockout here we come.

Did the Wings force you to pay for your tickets? In Chicago, they forced everyone who bought season tickets to put half their money down already. According to letters, they will reimburse people each week that goes by and the games aren't used. Gotta love those 0% interest loans.

http://video.thescore.com/watch/bloge-salming-and-down-goes-brown-present-the-lockout Haha! We need more of this comedy during the lockout.

So much for the rich franchises doing well under the existing CBA. I suppose they are tired of paying for the small franchises and foolish owners. The ownership is rife with greed and inflexibility. The players a bit less so, but still greedy.

I am actually looking forward to the lockout now. I figure since I am not going to spend money on going to NHL games for the length of the next CBA, that will come to about 8 games per year at $150 per game for 2 tickets. I stand to save at least $1200 a year plus parking, drive time, food, and so on. Screw these greedy morons. The most I will watch will be on TV.

I am assuming you are talking about the NBC Sports Network? Hell, they should be covering it.

Very true. Which is even more the reason why both sides are a fault. They are playing for themselves. Not for the good of the fans.

The point is that we don't know what would have happened. To say that, well, since we are 3 days away and no concessions have been made to this point doesn't mean that it wouldn't have worked with more time is ludicrous. Just the fact that you won't call out the NHLPA for even their lack of desire to negotiate early speaks volumes. I think its pretty much a foregone conclusion that you are willing to blindly believe the NHLPA, even when shown that they haven't been as "on the ball" as you believe them to be. I have to agree with you that maybe it is best that we don't carry on this discussion. We can carry on our merry ways.

I suppose that is the overlying problem. The NHLPA apologists only hear one side of the story. Every comment I have levied at the league about a crappy proposal or being morons have been completely missed by you and other NHLPA fans here because they are right along the lines of what you believe. However, the instant I comment on the NHLPA and how they have done a sucky job, all of a sudden you and other NHLPA fans who have supposedly "read my posts" are all up in arms about how I am for the league and what they stand for. This is common when it comes to other matters as well such as politics. Pick a side and read the news you only want to read because it falls in line with your belief system. This isn't targeted at you directly, but to those who believe I am a fan of the league. Thats the ticket! This should be required reading for those who hate Bettman. The guy is slime, but he isn't the reason for the lockout. Blame all the owners. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8365817/gary-bettman-leading-cba-talks-owners-direction No offense, but only a fool would say that more time is bad when it comes to a negotiation. You are right, no one knows what would have happened, but when the league was ready to negotiate and the NHLPA didn't step up to the table, that went largely unnoticed. To not at least say that it was a bad move by the NHLPA to not start negotiating early and wait until June is telling.

No offense, but by your comments and most others here, I hear zero harsh words when it comes to the NHLPA, but plenty to say when it comes to the NHL. Since you said you are speaking your mind, I would conclude that you are firmly behind the NHLPA, their stance on the economics of the NHL, and their proposals that they have put forward. You are right on one thing though, maybe I have been too harsh when it comes to the NHLPA fans in this thread. I have twisted your words around a couple times and for that I apologize. At the same time though, when I hear NHLPA fans such as yourself comment on how upset they are with the league, it is infuriating to not see what the NHLPA has been doing through this entire process. No flexibility? Waiting until the last minute to negotiate? No concessions at all? Not seeing the overall problem? These are just examples. Fans who are backing the league or the NHLPA would be wise to look at the big picture. In the end, there is nothing wrong with that. Public opinion through this entire process has been pro NHLPA and we the fans can do nothing even if we were for or against one side or the other. All we can do, as fans, is speak with our wallets.

I would be careful when talking about anything that isn't "pro NHLPA" around here. You see, the common theme is that the NHLPA has done everything within its power to prevent a work stoppage. Their proposal was like King Arthur pulling Excalibur from the stone, it was destined to be the solution. Oh, and any fault of the NHLPA is not really a fault at all. Remember, there is no spoon. At least that is the current mentality from many in this thread. In reality, both sides are at fault, with the NHL being more at fault for being pricks than the NHLPA. In the end, neither are willing to budge from their positions. The NHLPA is going to come forward to profess their solidarity, and the owners are going to lock them out. The PR battle has already been won by the players, and the NHL will get a brunt of the insults. Nevermind the facts that you pointed out. The NHLPA has done no wrong to these people, and that is almost as disgusting to me as the initial NHL proposal to the players which was downright insulting and disgusting in its own right. In short, screw the NHL and NHLPA. They don't deserve your loyalty. Then speak your mind on both sides instead of just chirping the typical "ownership's fault" that you are so adept at mentioning. You seem to be speaking option #2 quite adeptly. EDIT: For the record, I believe its 60-40 at fault with the NHL being moreso than the league.

Its beyond me that someone would watch either of those press conferences and think that one side is doing everything in its power to make sure a season starts while the other is totally at fault in these negotiations. I suppose you have to have your lips firmly planted on the ass of the NHLPA to really come to that conclusion.

It certainly would be nice to hear about the details of these proposals. From the way it sounds.....both sides are proposing "my way or the highway" with no concessions. Not really a way to bargain.

After any CBA expiration, all deals are typically off the table. I thought that Bettman said "Sign this, or else we will ask for a 60-40 split in revenues" or something along those lines.

Link? Source? I am trying to find a legit source that says it was an "ultimatum". So far, all I can find are unreliable twitter feeds from people who weren't there. EDIT: This is the closest I have found. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/49008443/ns/sports-nhl/ Not really an ultimatum. Hell, at the end of every CBA, all deals go out the window anyway.

I don't agree that the NHLPA gave a proposal that could be considered to be a "large concession". That concession was just a temporary cut in salary linkage for 2 years and thats it, with levels being where they are today with a player option for the next year. I would call it a "slight concession" at best. Otherwise, I do agree with you. The greed coming from the NHL is disgusting. The lack of negotiating and flexibility from both sides is disgusting as well though.

Of course they are willing to go another year under the current CBA. The current CBA benefits the players and lucrative franchises. If you had 17-18 owners that weren't greedy asses, then the current CBA would be fine. Instead, you have the opposite.

Concessions go far beyond money. The percentage the players are getting is just one portion. Why not offer the NHLPA expanded revenue sharing along with the final $5 million dollars in the cap system a luxury tax? Why not offer the NHLPA arbitration, signing bonuses, and no cap on salaries? Those are just a couple examples, but so far, they haven't offered any concessions. Just as the NHLPA hasn't offered any real concessions either. Why not offer the NHL a 52-48 hard linkage in favor of the players? Why not offer the NHL a entry level contract cap to 3-4 years? Why not offer the NHL a cap on over contract length to 7 or 8 years? From the way it looks, both sides are demanding. The owners are demanding that the players take the salary cuts, the contract limits, no arbitration, and so on. That is wrong. The players are demanding that things stay the same or the hard linkage goes down to 53% for year one and moves back up to 57% in year 3 with a 4th year player option at the same level. How does a temporary change fix this problem? It doesn't. While the player offer was less draconian, its still not the solution. Whats worse is that both sides are posturing and being inflexible. As a fan, I find it disgusting. Just get in the room and work on the deal. I will be doing this when the lockout is announced on Saturday.

The players have offered nothing of great note either, which is disturbing. After Fehr's first proposal, I was hoping he would rise to the occasion and at least put forward an offer that would at least offer some concessions. So far, he hasn't. The owners haven't come down from their unrealistic proposal either. I can't blame one side for this debacle without looking at the other side as well. The actions of both sides are causing this to happen. If neither side is interested in really negotiating, how can they negotiate a CBA?

There has to be some compromise. Depends on what the players propose, but from the way it looks, they are willing to compromise a bit more than the ownership. I would love to see the owners compromise a bit today in order to move things forward. Obviously, I am not holding my breath that there is compromise being given by either side. So far, neither side has proposed anything that could be considered to be a serious compromise. Cutting salaries, dropping arbitration, and limiting contracts by the owners and a temporary drop in player share of revenue but it goes back up to the same levels today are not groundbreaking. Start getting to the meat of the issue guys and get a deal done. As a fan though, you do have a choice. I choose not to line the pockets of the owners or players if they don't come to a deal and there is a lockout. I hope others will follow my example.

The Wings won't have that problem until they fall on hard times.

http://bleacherrepor...-is-not-reached I agree with this 100%. I already canceled my NHL Center Ice recurring subscription. If a deal is not reached, I won't be going to any Red Wings games this season and for the next 5-6 years, and I typically go to 5-8 games a year. I won't be making any road trips to see the Wings as well, as I normally do when the Wings visit the Dallas Stars and I get a chance to visit my cousin and see a game at the same time. ---- How do you get your point across? Cancel your Center Ice package before it automatically renews. Cancel your season ticket package and go to 5-10 games. Get season tickets to a local college hockey team. Stop buying hockey sweaters. Watch playoff games on TV. Save all that money, buy a nice pair of skates, and go skating two or three times a week. The End. ---- Go to 5-10 games? I won't be going to any. Screw those guys. Go ahead owners, initiate a lockout. I won't spend a dime to attend an NHL game or buy NHL memorabilia. The most they will make out of me is watching the Wings on TV. I will save my money and time for the Griffins and college hockey.